Member Shaolin Patriot Posted March 23, 2010 Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 UPDATE!!!! I just got back off the phone with Funimation. I'm going to try and get them the information for whatever other films may have had extras for them. No other titles have been locked in yet. Although most fans would prefer interviews or featurettes, I'd even settle for an original trailer if acquisition rights/expenses get in the way. Even if the OT was unremastered, for the sake of having something more than just the film on the disc. Good luck in your pursuit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Running Man Posted March 23, 2010 Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 Not as long as it has the dub. The best test will be with Hong Kong Godfather since that one can be compared against the theatrical subs (which are quite excellent). I am not sure what you are trying to say. Celestial made subtitles for each of these films and that is what they give to distributors to use if they want to. And sorry gfanikf, while you might like these dubs I only enjoy good English dubbing. And even if these Shaw Brother dubs were well made, the quality of the subtitles is still integral to any release of a film not in English. If you can get in contact with Funimation, you should be telling them to make sure to hire Chinese translators to retranslate the English subtitles, not just about extras which are secondary. In fact, I don't care about extras if the subtitles are the same Celestial crap. They have top-notch translators for their Japanese releases. There is no excuse whatsoever for them not to be applying the same care to Chinese films. Pai Mei, please post up samples from the subtitles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member chen lung Posted March 23, 2010 Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 Not if the transfer is done well. That's the thing - the running time suggests it is PAL>NTSC at PAL speed (rather than NTSC). Not as long as it has the dub. The best test will be with Hong Kong Godfather since that one can be compared against the theatrical subs (which are quite excellent). Yeah, the theatrical subtitles are a good source when available. Although for titles like this, we need to see if they made adjustments right away (from those with the previous subtitles and knowledge of the language). It's annoying since I contacted them and told them that extras were done for these movies and gave them all the contact info needed. I know HKG had at least an interview done for it. I phoned up once as well. Since that and an email, I've not had anything. Disappointing and like you say, annoying. UPDATE!!!! I just got back off the phone with Funimation. I'm going to try and get them the information for whatever other films may have had extras for them. No other titles have been locked in yet. That's good, thanks. I altogether advised them in an email: 1) Present original mono audio for each language before any remixes (unless it's a new dub where it will be a remix - 'Come Drink With Me'). 2) Ensure the correct language is present (or if there's debate/uncertainty, include both Cantonese/Mandarin), also the export (or perhaps US) English dub. 3) Render video progressive for film-based content and interlaced for anything else. 4) Re-translate the English subtitles based on the correct language (it can depend on the film - you'd be best asking). 5) Use seamless branching if there's a version with different length or visuals. 6) For the English dub, include a subtitle track for on-screen text. 7) Scour other editions to see if extras can be acquired - perhaps Celestial have materials that have emerged since a previous release. Extras could include things like: interviews, photo galleries (production/behind the scenes), posters, promotional material (magazines), trailers, credit sequences, deleted scenes. Please be careful there's no video glitches (incidental interlacing where it should be progressive, flashing), and that your 'mono' audio is genuine and not downmixed from the detested 5.1 remixes. Also advised that there's people on the forum that can help, etc. I suppose a re-issue of 'The 14 Amazons' is asking for too much:sad:. Although most fans would prefer interviews or featurettes, I'd even settle for an original trailer if acquisition rights/expenses get in the way. Even if the OT was unremastered, for the sake of having something more than just the film on the disc. Good luck in your pursuit! Yeah, I agree. If there was a genuine problem like Celestial being anal, then I can excuse that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Running Man Posted March 23, 2010 Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 6) For the English dub, include a subtitle track for on-screen text. Like