"Shinjuku Incident(Jackie Chan)" opened last Friday in select U.S. theatres

[cultlabs]

I posted a few interviews regarding the movie with Chan and Wu on our Myspace blog:

Shinjuku Interviews

[cultlabs]

The Shinjuku Incident Blu-Ray and DVD are out this week in the UK.

Here's a review from 24 Frames Per Second

[dionbrother]

I actually enjoyed SHINJUKU. It was what he was trying to do with CRIME STORY, but didn't have the guts to do in the early 90s:completely break from his normal screen persona.

But keep in mind, I love crime movies, and this is a good crime film covering an underworld rarely exploited in film as far as I know. It is not a good "Jackie Chan" movie because there is no martial arts whatsoever. Jackie plays a character close to his age, and seems to be trying for more of a Charles Bronson/Lee Marvin persona...tough guy-character actor. I'd rather sit through this again than SUPERCOP or ACCIDENTAL SPY.

[The Running Man]

Crime Story is a bigger departure for a character in Jackie Chan than Shinjiku.

In Shinjiku Jackie is more or less a happy go lucky and hard working kind of guy that gets involved with the wrong kind of people and a whole mess of trouble. That's pretty much the kind of guy he's known for playing. The only real difference is the kind of situations he finds himself in are much more violent than usually seen in his movies and that one scene he pays for a prostitute.

I don't see much of this "Charles Bronson/Lee Marvin persona" in Shinjiku but see it plenty in Crime Story. Add to that, his character is having a mental breakdown and is constantly on edge in that film. I can't think of another Chan movie where he plays a character like that. The closest are in the first two Police Stories but those moments were only in spurts (and something that Stanley Tong missed out on including in his Police Story sequels).

I wanted to welcome Shinjiku Incident with open arms. Unfortunately I found it to be poor due to a bad script, Daniel Wu's acting, sub-par direction from a director who has done way better, etc...

[dionbrother]

I disagree, because in CRIME STORY you still get the prepostrous Jackie Chan fight scenes that looked like outtakes from MIRACLES. CRIME STORY was about 90% of a breakaway. But he just couldn't risk not including obligatory fight scenes.

He may be the same old underdog, but he doesn't win in the end, and he never does his usal hammy "forget the movie, look at me" routine that seriously hurts the uncut POLICE STORY.

Have you seen Bronson in SOMEONE BEHIND THE DOOR or even VIOLENT CITY? Checked out Marvin in POINT BLANK? They don't play super bad asses in those movies. They play tough guys who are losing it. You can easily parallel those performances with what Chan does in SHINJUKU.

[The Running Man]

Funny you mention the action scenes in Crime Story because even those are a big departure from Jackie. They aren't directed or even choreographed the same way. You don't see any of the wide angles that he frames his fight scenes in that are held nicely in place. Crime Story's got hand held shots and wilder angles that focus on brutality. The choreography itself is rougher and gritter than his usual mark. You see Jackie tripping, falling, and doing movements in a messy style which would normally be executed with grace, precision and perfect accuracy in context of the choreography.

Just because he doesn't "win in the end" doesn't change the rest of the make up of the character. That was just the course of the story, which I don't think was very good. But it doesn't bother me in the slightest that Jackie is playing the same kind of character only in a "R rated" world in Shinjiku. It's everything else in it that fails for me.

Instead of crap like this or New Police Story, Jackie should be aiming for stuff like he did in Crime Story. I would've thought Derek Yee would've been a shoe-in but I guess "Protogé" wasn't a bad stroke of luck but instead the start of a bad streak. I don't know. Maybe he should team up with Ringo Lam and see how that goes. Can't get any worse than this one.

Why hasn't Kirk Wong made a film in such a long time anyway?

[dionbrother]

Don't recall the CRIME STORY action being shot differently but I haven't watched the movie in over ten years. I do recall the choreography coming off like "serious" slapstick, which I found weird. Might have been a better film with original star Jet Li. But Jackie also played against type by playing himself as the edgier brother in TWIN DRAGONS (a film I hated until I saw the dubbed Miramax version in the theater. Honestly, mediocre Chan movies were somewhat improved by those versions), so I considered SHINJUKU a more well-rounded change of pace. But he could retire tomorrow and I'd say "Should have done it after SHANGHAI KNIGHTS or even CITY HUNTER."

