Vague first review of Dragon Dynasty's DVD of The Killer

[OldPangYau]

Here it is:

http://hkfilm.net/dvdrevs/killer.htm

Kinda just... well... glazes over everything. Apparently it's in mono, which is at least one plus. Doesn't say anything specific about the video, like if it's a proper progressive scan transfer.

Meanwhile, nothing from the blu-ray version yet... I'm really trying not to get my hopes up about the blu-ray after 36th Chamber.

[Guest Markgway]

Is that a review? I hadn't noticed....

[Neil Koch]

Sorry if there isn't enough technical info for you, but honestly, I don't have the time or interest to go that much into detail for DVD reviews, and the majority of the audience for my site doesn't care anyway. Mostly they are just thumbnails to let people know if they are shit or not.

[OldPangYau]

Sorry if there isn't enough technical info for you, but honestly, I don't have the time or interest to go that much into detail for DVD reviews, and the majority of the audience for my site doesn't care anyway. Mostly they are just thumbnails to let people know if they are shit or not.

Well, it's just that with Dragon Dynasty's current "issues" (mainly with the disasterous 36th Chamber blu-ray), we don't know what to expect in the technical department from them anymore. Then again, even if the DVD is progressive, the blu-ray could inexplicably be 1080i again.

[Neil Koch]

Point taken. I don't have the HKL version to confirm, but it looks like this DVD uses their source elements, down to almost the same menu screens.

[OldPangYau]

Point taken. I don't have the HKL version to confirm, but it looks like this DVD uses their source elements, down to almost the same menu screens.

That's the way it seems, but even an unofficial "DVD author" such as myself can take a PAL transfer, such as any of HKL's, and convert them into proper 24p NTSC transfers. Now, as for where the HD master of The Killer is coming from... that has me a tad concerned. If it's just an upconvert, I'll be pissed. Seriously, there are three ways they can cock this up:

1. PAL-to-NTSC interlaced 1080i transfer (see 36th Chamber of Shaolin blu-ray for example)

2. Proper NTSC/film-speed transfer, but 1080i/30frames per second.

3. 1080p transfer, but created from a standard definition source (see any of the Kam and Ronson Police Story or Once Upon a Time in China blu-rays for examples)

Didn't Fortune Star create an HD master of The Killer?

[The Running Man]

Point taken. I don't have the HKL version to confirm, but it looks like this DVD uses their source elements, down to almost the same menu screens.

Wow, just those two screen shots alone show clearly that the DD menus are a clear lift of the HKL DVD. I mentioned this in another thread, but on their Return to the 36 Chamber DVD the HKL trailer plays, intact complete with the "HKL" logo at the end. Bizarre really.

If that is the case, I wonder if they also took the subtitles from the HKL DVD which if they did would be fantastic.

Neil Koch, I sent a PM asking if you can confirm at least the names as they are in the subs. You think you can do that?

[Neil Koch]

I'm at work, so I will do some more screen caps when I get home.

Danny Lee is called Li and Chow Yun Fat is called Jeff. I don't remember if they used the Dumbo and Mickey Mouse nicknames offhand.

I did notice that the subtitles have better grammar than the Fox Lorber version, and there are some parts that are subtitled in DD's version that weren't in the FL one, such as the PA announcer before the dragon boat race.

I'll see if I can get some more technical info about the video (FPS, etc.) as well. Does anyone know if there's an option to see that sort of info on PowerDVD or VLC?

[The Running Man]

Chow Yun Fat is called Jeff.

Then the subtitles are based on the old and inaccurate translations.

Bizarre. They had the HKL DVD to take from and they specifically did not take the single greatest feature of that release (the excellent English translation). I suppose they wanted to remain consistent with their poor history of having low quality in the subtitle department (among other things).

No sale for me.

[OldPangYau]

I'll see if I can get some more technical info about the video (FPS, etc.) as well. Does anyone know if there's an option to see that sort of info on PowerDVD or VLC?

I think PowerDVD may give tech info if you set it up a certain way... haven't used it in a while. Also, if it's 106 minutes (as it supposedly says on the box) and not 110 minutes, then that right there may be a sign.

[Neil Koch]

Then the subtitles are based on the old and inaccurate translations.

Bizarre. They had the HKL DVD to take from and they specifically did not take the single greatest feature of that release (the excellent English translation). I suppose they wanted to remain consistent with their poor history of having low quality in the subtitle department (among other things).

No sale for me.

Okay, sorry... long week at work and I haven't had enough beer yet.

CYF's character's name is called Jong or Ah Jong in the subtitles, and John in the menus.

The nicknames are Small B and Shrimp Head.

This is the info I could find for the video: MPEG-2 anamorphic widescreen 720x480 at 29.9 f/s at an average bitrate of 5.56 mb/s, with a running time of 1:46:18. Couldn't find an option to see if it's progressive or interlaced, sorry.

I put up a page of screen captures here:

http://www.hkfilm.net/dvdrevs/killer2.htm

[Killer Meteor]

I think the HKL was 146min too, which suggests PAL-NTSC transfer

Checked a few records: HKL is 146, Criterion 150. Therefore, DD is PAL-NTSC.

Idiots.

[OldPangYau]

This is the info I could find for the video: MPEG-2 anamorphic widescreen 720x480 at 29.9 f/s at an average bitrate of 5.56 mb/s, with a running time of 1:46:18. Couldn't find an option to see if it's progressive or interlaced, sorry.

For those sensitive to harsh language, please leave this page now or pass this post. What will follow is extremely vulgar. *clears throat*

COCK SUCKING MOTHER FUCKING GOD DAMN PIECE OF FLYING MONKEY SHIT BRAINDEAD BRAINLESS HOPELESS DICKLESS DUMBASS SHIT FOR BRAINS ASSHAT PRICKS!