many other Anime/Japanese US distributors, Funimation has always done this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member chen lung Posted March 23, 2010 Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 Like many other Anime/Japanese US distributors, Funimation has always done this. OK, just checking:smile:. Curiously, does this release have such a track? I am not sure what you are trying to say. Celestial made subtitles for each of these films and that is what they give to distributors to use if they want to. And sorry gfanikf, while you might like these dubs I only enjoy good English dubbing. And even if these Shaw Brother dubs were well made, the quality of the subtitles is still integral to any release of a film not in English. I think he might mean in checking for dubtitles. However, it's the subtitles and the film, in Mandarin, that's what'll be checked for reports:wink:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OldPangYau Posted March 23, 2010 Author Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 Well, I did a blind buy of Shaolin Handlock at FYE (about $14 after the sale and FYE discount), and checked it out... while it seems to be PAL-mastered, I can't tell what it is yet... I did the "progressive or interlaced?" check by doing freeze frame stepping. Now, usually there would be four "blended" frames every six frames... but I'd end up seeing a good ten progressive frames before seeing any blending. Yeah, I don't know what it is. I'm currently "performing an autopsy" on the DVD in my computer. If anything, judging by the SB promo at the beginning of the DVD, it looks like 14 Amazons and Shaolin Hand Lock might've been the only "victims" of PAL-to-NTSC, as only they showed blurs while the others (Opium/Kung Fu Master and Hong Kong Godfather) did not. EDIT: I have figured it out... it's a 24p transfer... of a non-converted PAL source. As I was checking out the video in TMPGEnc, I noticed that the frames that looked blended on the TV were "pre-blended" rather than appearing interlaced in the computer. So that being said, I've never seen a transfer like that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member chen lung Posted March 23, 2010 Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 Thanks OldPangYau. I'm going to wait for more information (subtitles, etc) before I make contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member HAZ Posted March 23, 2010 Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 There is an interview with Richard Cheung Kuen that was supposed to have been included with the BCI release of HK Godfathers. It would be amazing if it was part of the funimation release. If you need a lead on it, I'm glad to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member gfanikf Posted March 23, 2010 Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 There is an interview with Richard Cheung Kuen that was supposed to have been included with the BCI release of HK Godfathers. It would be amazing if it was part of the funimation release. If you need a lead on it, I'm glad to help. I mentioned that one to them. I'm also getting in touch with Big Mike to see what else he may have done with BCI. I should be getting review copies, by the end of the week, but I suspect all the important info should be discerned by then. Thanks Pang! It's nice to know that potential these are just two goofed ones (and not really that badly) and the next ones should be normal. I don't think people should go in expecting to much (besides not having shit transfers or the like). I got the impression that this is Funimation releasing stuff that Narrave already paid for. That said, I wouldn't rule out anything yet. Just don't set ones hopes too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OldPangYau Posted March 23, 2010 Author Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 I mentioned that one to them. I'm also getting in touch with Big Mike to see what else he may have done with BCI. I should be getting review copies, by the end of the week, but I suspect all the important info should be discerned by then. Thanks Pang! It's nice to know that potential these are just two goofed ones (and not really that badly) and the next ones should be normal. I don't think people should go in expecting to much (besides not having shit transfers or the like). I got the impression that this is Funimation releasing stuff that Narrave already paid for. That said, I wouldn't rule out anything yet. Just don't set ones hopes too high. No problem! I now checked out the Funimation promo from the beginning of the DVD, and I can confirm that only the clips of Shaolin Hand Lock and 14 Amazons had the blurring while Hong Kong Godfather and Opium/Kung Fu Master looked "in the clear". While OATKFM should've been progressive