Ringo Lam is done. he makes too much money on those Van Damme movies shot in the former Soviet Bloc. Kirk Wong, after being a more recent "Allen Smithee" on some tv pilot shot in 2000, probably took his Hollywood money and lived large in China. I don't know how much he made on THE BIG HIT, but I was told John Woo made more money off HARD TARGET than his entire Hong Kong career. Wong wasn't a favorite of mine but I find his short directing career a little strange. The IMDB has him listed for the FIVE VENOMS remake. Hmmmm.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Instead of crap like this or New Police Story, Jackie should be aiming for stuff like he did in Crime Story. I would've thought Derek Yee would've been a shoe-in but I guess "Protogé" wasn't a bad stroke of luck but instead the start of a bad streak. I don't know. Maybe he should team up with Ringo Lam and see how that goes. Can't get any worse than this one.

Why hasn't Kirk Wong made a film in such a long time anyway?

This is as bad as Protoge?! Looks like I'm gona have to skip this one. I would have picked it up probably the second I saw it at the store. Protege was a tough movie for me to sit through. Possibly the worst movie Dragon Dynasty released, though there's a few other contenders. I liked New Police Story, but I'd only rate it a 6 or 7/10 at best.

[dionbrother]

I didn't think NEW POLICE STORY was bad at all. Just nothing great. But my expectations for JC's movies have been really low since the triple boredom shot from SUPERCOP, TWIN DRAGONS and CRIME STORY in 1991. If you guys remember the 80s, you have fond memories of getting your greedy paws on the Taiwanese Vidi or Long Shong VHS bootlegs of PROJECT A 2 or DRAGONS FOREVER, or the Japanese laserdiscs of ARMOUR OF GOD and WHEELS ON MEALS. And many would the hit the NY or West Coast Chinatown cinemas. There was real excitement every time he put out a new movie, maybe not as extreme as a Star Wars nut, but there was definitely some enthusiasm putting that new tape in the vcr or hitting the Great Star Theater.. That magic was long gone by 1991. Just don't get that feeling with Tony Jaa's movies or Donnie Yen's.

[cultlabs]

I think the immigration angle is worth talking about, as, Daniel Wu's transformation in a gang member from The Warriors aside, it a fairly serious film with a sombre tone.

Immigration is a hot social potato in most rich countries and for me it was interesting to learn about how poverty and prejudice affect different cultures. In the UK we have a right wing backlash because of immigration from Eastern European and Muslim countries, in Japan, so people look down on the penniless Chinese immigrants. I think the story conveys the confusion, fear and powerlessness that must come with being uprooted in an alien country. It also shows that ignorant fear of strangers and their differing ways is everywhere and it's wrong whatever nationality you belong to.

So, from the point of view of being a good Jackie Chan movie, maybe not if the yardstick is purely fighting and stunts, but the human bodies capacity for physical punishment is finite and even the apparently superhuman Jackie Chan is going to have to slow down some time. It's nice to see him put his energies into a movie with a point to make and I hope he makes more gritty movies and a few less family comedies.

[The Running Man]

You think the Dimension version of Twin Dragons is better than the original? Interesting. The dub was lazy on their part since all it was was taking the original dub script and having Jackie Chan, Bai Ling and some characters they re-casted read it (the same was done with most of the other Dimesnion theatrical releases of Jackie Chan's movies). And the editing was probably the worst of all their work as it was incredibly nonsensical, even for the low standards of Harvey Weinstein's cutting group. There was one scene I remember where it was in the middle of dialog in the bath tub scene with Nina Li and then it just cuts to her opening the door with Maggie Chueng in the next scene with no logical lead in. I remember watching that in a theater and someone actually yelled out at that part, "What?!" The Dimension music was a also disaster. It went from classical music to some sort of weird techno pop all in one action scene.

In fact, some people who I know who saw the Dimension version of that movie first noted how much they hated it and then I showed them the uncut version which they remarked how much better it was and how much more sense it made.

And if you think Crime Story was some kind of low point for Jackie Chan then it's safe to say we don't agree much on anything. That's one of his best movies IMO and under-rated for exactly the reasons you say are great about Shinjiku. Many fans over-look Crime Story because they want a lot of action but there isn't a lot in it and what's there is very different from his usual stuff.

In regards to Ringo Lam, he should've never made any of those Van Damme films in the first place. All three are among his worst movies. However, it slipped my mind that the man hasn't made that many movies in many years. His last Hong Kong movie was totally forgettable (Looking For Mr. Perfect) and his segment of Triangle was my least favorite.

