Ninja the Final Duel or Shaolin Dolemite?

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Which one is better? Lightning Hopkins brought this up on another thread. I think it needs further discussion. I go with Dolemite. Superior nude fight scene with Ninja Ho, Shabazz Brothers, Davey Crockett, Tupac, Robert Tai and his sped up animal forms…

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I think Final Duel came out first, and then Dolemite. Dolemite uses all new footage, and also has some hilariously bad scenes with Rudy ray Moore. Robert Tai filmed like 10 hours worth of footage, so maybe one day they'll make a thrid movie. Though I think the market for movies like this and Fist of Legends 2 is down right now:tongue:

[kungfusamurai]

I think Final Duel came out first, and then Dolemite. Dolemite uses all new footage, and also has some hilariously bad scenes with Rudy ray Moore. Robert Tai filmed like 10 hours worth of footage, so maybe one day they'll make a thrid movie. Though I think the market for movies like this and Fist of Legends 2 is down right now:tongue:

By 'all new footage', you just mean the stuff that wasn't seen in Ninja The Final Duel but filmed at the same time. They incorporated the Rudy Ray Moore stuff much later. I'm guessing it was all Tobey Russell's idea?

KFS

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Sorry, yes, by "all new footage", I meant "completely different footage" than what's in Final Duel, released by Crash Cinema.

[lightning hopkins]

Excellent question, Morgoth!

While I agree that there are elements of Shaolin Dolemite that match and arguably surpass the insanity of Ninja: The Final Duel (eg. the epic Alice Tseng ninja-breast-weaponry scene -- one can only wonder how My Young Auntie might have turned out with HER in the lead role), the spliced-in Rudy Ray Moore scenes quickly become distractions that totally overshadow the brilliance on display elsewhere in the film. In the end, SD feels too much like bad Godfrey Ho mixed with that crappy Kung Pow movie.

Still beats 3/4 of straight fu flicks for pure entertainment value though.

[lightning hopkins]

And actually, since someone mentioned Toby....

Forget that Massacre movie -- if anyone could talk Toby Russell into releasing all the footage from THIS film that's supposedly floating around, I'd be front and center shelling out whatever it cost. And judging from the cult status that N:TFD and SD have garnered over the years, I suspect that there are quite a few others out there who'd be likewise interested...

2000 pounds for 10+ hours of epic Robert Tai-guided genius? Sounds like a bargain to me!

[Morgoth Bauglir]

You need to go to the trade forum. Those 10 hours are yours if you want them. There has to be at least a few people who have it, though now that you set that type of price, um:tongue:

So you’re taking Final Duel because Dolemite has the Rudy Ray Moore scenes. Understandable. Those scenes were a bit tough to watch at times. But not as tough as watching Lo rei fighting in a thong in Final Duel:sad: I think only Ogami Itto could pull that off.

[silver hermit]

i will sell you a copy serious

[Drunken Monk]

I've only ever seen "Ninja: Final Duel" and loved every minute of it. I think the insanity of the giant, floating water spiders and nude lady fighting got me hooked and the action is just superb. I'm one of those people that really want all ten hours of footage also. I tried to get hold of it a few years ago with no luck but obviously it is out there. I'm tempted to try and get it again. Ten hours of such footage would be pure kung fu heaven.

I'm happy to hear "Shaolin Dolemite" includes footage not found in "Ninja: Final Duel." A ninja-breast-weaponry scene, you say? I must get it now, just to see what that entails.

[lightning hopkins]

You need to go to the trade forum. Those 10 hours are yours if you want them. There has to be at least a few people who have it, though now that you set that type of price, um:tongue:

What what what?! And all this time I'd just assumed the footage was tucked away somewhere and would never see the light of day. Thanks for enlightening me, Morgoth and hermit!

Why are outfits like Dragon Dynasty wasting their time rereleasing Shaw Brothers stuff when they could put out a limited edition box-set collection of THIS, complete with Toby Russell audio commentary, liner notes, photos, and commemorative coonskin cap?

After poking around the interweb, it looks like the footage IS indeed available, though evidently in raw unedited form, including multiple retakes of scenes. Anyone care to give a quick synopsis of what exactly's out there? Any more epic kung fu insanity that didn't make its way into Ninja: The Final Duel or Shaolin Dolemite?

