Why didn't Gordon Liu become internationally famous?

[LiuBei]

Quite honestly he seemed like the most talented out of all his peers. I've been watching martial arts films for a long time but Gordon Liu was the only actor that could convey a full range of emotions and physically act at the same time. He was the quintessential hero. Jet Li was always too stoic and serious, Jackie Chan was two dimensionally comedic, I was really expecting his career to take off at least in a similar path as Takeshi Kitano's did. Instead he just sort of floundered after the 80's in subpar martial arts roles and disappeared into obscurity until Kill Bill came around and revived his image somewhat.

There's a good reason why guys like RZA and Tarantino recognized Gordon Liu. He is kind of something special and should have had a meteoric career.

It's a shame. Was it because he just wasn't all that ambitious or did Hong Kong producers keep him down?

[HAZ]

It depends what you mean by famous. Gordon was walking around downtown Montreal incogneto. He was dressed casually & had on a bandana. As soon as he took off the banadana, people all knew who he was. He's a very modest man, and was very humbled by the attention he recieves. His career might not have been as sucessful as a Jet Li or Jackie Chan in terms of fiscal reward, but he's not a nobody. Look at all the people he's influenced. Also, his career might have not have been as sucessful, but I'd say that he's more of an iconic figure. Gordon is the Master Killer, San Te, but neither Jet Li or Jackie Chan have roles that define them so. Well, maybe Jet Li with Wong Fei Hung. I think it's all timing; innovators almost never get their due. I spoke to DJ Kool Herc on the phone. I have his cell number. The guy is like the godfather of hip hop & pretty much invented Deejaying as we know it. Not many people know who he is, as opposed to say Jay-Z, who doesn't seem to return my calls....

[crazedjustice888]

I would say that he is internationally famous, just not to the levels of Jackie or Jet. This guy came before those two so naturally its the older people that most of the time recognize him. Also Gordon stopped after a while with acting. He acted on some T.V. shows and make cameo appearances but never anything front row. An interview with him said that he took off to focus on his other love besides the martial arts. Music...the man is a singer and a guitar player. I guess if he wanted too, he could be just like the other two if not better, but he just wanted to pursue what he loved rather then go for the fame. This is NOT bashing Jackie or Jet by the way...lol

At least...this is MY interpretation of it.

[Blood Sword]

Well,at least he got popularity in Japan after release of "heroes of the east" which was rareish movie back then because it showed japanese in more positive side in chinese movie.

[Iron Boat]

Maybe he didn't become a bigger star because he got stuck doing LKL films exclusively. You have to branch out to become a bigger star, like Ti Lung perhaps.

[peringaten]

He wasn't exclusive to LKL.

[Blood Sword]

Would have loved to see him starring in lead role on some CC`s movies.

[Iron Boat]

He wasn't exclusive to LKL.

So what other directors did he work with besides Lar Kar Wing?

[peringaten]

So what other directors did he work with besides Lar Kar Wing?

Kuei Chih Hung, Hua Shan, couple of others.

[Blood Sword]

Kuei Chih Hung, Hua Shan, couple of others.

Yeah but without verifying it I dare to bet mostly it was family business??

[Killer Meteor]

Shaws in general were reluctant to promote their Stars in the West, lest they get too big for their boots. Compare this to Angela Mao being well promoted stateside.

Also, by the time Gordon Liu became a star in HK, I think the main boom in the West was over, more or less.

[Tosh]

It does bother me that when your talking KF people always know Chan while I have to describe Liu as that guy from kill bill:neutral: That being said people I've met from Asia in their late 20's - 30's know Chan the best too, in Asia his movies were played on tv a lot when they were growing up. I think he took off commercially as well, a friend said his face is all over Hong Kong advertisements, billboards ect.

[kungpowmaster]

Gordon Liu is my fave Shaw star. He just stands out to me. I haven't seen all his films, but I really like Legendary Weapons and 36th Chamber.

[LiuBei]

An interesting thing about HK film stars that are popular overseas (especially the U.S.) is that most of them didn't actually become popular until after the mid 90's. This was the time when Jackie Chan's star kind of hit its peak and started to decline in Hong Kong but then he suddenly got this big second wind of popularity in the U.S. One thing we forget about as fans of Asian cinema is that there is a big difference between cult popularity and mainstream popularity. Jackie Chan, Jet Li, etc.. were NOT household names until certain key movies came out in the mid 90's. So, i'd say that if Gordon Liu had kept up a strong film orientated resume in the 90's he could have easily broke into the U.S. film market at least.

For instance I clearly remember when Jackie Chan started to become a household name in the U.S.. It was when Rumble In The Bronx was released in the U.S. in 1996 and became a sleeper hit which really kicked his fame off. Before then only asian film fans knew who he was in the U.S. at least. I still remember how bizarre it was that JC was "breaking out" with one of his most subpar movies in years. Then Jackie went on to do Rush Hour and the rest is history..