As far as Kirk Wong goes, maybe he doesn't care all that much anymore which is a shame. I think some of his stuff is quite strong and can deliver. Maybe he wasn't getting the kinds of films he would want to be doing in Hollywood but the fact that he hasn't made a movie in Hong Kong again in such a long time tells me that maybe he doesn't have much drive anymore.

Even Sammo Hung who has been so discontent with the Hong Kong film business that he hasn't directed a movie since "Once Upon A Time In China & America" still involves himself with film making because he loves it so damn much. Shame to see others who have potential just let it go to waste or make Van Damme movies.

[DiP]

I would've thought Derek Yee would've been a shoe-in but I guess "Protogé" wasn't a bad stroke of luck but instead the start of a bad streak.

I personally thought Protégé wasn't all that bad, compared to Shinjuku Incident and few others he did before and after One Nite in Mongkok, but you're right. Yee seems to have run out of steam lately and it looks like the quality and energy of his will continue to drop with the upcoming Triple Tap (watch the trailer and prepare for the worst change in style of a HK director ever).

In regards to Ringo Lam, he should've never made any of those Van Damme films in the first place. All three are among his worst movies. However, it slipped my mind that the man hasn't made that many movies in many years. His last Hong Kong movie was totally forgettable (Looking For Mr. Perfect) and his segment of Triangle was my least favorite.

Haven't seen those Van Damme flicks as well as few others (including Victim which is considered his last best movie to date) yet but other than that, there isn't much to talk about Lam anymore (Looking for Mister Perfect was ok and Triangle decent but not memorable). He's now one of those HK directors (Johnny Mak, Michael Mak, Kirk Wong etc) from the past that got forgotten as time went on. There's actually talks of him directing the possible Donnie Yen/Tony Jaa project but there hasn't been any news so far so I doubt Lam is returning anytime sooner. It's a shame because he's one of my favorites directors.

[The Running Man]

Thanks for the tip on Triple Tap. Haven't heard of it until you just mentioned it. I'm confused. Is it supposed to be a remake of "Double Tap" or a spin off since Alex Fong is also in it?

I think that Lam directing a Donnie Yen/Tony Jaa film would be completely wrong for him. I remember reading in several books in articles that compared him to John Woo but those were by Western writers that were just writing out of their asses frankly. The two directors are so different. While Lam did make action movies, his strengths weren't in the action scenes themselves. In fact, the best contemporary action film he made, "Full Contact" had a lot to do with Lar Kar Wing's involvement seeing as how Lam's other films taking place in a contemporary setting never had action sequences of the caliber. Lam's better with dramatic elements and in crime and thriller films. Had he not agreed to make a Van Damme movie and perhaps had better agents as well, he could've made some solid crime films in the US and with higher quality cast. But his trilogy of Van Damme films have pretty much sealed him out of that path.

Kirk Wong could've been a contender. I prefer his Gunmen to DePalma's Untouchables and Crime Story, Organized Crime & Triad Bureau and Rock & Roll Cop showed a lot of talent. A shame he didn't build up from that.

[DiP]

I haven't found out yet but that's the talk. It's possible it could be a follow-up to Double Tap (haven't seen the movie yet). Perhaps someone might give some deep insights on this.

[Guest Markgway]

To me CRIME STORY is a better film than both SHINJUKU INCIDENT and NEW POLICE STORY. By Jackie standards all three represent a departure from his norm - but, hey, it's not like he's playing Hannibal Lecter in any of them. It's arguable which shows the greatest departure, but frankly I think the effect is determined more by the quality of the film.

The fights in CRIME are more brutal, less showy than those Jackie normally choreographs. Yes, there are elements of his style, but they're really more about the character than Jackie as a performer.

The Dimension butchery of THE TWIN DRAGONS was a disaster. I had the misfortune to see it in a cinema - and I was the ONLY person there. No shit. It's a careless, uneven film to begin with, but in its original cut, quite entertaining. The awful dubbing and incoherent editing ruined what was there to enjoy.

I'd love to see Jackie reteam with Ringo Lam for a proper hardcore action-thriller. I thought Lam's segment of TRIANGLE was clearly the best and shows his talent remains (and is currently being wasted). Although I'm a fan I admit I was diappointed by REPLICANT and IN HELL, but MAXIMUM RISK is a good movie (just bought the Blu Ray) and shouldn't be dismissed by anti-Van Damme snobs.