*gasps for air*

Thank you. If this kind of language is not permitted, please inform me, and I'll remove it right away. But you all can otherwise understand my anger.

So great, their DVDs are becoming no better than PanMedia. In other words, copy a PAL DVD and half-ass an NTSC version out of it. The blu-ray will probably have "both evils" and be a 1080i upconvert from a PAL SD source... that would be the ultimate disaster.

While Return to the 36th Chamber had a proper progressive scan transfer, it's now entirely possible that Return of the One Armed Swordsman may not get one... what slivers of faith I had left have been completely obliterated.

[Guest Markgway]

I think you mean 106m not 146m.

Yep, PAL-to-NTSC, because the correct run time is 111m.

I wonder how the BD will be? My hopes are set accordingly low.

I'm sorry but "asshat" is unacceptable. You crossed a line, buddy, and you know it!!

[OldPangYau]

I'm sorry but "asshat" is unacceptable. You crossed a line, buddy, and you know it!!

So everything else was acceptable then? Seriously, I'm terrified of what the blu-ray will look like. While 36th Chamber was PAL-to-NTSC, it technically was still from an HD source. In this case, I have a BAD feeling they just took the HKL DVD, jacked it up to 1920x1080 resolution, and called it an HD transfer. That would surpass the Kam and Ronson Police Story and OUATIC blu-rays for pure shit transfer.

[The Running Man]

Wow. I went from being very disappointed, to being very impressed to being very disappointed again.

From what you say and have shown Neil Koch, the subtitles look like they were based on the HKL ones and improvements might have been made. "Small B" would be exactly what he says in the movie. I'm very impressed, even more considering this is from Dragon Dynasty.

However, the running time is PAL running time indeed. Seeing how this is a disc with much content lifted directly from the HKL release, I wonder if the transfer is as well.

Since the transfer is a bad PAL to NTSC conversion, then that still means no sale from me despite what seems to be good news on the subtitles.

Thanks for getting that extra info Neil Koch.

[The Running Man]

One other thing:

I remember someone posted this that was DD's response from Twitter to the initial announcement that The Killer was going to be PAL:

"Correction - the KILLER master is HD, not PAL. This is the last time the social media guy gets to answer a technical question..."

I guess it was his "last time" because he told the truth.

[Rhythm-X]

If the master was 1080i@50Hz, then it's not technically a PAL to NTSC conversion. It's just really, really similar to one. Downscaling to 480i, it's probably indistinguishable from a PAL to NTSC conversion. But 1080i@50Hz isn't PAL (576i@50Hz) any more than 1080i@60Hz is NTSC (480i@60Hz).

"Correction - the KILLER master is HD, not PAL. This is the last time the social media guy gets to answer a technical question..."

This would be true... but it's truth presented in the most deceitful fashion possible. The social media guy was wrong, but in practice he was saying something closer to the truth than the guy who was actually not lying, though he was not lying only by virtue of a technicality. What utter assclowns.

[Macho King]

Those screens looks pretty good. Thats the best I've seen The Killer look. And how about that? The subs actually improve on the HKL's! If the Blu-ray is anything but 1080p, the Macho one will be picking up the DVD instead.

[Rhythm-X]

If the Blu-ray looks like 36TH CHAMBER, I'll either be waiting for a native 1080i50 Blu-ray to surface in the UK or I'll just pick up the old HKL disc used. If it's going to be 25fps I'm going native with it. What I won't be doing is dropping coin on a frame blended 25fps to 30fps converted transfer. There's no technical reason for them to be doing this. I think they hired Stiller66 to run Dragon Dynasty when the HKL guys left. I'm not even joking.

[Ronin]

Early reports seem to suggest that the DD The Killer blu-ray is another botched 1080i transfer:

Asian Blu-Ray Guide

I can't even pretend to be surprised or angry anymore.

[The Running Man]

Further information confirms that the source of the video on the DD release is not from HKL despite DD using their menus, trailer and some extras from the HKL DVD. Just like their Hard Boiled DVD they are using the master from Atlas, which uses the international print meaning all the titles are in English only. And just like their Hard Boiled release, it is inferior to the German DVD that uses the Atlas masters, except that it's even worse because of the PAL based transfer on this one.

For the record, the German DVDs that use the Atlas masters for Hard Boiled and The Killer are considered by many to be the best video transfers of those films up to this point.

[OldPangYau]

Further information confirms that the source of the video on the DD release is not from HKL despite DD using their menus, trailer and some extras from the HKL DVD. Just like their Hard Boiled DVD they are using the master from Atlas, which uses the international print meaning all the titles are in English only. And just like their Hard Boiled release, it is inferior to the German DVD that uses the Atlas masters, except that it's even worse because of the PAL based transfer on this one.

For the record, the German DVDs that use the Atlas masters for Hard Boiled and The Killer are considered by many to be the best video transfers of those films up to this point.

Sooooo... it's basically a Frankenstein DVD? This is just too damn bizarre. Whatever happened to DD's deal with Fortune Star? They had an NTSC master to work with!

[The Running Man]

It has to be an international rights issue. The Fortune Star transfers for The Killer, Swordsman and the A Better Tomorrow films for example were only used in Asian territories. All other releases were sourced from Atlas.

[Fist Of Boss]

COCK SUCKING MOTHER FUCKING GOD DAMN PIECE OF FLYING MONKEY SHIT BRAINDEAD BRAINLESS HOPELESS DICKLESS DUMBASS SHIT FOR BRAINS ASSHAT PRICKS!

wow........