since the BCI transfer was as well, HKG was up in the air. Also, there was enough footage to tell as the blurring occurs several frames per second. Hopefully for future DVDs they will indeed convert the PAL masters properly to NTSC, as it basically requires proper manipulation of the number of frames that appear per second. It's as simple as this, with PAL, you're seeing 25 frames/pictures of visual information every second. With NTSC, it's 24 (technically 23.976) frames/pictures. So with simple math, it's just one less "picture" shown every second, and that frame moves into the next second upon conversion. By the way, for time conversion, this is the "magic number": 1.0427093760427093760427093760427 Yeah, that's right So for a movie that's 90 minutes PAL, to get the NTSC runtime, this is what you do: PAL runtime X 1.0427093760427093760427093760427 = NTSC runtime So in this case: 90min X 1.0427093760427093760427093760427 = 93.84384384384384384384384384378 min However, to be more accurate when converting the video, it's best to calculate by frames rather than seconds. So that being said, 90 minutes exactly for PAL would be 135000 frames. So... 135000 frames X 1.0427093760427093760427093760427 = Approximately 140766 frames And there you have it! Also, if anybody wants, I can post 24p clips from the movie and/or the promo via MegaUpload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OldPangYau Posted March 23, 2010 Author Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 By the way, I just noticed that Funimation included a "Hong Kong Connection Hit List" checklist for the Shaw Brothers films in the case. If it's anything to go by, this may be the order of releases: 1. 14 Amazons 2. Shaolin Hand Lock 3. Opium and the Kung Fu Master 4. Hong Kong Godfather 5. Invincible Shaolin 6. Life Gamble 7. Shaolin Prince 8. The Duel 9. Shaolin Rescuers 10. Soul of the Sword 11. Bastard Swordsman 12. Return of Bastard Swordsman 14. The Supreme Swordsman 15. The Sword of Swords 16. The Lady Hermit Two a month maybe? We have 14A and SHL this month and OATKFM and HKG next month. Guess we'll see if Invincible Shaolin and Life Gamble show up in May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member chen lung Posted March 23, 2010 Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 EDIT: I have figured it out... it's a 24p transfer... of a non-converted PAL source. As I was checking out the video in TMPGEnc, I noticed that the frames that looked blended on the TV were "pre-blended" rather than appearing interlaced in the computer. So that being said, I've never seen a transfer like that before. Could be a delayed kind of conversion - the blending isn't evenly distributed within the second? And thank you for your work! I don't think people should go in expecting to much (besides not having shit transfers or the like). I got the impression that this is Funimation releasing stuff that Narrave already paid for. That said, I wouldn't rule out anything yet. Just don't set ones hopes too high. It's bizarre why these two are faulty, yet the others maybe fine. We should definitely ask as it's disappointing. I wish they would maintain contact with the authorities on these titles. I hope they do reissues (even privately). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OldPangYau Posted March 23, 2010 Author Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 It's bizarre why these two are faulty, yet the others maybe fine. We should definitely ask as it's disappointing. I wish they would maintain contact with the authorities on these titles. I hope they do reissues (even privately). Glad I could help Well, in retrospect, let's not forget Media Blasters took three tries before getting them right, with Heroes Two being interlaced (albeit at the proper film speed) and The Master being non-anamorphic. So maybe this is Funimation trying to get it right in the beginning. If you want, as mentioned earlier, I can upload a scene from SHL onto MegaUpload and you can download it to see exactly what I'm talking about. I may still buy 14 Amazons before the end of the week (while it's also on sale at FYE!) just for completist purposes if they get the rest right. I REALLY hope they get The Duel right, as it's a family favorite... my dad saw it in theaters, recorded it off of "black belt theater", and I got the crappy "Duel of the Shaolin Fist" cut on VHS when I was around 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Running Man Posted March 23, 2010 Member Share Posted March 23, 2010 I mentioned that one to them. I'm also getting in touch with Big Mike to see what else he may have done with BCI. What about the subtiles? Here is my post again: http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/showpost.php?p=120057&postcount=27 OldPangYu, can you please post up samples of the subtitles? By the way, I just noticed that Funimation included a "Hong Kong Connection Hit List" checklist for the Shaw Brothers films in the case. If it's anything to go by, this may be the order of releases: It is most likely the order since Opium and Hong Kong Godfather are the next ones up according to the pre-order dates on amazon.