[D1 Ma]

Totally agree, that Crime Story was way better than Shinjuku and, especially, way better than New Police Story. I'd say it had the best Jackie's dramatic acting and action, while toned down, still had that trademark Jackie's look and feel

( Ha-ha, and I just bought Maximum Risk on bluray, too!)

[dionbrother]

Never liked TWIN DRAGONS in its original release. Didn't find it funny or exciting. Reaction to it from the (then fairly underground) zine scene was negative. Damon Foster told me he walked out of it mid-film. Remember the time it came out. We had just seen PROJECT A 2, then DRAGONS FOREVER and POLICE STORY 2. MR. CANTON & LADY ROSE is an ok vanity project. But nobody really loves it. We accepted it as a one-off experiment. OPERATION CONDOR comes out after a ton of pre-release hype. And it isn't a satisfying viewing experience. In fact it is rather...underwhelming. Something was wrong. POLICE STORY 3 is released and is kinda...bleh. Then either TWIN DRAGONS or CRIME STORY is telling us he doesn't care anymore. He's practically sleepwalking through these movies. No memorable action. Was he severely injured on CONDOR? I remember many fans thought he would retire within two years.

Years later, I was told Raymond Chow refused to allow Chan to direct anything after CONDOR because OPERATION CONDOR cost way too much money. He was nicknamed "Money Pit" at Golden Harvest.

Nearly a decade later, I go to see TWIN DRAGONS again in some suburban theater in Boston and kind of enjoy it. Maybe because I was expecting to hate it again or the Miramax version cut out much of the unfunny comedy and moved better. Yeah, I missed seeing Liu Chia Liang's cameo, but found it strangely entertaining for the afternoon. The action scenes were definitely better on the big screen. I've never watched it again and probably never will.

I thought CRIME STORY was ok on the Taiwanese tape I saw years ago, and I thought it was ok when I rented the Miramax VHS in 1998, but again, don't care for revisiting or collecting most of his 90s work. I own CITY HUNTER and that's about it. Don't even care about DRUNKEN MASTER 2, possibly his most overrated movie ever.

[Guest Markgway]

Damon Foster told me he walked out of it mid-film.

Oriental Cinema is the last place I would look for a trusted film review.

MR. CANTON & LADY ROSE is an ok vanity project. But nobody really loves it.

I do. I think it's in Jackie's top five.

Don't even care about DRUNKEN MASTER 2, possibly his most overrated movie ever.

It is overrated... but it's also still a good film.

[dionbrother]

Oriental Cinema is the last place I would look for a trusted film review.

Over Toby & Rick's endless 4 star reviews in Eastern Heroes, based on what bootlegs popped up in the shop that month? Over Bey Logan's reviews in IMPACT which were based on who he was doing business with at the time? Damon's viewpoint was offbeat, but it was without the motive for profit or fame. He blew off a Rolling Stone writer for similar reasons and rejected Tai Seng advertising because they were unethical. I'm probably revealing too much, but Damon is the only zine publisher with any real principles, quirky dislike of Tsui Hark or not.

[The Running Man]

The thing is, you mention Damon Foster's walk-out as if it should mean something. Like that's the stamp of truth.

That's nice that he walked out, but I liked Twin Dragons. I agree with Mark it's uneven and I guess it was the result of two directors who probably were not that compatible working on one movie, but there's enough to enjoy from my point of view.

Count me also as a big fan of Miracles. Definitely one of the best movies Jackie has ever been in and it's over-looked by a lot of Jackie Chan fans for not being like other Jackie Chan movies. Similar reason with "Crime Story". Also count me a big fan of City Hunter (only with the original English dub though) and I thought Shanghai Knights was pretty good and really the only good US film Jackie has made so far. Too bad all the fight scenes were cut in half.

However, I do agree that Drunken Master 2 is over-rated. I remember the very first time I saw it I thought it was good but was kind of disappointed. I was surprised as all hell that it was called by some "the best movie Jackie Chan has ever made".

[dionbrother]

The thing is, you mention Damon Foster's walk-out as if it should mean something. Like that's the stamp of truth.

It is to illustrate the reaction of fans at the time. Damon had never walked out on any Jackie Chan movies up until that time. He'd been catching them during their theatrical runs since 1980 and was a bigger fan than he'd admit in print. It doesn't seem like much in today's perspective, because JC has made alot of garbage, but at the time, we only expected his American movies to bore us.

