Shaws Theatrical and Celestial Subs Remastering Project

[gfanikf]

I was thinking how many Shaw films circulated with prints that had theatrical subs? We can just start a Shaw sub project where people can be given the Celestial Subs (as they are already synced granted the timing is different for an R1 or R3 release) and then type in the theatrical subs. It's a very low intensity project and something people can do in their spare time. Even for full screen prints people can usually do a decent job in guessing the cropped subs.

I figure we can each do ones for films we have access to and just create a database (using megaupload, mediafire, or the like) to store these theatrical subs. I know we would like the companies to do this for us, but it's not always going to happen and I think we have to be realistic about that. Translations cost money and a lot of companies aren't going to do new ones. Yes, Japanese films and anime films get treated better, but we have access to various translations, while they only have fansubs to compare them too.

[HAZ]

I might be able to hook up the theatrical subs for Human Lanterns. I liked the theatrical subs for the films I've seen - Dirty Ho, Disciples, Human Lanterns, 36 Chambers.

[The Running Man]

gfanikf,

This is like the fourth time I've asked you this. Have you told Funimation to hire Chinese translators to redo the subtitles on the Shaw Brother releases?

You're talking to them about extras but mentioned nothing about the subtitles.

Also, there's nothing realistic about expecting crap subtitles on these films. When people start acting that way then companies think that no one cares since there are no complaints about those issues. If a company can afford and have resources to get equipment, find people involved with these films, shoot interviews and make extras there's absolutely no reason they can't have re-translated subtitles for the feature films. It makes no sense.

That's like saying you can build a house but not fix a door.

[gfanikf]

gfanikf,

This is like the fourth time I've asked you this. Have you told Funimation to hire Chinese translators to redo the subtitles on the Shaw Brother releases?

You're talking to them about extras but mentioned nothing about the subtitles.

No, and I'm not planning to as I have no expectations that they will do anything. Anyhow even the "crap" subs have never bothered me or hampered me from watching or enjoying the film

Also, there's nothing realistic about expecting crap subtitles on these films. When people start acting that way then companies think that no one cares since there are no complaints about those issues. If a company can afford and have resources to get equipment, find people involved with these films, shoot interviews and make extras there's absolutely no reason they can't have re-translated subtitles for the feature films. It makes no sense.

When you have to get new subtitles approved by Celestial, who reject them for any reason it's realistic. Also Funimation is simply putting out releases that a previous subdivision was planning to put out. I doubt they got any additional to budget for these releases and therefore they're not going to expand even more money (that comes out of their budget) on new subs or extras.

[The Running Man]

No, and I'm not planning to as I have no expectations that they will do anything.

But you have no problem going out of your way to make sure they have those dubs you like so much and that they include extras? How selfish of you.

All it takes is just telling them just like everything else that you are communicating to them.

Anyhow even the "crap" subs have never bothered me or hampered me from watching or enjoying the film

So these releases should only cater to you? I loath those horrible English dubs on those Shaw Brother films. Should I get companies to not include them then just because it wouldn't bother me if they are not on there?

When you have to get new subtitles approved by Celestial, who reject them for any reason it's realistic.

You have no idea if that is the situation here.

[Killer Meteor]

I agree with Running Man, if the subs can be improved, then by all means the companies should try. The Celestial subs are frequently below par, as are many HK subtitles, and this is yet another example of companies not taking the same effort with a HK film that they would with a Japanese or French film.

Let's face it, if anyone in the US releases Trail of Broken Blade, I do NOT want a dying Wang Yu telling his fiance to "go...eat something."

[chen lung]

Yeah, re-translation of the subtitles is just as essential as other factors (extras/sound/image). Meaning, detail and humour can be lost/misunderstood and I've found there to be English vernacular often inappropriate for the era the feature is set in - hampering the film's seriousness and the filmmakers intentions to project their work as intended. It's unprofessional and continues to misrepresent a genre that's frequently associated with goofiness because people couldn't do their job properly.

As Killer Meteor has pointed out about a film from a respected filmmaker that produced beautiful work, it's not at all right in this day and age to still have that, and it has to stop. Not many people realise the integral part subtitles play.

Media Blasters were aware and acknowledged this, so should others. It's definitely not an aspect to be overlooked:wink2:.

[gfanikf]

Guys, just consider me jaded as hell by the last couple of years with Kung Fu DVD releases and finishing up law school in May and getting ready to take the New York State Bar Exam.

How about this, if someone writes a detailed explanation of the problems and concerns people have with Funimations DVDs, I will try and get them to the production people. Please be detailed, but accessable, not everyone knows these problems front and back like board members here do. Also don't be fanboyish or demanding. If you can emphasis low cost solutions to the issues, so much the better.

Hows that?

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Guys, just consider me jaded as hell by the last couple of years with Kung Fu DVD releases and finishing up law school in May and getting ready to take the New York State Bar Exam.

How about this, if someone writes a detailed explanation of the problems and concerns people have with Funimations DVDs, I will try and get them to the production people. Please be detailed, but accessable, not everyone knows these problems front and back like board members here do. Also don't be fanboyish or demanding. If you can emphasis low cost solutions to the issues, so much the better.

Hows that?