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member chen lung Posted March 24, 2010 Member Share Posted March 24, 2010 Well, in retrospect, let's not forget Media Blasters took three tries before getting them right, with Heroes Two being interlaced (albeit at the proper film speed) and The Master being non-anamorphic. So maybe this is Funimation trying to get it right in the beginning. MB did titles interlaced because they found it was a higher quality encode than progressive (maintaining visual clarity over projection), but opted for progressive after that. The non-anamorphic thing was what only Celestial had. MB's policy is not to upconvert to anamorphic, despite a few saying it was possibly to create a decent transfer. It's a hard one if you want to maintain the quality, but also want better optimisation on displays - Celestial are the clowns to blame for that:wink:. If you want, as mentioned earlier, I can upload a scene from SHL onto MegaUpload and you can download it to see exactly what I'm talking about. Sure:smile:. I may still buy 14 Amazons before the end of the week (while it's also on sale at FYE!) just for completist purposes if they get the rest right. I don't think I'll buy the faulty ones, but hopefully wait for a reissue (I know that's probably unlikely, but we'll see first anyway). I gather it's difficult for Rojas to frequent all the forums relevant to the brand, but I was told there's a team working on the Shaws (my email was passed onto), so it could be better to have contact with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Pai Mei Posted March 24, 2010 Member Share Posted March 24, 2010 Boy Running Man, you can be pretty demanding. But I guess I'll forgive you... so here you go. Here is the dialog between the characters that takes place at the beginning of the film after the intro: Tsung Hua: Why didn’t you engage the enemies? Fan Mei Sheng: Most of our warriors were killed. We are the few spared. Haung Chung Hsing: General, the enemy is about to cross the border. Guards: -- General! --General! Tsung Hua: Leave me alone! Guards: -- General! --General! Tsung Hua: You two, go back and ask for more men. I am the general and I must stay behind. Guards: -- General! --How about you? Tsung Hua: It is my duty to guard the border. Live and let die. hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member HAZ Posted March 24, 2010 Member Share Posted March 24, 2010 Hi, Are they DVD-5's or DVD-9? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Pai Mei Posted March 24, 2010 Member Share Posted March 24, 2010 They are DVD-9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Pai Mei Posted March 24, 2010 Member Share Posted March 24, 2010 Thanks OldPang Yau for figuring all that complicated stuff out. Like you I think I’ll go ahead and buy the other DVD (Shaolin Handlock for me). Even though these are flawed, I really don’t believe Funimation will rerelease this as a corrected version. In my opinion, the video quality is superior to that of Image Entertainment. Also, I don’t see any sign of Funimation putting these out on Blue any time soon either. My main complaint is that they didn’t put in any extras on the disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fang Shih-yu Posted March 24, 2010 Member Share Posted March 24, 2010 I see on the Funimation packaging that it's a Navarre company, as was BCI. Has this always been the case? If so, why couldn't leftover "extras" that would've been on the BCI/Shaw DVDs make it to the Funimation/Shaw DVDs? If upcoming releases will only have the movie and language options, that'll mean the newly-reissued "Life Gamble" and "Opium and the Kung Fu Master" will not contain "extras" featured on the BCI discs, it seems. Hold on to your BCI versions for dear life!...As for my first viewing of "The 14 Amazons": better than expected! Lily Ho makes her role work, but she's NO boy!! She's so obviously a...woman, why not write her part as being the youngest WOMAN there?...Anybody notice Fan Mei Shing carrying around two axes like he did when he was in "The Water Margin"?...Amazing special effects, too; they're on a par with the Lyendecker brothers' work on Republic serials! Overall, it's quite the epic, and often outdoes "The Water Margin" by spectacles like the "human bridge"! Bravura film-making.