I have alot of problems with DM2, which I discussed ad nauseum on the old board and on Alt.Asian-movies on Usenet. For something hyped up as the greatest Jackie Chan movie and the greatest kung fu movie ever, it didn't deliver. I would even argue that there is no way in hell that Jackie Chan could make the greatest martial arts movie ever. If he can't work with Liang without butting heads, but could work with Robert Clouse and James Glickenhaus, then I'd have to say he's always been the biggest detriment to his own career.

[The Running Man]

Save for the fact that Damon Foster, unless he was the leader of a cult, did not represent an entire people. It doesn't illustrate anything except that Damon Foster walked out of Twin Dragons.

For you, Damon Foster walking out of Twin Dragons was probably one of the biggest moments in your journey as a fan of Asian cinema. For me though... it was Tuesday.

If he can't work with Liang without butting heads, but could work with Robert Clouse and James Glickenhaus, then I'd have to say he's always been the biggest detriment to his own career.

Now that's just misleading. Jackie Chan has spoken in length about his dissatisfaction with Robert Clouse. Remember the whole "just pick of the stick" story?

And there was anything but common ground being laid out on The Protector set. How else would you explain Jackie creating the (superior) Hong Kong cut of it?

And about Lau Kar Leung, while Jackie wasn't totally happy with the way the film was being done he didn't kick him off the set. The producers and financiers did. Remember, the movie was a charity film like Twin Dragons and they were probably worried it wouldn't be able to compete with the kind of film that Once Upon A Time In China brought forth. It certainly looked like an old Shaw Brothers film although I don't think that was a bad thing.

Shame his Drunken Master 3 was so lackluster. It only seemed to give more credence to the ones who did the booting of his ass on DM2.

[Asmo]

For you, Damon Foster walking out of Twin Dragons was probably one of the biggest moments in your journey as a fan of Asian cinema. For me though... it was Tuesday.

Haha, classic response. I just had to say something.

[dionbrother]

Save for the fact that Damon Foster, unless he was the leader of a cult, did not represent an entire people. It doesn't illustrate anything except that Damon Foster walked out of Twin Dragons.

Was I supposed to name every friend and trader of mine who didn't like TWIN DRAGONS? Because nobody did. These same people also never gave a shit about what Miramax did to these movies because, we had them years before you ever heard of them. Damon Foster was the best known at the time (and had the most extreme reaction), because many of those guys never bothered having a zine or web presence and nobody would know who they are in the "I just love these Chinese movies ever since seeing THE KILLER and RUMBLE IN BRONX" late blooming fan scene.

If you love that era of movies where Jackie acts like a complete pussy, runs away from people and throws furniture at them, TWIN DRAGONS is your movie, along with boring ass FIRST STRIKE, SUPERCOP, and the excruciating ACCIDENTAL SPY. Christ, he made Don Wilson's straight-to-video shit look good. I don't like TWIN DRAGONS because he acts like a goddamn pussy. The perfect Jackie film for Obama generation. Buncha metro mama's boys.

Time to separate the Jackie movie fans. 70s-80s ass-kicking Jackie of EAGLE'S SHADOW and PROJECT A, and 90s pussy Jackie movie fans. You must love TWIN DRAGONS because it gives you two Pussy Jackies for the price of one ticket.

For you, Damon Foster walking out of Twin Dragons was probably one of the biggest moments in your journey as a fan of Asian cinema. For me though... it was Tuesday.

For you, the Weinsteins screwy release of Asian movies to Blockbuster and Best Buy is the greatest crime of the 20th Century, ranking with Stalin, Mao, Hitler and Pol Pot. Most of the HK movie viewing world doesn't give a damn.

Now that's just misleading. Jackie Chan has spoken in length about his dissatisfaction with Robert Clouse. Remember the whole "just pick of the stick" story?

Why not fire him? Clouse had no weight. Maybe Jackie's "running pussy" character is closer to the real him.

And there was anything but common ground being laid out on The Protector set. How else would you explain Jackie creating the (superior) Hong Kong cut of it?

He could have fired Glickenhaus, the entire crew was rallying for him to do so. Glickenhaus was hired because Golden Harvest was a cheap company. So Chan turns THE PROTECTOR from unwatchable, inane junk to adequate filler. But doesn't pull rank and demand his cut be released in the west. I often think JC was self-sabotaging himself when it came to American success.