They need to make sure the picture doesn't blur when there's movement on screen. This Shaolin Hand Lock DVD is very disappointing. I don't care if there's no subtitles at all, just get the damn picture right!

[Killer Meteor]

But you have no problem going out of your way to make sure they have those dubs you like so much and that they include extras? How selfish of you.

All it takes is just telling them just like everything else that you are communicating to them.

So these releases should only cater to you? I loath those horrible English dubs on those Shaw Brother films. Should I get companies to not include them then just because it wouldn't bother me if they are not on there?

You have no idea if that is the situation here.

Why don't YOU write to them?

[HAZ]

Not for nothing, but the theatrical subs idea is kinda cool. It's really something to compare the two.

[chen lung]

You can find the superior subtitles on the theatrical trailers as well.

[Asmo]

I might be throwing a spanner in the works here. Some Shaws have played on Australian tv with re-translated subs. I don't have recordings of all that played, but I know Eight Diagram Pole Fighter was definitely re-translated. I need to check the others that I still have.

[gfanikf]

Not for nothing, but the theatrical subs idea is kinda cool. It's really something to compare the two.

Yeah, it's like night and day. I've always wondered who the Shaws employed to do their subs.

[The Running Man]

Why don't YOU write to them?

See, this is why you are so annoying.

You write that you agree with me and then later write a post against me just for the hell of it? What's the matter? Did you realize you agreed with me on something and found out that's not how the rules go in your head?

And for the record pal, I have written to them. Months ago when a Funimation representative posted here on the forum. I asked other people on the forum to write to them as well. Don't know if they did but I did and not only that I got a reply back.

gfanikf sounds as if he might have more direct connections than I do if he can get extras back on those discs. If that is the case, then he should also press on the subtitle issue and possibly bring up the issues with the video transfers of the recent titles. All it takes is just expressing it to them just like the other issues he cares about (Shaw Brother English dubs, extras, etc...).

With all that in mind pal, I return your question back to you. If you agree with the subtitle issue.... then:

Why don't YOU write to them?

[The Running Man]

Yeah, it's like night and day. I've always wondered who the Shaws employed to do their subs.

This whole issue about getting the theatrical subs wouldn't even matter if the subtitles were re-transalted by a professional on these discs like the Media Blasters line do.

If you can see what a difference a better translation could make, how can you not sympathize on quality subtitles being issued for these DVDs?

[chen lung]

I might be throwing a spanner in the works here. Some Shaws have played on Australian tv with re-translated subs. I don't have recordings of all that played, but I know Eight Diagram Pole Fighter was definitely re-translated. I need to check the others that I still have.

That's interesting, thanks for sharing!

When it comes to TV broadcasts, it's certain that subtitles have to be of a good standard to be accepted (that probably forced a remaster), as opposed to just a DVD release where you can do whatever.

[Asmo]

That's interesting, thanks for sharing!

When it comes to TV broadcasts, it's certain that subtitles have to be of a good standard to be accepted (that probably forced a remaster), as opposed to just a DVD release where you can do whatever.

Yeah, that's true. For the few I can recall, they were definitely retranslated. They weren't just touched up versions of the originals. They even translated some signs and actor names (in the introductions).

[HAZ]

Well, the theatrical subs are an interesting historical document. They're original to the release of the film. To say they're superior is tough, unless you speak Chinese, but they're different & are fun to compare.

[chen lung]

Well, the theatrical subs are an interesting historical document. They're original to the release of the film. To say they're superior is tough, unless you speak Chinese, but they're different & are fun to compare.

They maybe original to the release of the film, but that doesn't automatically mean they're worth any less:wink:.

People have said they were unusually high quality.

[chen lung]

Yeah, that's true. For the few I can recall, they were definitely retranslated. They weren't just touched up versions of the originals. They even translated some signs and actor names (in the introductions).

I erm, think you've tapped a potential market aimed at a few of us:tongue:.

[Asmo]

I erm, think you've tapped a potential market aimed at a few of us:tongue:.

Yep, true. Unfortunately they didn't air too many Shaw films and I'm not sure if all were translated. It could be possible to rip them, but it's very hard to work with embedded subs.

[The Running Man]

Well, the theatrical subs are an interesting historical document. They're original to the release of the film.

That's a bit over the top because really the same could be said about every single Hong Kong theatrical sub ever made and the grand majority of those are garbage. The less seen of them the better.

[HAZ]

That's a bit over the top because really the same could be said about every single Hong Kong theatrical sub ever made and the grand majority of those are garbage. The less seen of them the better.

Shaw Brothers did screen these in North America quite widely. The family of a friend of mine owned the local Shaw cinema. The cinematic experience is quite interesting to me & it's fun for me to see things that relate to that experience, no matter how small. Heck, ticket stubs are cool to me. Theatrical subs are a part of that theatrical experience; I guess the Shaw's interest me more than others. I find them interesting to compare to the re-released product. Grammar issues aside, the Celestial subs are more expressive and detailed. Native Chinese speakers have told me so & my crappy Mandarin has given me a similar impression.

[The Running Man]

It sounds like you might have a personal sentimental value to it which is fine for me.

That's not what I meant though. I was talking about as if you meant for one to go out of their way to get those subs on the official DVDs instead of a thorough re-transaltions of the films by a Chinese translator.