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Running Man Posted March 24, 2010 Member Share Posted March 24, 2010 Boy Running Man, you can be pretty demanding. But I guess I'll forgive you... so here you go. This sounds demanding to you? Pai Mei, Please write up samples from the subtitles. This is extremely important factor . We want to know if Funimation has retranslated the subs or kept the bad Celestial subtitles. This would be most appreciated. Uh... okay? Anyway, could you check if those subtitle lines match the English dub by any chance? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member chen lung Posted March 24, 2010 Member Share Posted March 24, 2010 I see on the Funimation packaging that it's a Navarre company, as was BCI. Has this always been the case? "Case" being the operative word:tongue:. According to Wikipedia, it has been since 2005. If so, why couldn't leftover "extras" that would've been on the BCI/Shaw DVDs make it to the Funimation/Shaw DVDs? If upcoming releases will only have the movie and language options, that'll mean the newly-reissued "Life Gamble" and "Opium and the Kung Fu Master" will not contain "extras" featured on the BCI discs, it seems. Hold on to your BCI versions for dear life!.... They may not have bothered, despite Gfanikf's calls with them. I imagine we may find out more about this and other issues shortly. We can compile them into a list and ask them. You've got a point about the extra-filled BCI DVDs. For 'Life Gamble', it (bizarrely) looks zoom-boxed compared to other editions (perhaps 'Opium' has this problem too and can we have a comparison?). Would be good if that was fixed. Plus, the inclusion of the English dub that was unusually not included. For 'Opium', there's a video glitch in which the image has a light grey tint for a few seconds that needs sorted. It seemed to look quite a soft remaster, but that maybe down to Celestial. Both I'm sure will need de-interlacing where applicable in the extras section for film-based content, and re-translated subtitles. I'd be curious in a comparison between other editions of the first two Funimation titles to see if this zoom-boxing issue is apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Pai Mei Posted March 24, 2010 Member Share Posted March 24, 2010 This sounds demanding to you? It’s not so much how you asked, it’s the fact that you asked three times before I even got off work so I could go home and check the subs for you. Anyway, here are the subs and dubs: Subs: Tsung Hua: Why didn’t you engage the enemies? Fan Mei Sheng: Most of our warriors were killed. We are the few spared. Haung Chung Hsing: General, the enemy is about to cross the border. Guards: -- General! --General! Tsung Hua: Leave me alone! Guards: -- General! --General! Tsung Hua: You two, go back and ask for more men. I am the general and I must stay behind. Guards: -- General! --How about you? Tsung Hua: It is my duty to guard the border. Live and let die. Dubs: Tsung Hua: Why aren’t you fighting with your men? Fan Mei Sheng: Our regimens have been wiped out. We’re the only ones left now. Haung Chung Hsing: That’s right; the enemy has broken through our lines. Guards: Marshal! Marshal! Tsung Hua: Let me go! Let me go! Guards: Marshal! Tsung Hua: General, listen to me now. Report back to the Grand Duchess. Guards: But sir, what about you? Tsung Hua: I cannot leave here. My job is to guard the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member vengeanceofhumanlanterns Posted March 24, 2010 Member Share Posted March 24, 2010 Jesus Pai Mei!!! Hop to it lets go! Very accomodating of you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted March 24, 2010 Member Share Posted March 24, 2010 Well, I did a blind buy of Shaolin Handlock at FYE (about $14 after the sale and FYE discount), and checked it out... while it seems to be PAL-mastered, I can't tell what it is yet... I did the "progressive or interlaced?" check by doing freeze frame stepping. Now, usually there would be four "blended" frames every six frames... but I'd end up seeing a good ten progressive frames before seeing any blending. Yeah, I don't know what it is. I'm currently "performing an autopsy" on the DVD in my computer. If anything, judging by the SB promo at the beginning of the DVD, it looks like 14 Amazons and Shaolin Hand Lock might've been the only "victims" of PAL-to-NTSC, as only they showed blurs while the others (Opium/Kung Fu Master and Hong Kong Godfather) did not. EDIT: I have figured it out... it's a 24p transfer... of a non-converted PAL source. As I was checking out the video in TMPGEnc, I noticed that the frames that looked blended on the TV were "pre-blended" rather than appearing interlaced in the computer. So that being said, I've never seen a transfer like that before. Sounds odd...perhaps its progressive PAL-NTSC? Not promising... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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