[Drunken Monk]

Anyone care to give a quick synopsis of what exactly's out there? Any more epic kung fu insanity that didn't make its way into Ninja: The Final Duel or Shaolin Dolemite?

I'd also like to know!

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I also heard that the footage was put on there unedited. I didn't realize there are retakes. I wonder if there's multiple takes of the nude fight scenes.

Someone posted a link once of a review and I think it goes over every scene of the movie. It had a hell of a lot of pics and descriptions of the pics. I wish I could remember the website. Hopefully someone can post it here like they did before.

[Drunken Monk]

I hate bumping threads but...

Does anyone know of the link Morgoth mentioned in the last post? I would love to see that particular website as it may be the closest I get to the "lost footage."

[Ronin]

Some other interesting Ninja: The Final Duel links:

Robert Tai Temple

Incredible N:TFD stills!

Robert Tai Interview

"We knocked out many pictures together -- Shaolin v Ninja, Mafia v Ninja, Shaolin Against Lama. I didn't direct that but I oversaw the film, Shaolin Chastity Kung Eu, which I have to say was really bad -- no excuses for that one -- and my favourite, Ninja the Final Duel.

"We shot eleven hours in nine months for $200,000. I liked the end product, but there was still masses more I wanted to shoot."

[Morgoth Bauglir]

"but there was still masses more I wanted to shoot." lol. This guy's crazy.

Thanks for the links.

[greenfan]

I hope the answer to this poll is Final Duel 1 because Shaolin Dolemite was a load of crap.

[AbeRudder]

If you guys want to see some of the lost footage abbotwhite on youtube uploaded like 10 fights from it. http://www.youtube.com/user/abottwhite - just scroll through his videos and you'll find em.

[sifu iron perm]

yeah theres quite alot of the ninja final duel floating about..

[Shawoholic]

Was ninja final duel originally meant to be tv-serie or what?Scenes are great(except over-extended opening which is 10 minutes too long),nude fight and spiders particularly but 90 mins "edit" does not have feeling of a proper movie,I too would be very intested to see complete epic...

[Jay Stone]

Well I think Tai is one of the best fight choreographers there ever was, that's why I've been trying to locate the 0 hours of NTFD footage. But when it comes to hard to find stuff, people get greedy, as if the actually own the rights to these movies. Although I haven't looked around in a few years for it...

[loempiavreter]

And Oh my Gosh, where did they get the costume designer from? It had to be embarassing for the actors. Did they know they were making cheezy crap? The white monks have ridiculous earrings and pieces of construction paper stuck to their forehead. Goofy...People have sat thru 10 hours of this? Amazing... 5 elemet ninjas...

Hey that''s the only redeeming factor for this movie for me! I love wacky costumes in my kung fu!

Maybe I've read one to many comicbooks in my yoof.

Agree that the fight scenes are way to undercranked.

[Jay Stone]

Good idea trying to locate 0 hours of footage, you don't want to see anymore than that. Just kidding, Robert Tai was a great choreographer but not in this. The fights are so undercranked, it's almost cartoonish and "power rangeresque".

I thought I seen Crash Cinema (or Rarescope, their dvd covers and artwork look similar) release 3 different DVDs of this footage a couple years back? Is it out of print?

Heh, damn iPhone keyboard!

But anyway, as for the Crash release, the only one I've ever seen is the 90 min or so one, that someone said was actually the second movie? This film seems to have so much different info on it. We need something definitive! What I wouldn't do for a blu-ray of this!

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Venom of the Ninja aka Ninja Death part 1 is a lot of fun. Too much soft core porn, but Mark Long has some good scenes, the music’s good, the voice acting and dialogue is very unintentionally funny at times, and the guy with the metal mask is a really cool character. Don’t expect much from the fighting since it’s more of what you saw in Final Duel, but the fights with the metal mask character are exciting.

hkmdb.com lists Ko Pao as director, and apparently he is also known as Joseph Kuo. It is very possible that he directed Ninja Death since I think he also directed Five Fighters From Shaolin, a far superior movie, but similar in some ways to Ninja Death.