And about Lau Kar Leung, while Jackie wasn't totally happy with the way the film was being done he didn't kick him off the set. The producers and financiers did. Remember, the movie was a charity film like Twin Dragons and they were probably worried it wouldn't be able to compete with the kind of film that Once Upon A Time In China brought forth. It certainly looked like an old Shaw Brothers film although I don't think that was a bad thing.

Jackie didn't get along with Liu, and was bitching to producers that the film would be too old fashioned. So instead, we get half a good Liang movie and half a tired rehash of YOUNG MASTER. Yuen Woo Ping was very hurt he was never asked to direct it,btw.

Shame his Drunken Master 3 was so lackluster. It only seemed to give more credence to the ones who did the booting of his ass on DM2.

But i'd rather rewatch his DRUNKEN MONKEY or even NEW KIDS IN TOWN than DM2.

[The Running Man]

Was I supposed to name every friend and trader of mine who didn't like TWIN DRAGONS?

No. You saying you didn't like the movie was more than enough. You saying Damon Foster walking out was like some sort of point to give truth in saying that Twin Dragons isn't a good movie. Not liking Twin Dragons is just an opinion.

If you love that era of movies where Jackie acts like a complete pussy, runs away from people and throws furniture at them, TWIN DRAGONS is your movie, along with boring ass FIRST STRIKE, SUPERCOP, and the excruciating ACCIDENTAL SPY.

Time to separate the Jackie movie fans. 70s-80s ass-kicking Jackie of EAGLE'S SHADOW and PROJECT A, and 90s pussy Jackie movie fans. You must love TWIN DRAGONS because it gives you two Pussy Jackies for the price of one ticket.

See this is your problem. Whenever you start on a rant, you start pulling rhetoric without even paying attention to who you are replying to. I've said before on this thread I think Police Story 3 is over-rated. I even mentioned in this thread that the Stanley Tong Police Story movies dropped the ball because the Kai Kui in those movies is not the same compared to the first two Police Stories. In the first two Police Stories, Jackie was a good nature cop but when he was pushed to the edge he was a rabid, raging beast. That is what separated Kai Kui from the other characters Jackie Chan was playing and it was great. However, Tong's Police Story films neutered him.

Oh, and how am I getting two pussy Jackies for the price of one in Twin Dragons? Where in that movie does Die Hard act like a pussy? That was in fact the whole dichotomy between the twins. One grew up in the streets and was a fighter the other was the complete opposite.

Christ, he made Don Wilson's straight-to-video shit look good.

Yeah, I wouldn't go that far.

For you, the Weinsteins screwy release of Asian movies to Blockbuster and Best Buy is the greatest crime of the 20th Century, ranking with Stalin, Mao, Hitler and Pol Pot. Most of the HK movie viewing world doesn't give a damn.

It was a joke buddy. Calm down.

Why not fire him? Clouse had no weight. Maybe Jackie's "running pussy" character is closer to the real him.

What do you mean Clouse had no weight? On that set Jackie had no weight. Warner Brothers also co-produced the movie and Jackie wasn't producer on it. You can thank Raymond Chow for that set-up.

He could have fired Glickenhaus, the entire crew was rallying for him to do so. Glickenhaus was hired because Golden Harvest was a cheap company. So Chan turns THE PROTECTOR from unwatchable, inane junk to adequate filler. But doesn't pull rank and demand his cut be released in the west. I often think JC was self-sabotaging himself when it came to American success.

Same exact situation with The Big Brawl. Warner Brothers was co-producing. Jackie had no weight and no rank to pull because of the set-up. However, because of the loop-hole he took advantage to make his cut of the film and had that released in Asia.

Jackie didn't get along with Liu, and was bitching to producers that the film would be too old fashioned. So instead, we get half a good Liang movie and half a tired rehash of YOUNG MASTER. Yuen Woo Ping was very hurt he was never asked to direct it,btw.

I think you mean a "half a tried rehash of" Dragon Lord. And yeah, maybe Jackie expressed his satisfaction with the way the movie was going and that had influence on the booting of Lau Kar Leung. However from what I understand, Jackie did not make the decision to take him off.

But i'd rather rewatch his DRUNKEN MONKEY or even NEW KIDS IN TOWN than DM2.

Drunken Monkey over Drunken Master 2? Yeah, I wouldn't go that far.