Jet Li's big Hollywood break came in Lethal Weapon 4. His role really sucked in it because we all knew he could completely kick the crap out of Mel Gibson and Danny Glover but it was still a big turning point.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Cult popularity or mainstream popularity... I often wonder if some of the old school stars even know that they have legions of fans in mostly every country around the world! I remember a mid to late 90's interview with Leung Kar Yan (Beardy), where the interviewer tried in vain to persuade him that he was known and loved in many countries. And it seemed like he just didn't believe it! "Nobody remembers me" he said, in a humble way. For some reason that kind of saddened me.

Maybe some of them don't care. Like Lee Yi Min, who seems to have no interest or attatcment to his life as an actor. But I doubt that many of those old guys, still around, are even aware of their global fan following.

[LiuBei]

Maybe some of them don't care. Like Lee Yi Min, who seems to have no interest or attatcment to his life as an actor. But I doubt that many of those old guys, still around, are even aware of their global fan following.

Yeah Gordon Liu's CNN interview was really revealing in how some of them think after all these years. He even mentioned how he had never heard of Tarantino before and was completely puzzled why someone would be calling up an "old 70's kung fu actor" to do movies again. I think a lot of them don't really grasp the sort of cultural impact these movies have made. It's like a pebble dropping into a pond there were a bunch of cultural ripples that have extended out to the next generation of actors, martial artists, directors, and even musicians.

[Killer Meteor]

Yeah Gordon Liu's CNN interview was really revealing in how some of them think after all these years. He even mentioned how he had never heard of Tarantino before and was completely puzzled why someone would be calling up an "old 70's kung fu actor" to do movies again. I think a lot of them don't really grasp the sort of cultural impact these movies have made. It's like a pebble dropping into a pond there were a bunch of cultural ripples that have extended out to the next generation of actors, martial artists, directors, and even musicians.

What surprises me is when Shaws goes, Gordon seems to vanish from mainstream HK cinema, with the odd exception of say, Tiger On The Beat. In fact, nearly all the Shaw actors, aside from Chin Siu Ho, seem to have this problem

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Reminds me of the story That Bey Logan has told on a few commentaries, about Tarantino saying that he thought Lo Lieh was the greatest chinese actor ever. And then Bey meets Lo Lieh in Cannes, and enthusiastically parlays QT's sentimemts to him, to which he responds... "That's great..... Who's Quentin Tarantino?". LOL...

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

What surprises me is when Shaws goes, Gordon seems to vanish from mainstream HK cinema, with the odd exception of say, Tiger On The Beat. In fact, nearly all the Shaw actors, aside from Chin Siu Ho, seem to have this problem

I wouldn't really agree with that! Maybe their star status as such, dropped significantly, but a whole bunch of them had continous work throughout the years, and some still do! If not, they go to TVB!

[Killer Meteor]

I wouldn't really agree with that! Maybe their star status as such, dropped significantly, but a whole bunch of them had continous work throughout the years, and some still do! If not, they go to TVB!

Oh I know they continue to act and so on, but they no longer seem to headline films. But then again, neither do quite a few of the non Shaws 70s stars

[LiuBei]

Reminds me of the story That Bey Logan has told on a few commentaries, about Tarantino saying that he thought Lo Lieh was the greatest chinese actor ever. And then Bey meets Lo Lieh in Cannes, and enthusiastically parlays QT's sentimemts to him, to which he responds... "That's great..... Who's Quentin Tarantino?". LOL...

You'd be surprised by how few people in Asia know who Tarantino is. I live in Bangkok and the few Thai cinemaphiles I know are familiar with Kill Bill and that's about it. I asked them why that was the case and they said that a lot of Tarantino's movies (especially Pulp Fiction) can be incomprehensible to a mainstream Asian audience. It's because QT's character dialogue is a distillation of a western view of pop culture and film coming out of Tarantino's mouth. It's just not relatable to most eastern audiences because of all the oblique references and culture specific wit. Kill Bill was different because it had themes that were universally understandable and you didn't have to grasp every nuance or reference in his dialogue to appreciate the visceral visual style of the movie.

It's a big surprise when actors don't know who he is though..because most actors are usually in tune with the film world and are fans of film themselves.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Actually, I wish I didn't know who Quentin Tarantino was... sadly I do!

[Tosh]

You'd be surprised by how few people in Asia know who Tarantino is. I live in Bangkok and the few Thai cinemaphiles I know are familiar with Kill Bill and that's about it. I asked them why that was the case and they said that a lot of Tarantino's movies (especially Pulp Fiction) can be incomprehensible to a mainstream Asian audience. It's because QT's character dialogue is a distillation of a western view of pop culture and film coming out of Tarantino's mouth. It's just not relatable to most eastern audiences because of all the oblique references and culture specific wit. Kill Bill was different because it had themes that were universally understandable and you didn't have to grasp every nuance or reference in his dialogue to appreciate the visceral visual style of the movie.

It's a big surprise when actors don't know who he is though..because most actors are usually in tune with the film world and are fans of film themselves.

I never thought of it like that but I can understand where your coming from, I think you also have to be well over 30 to get most of his cultural references, Kill Bill was different, more towards his Eastern influences even when he threw the old Western part or two in there. I find a movie like Yojimbo interesting, a Samurai movie took from a Western novel then turned back into a western with a Fist Full of Dollar, but I'm derailing.

I like QT, his earlier films especially before he became to self indulgent, he did however pull a couple of our best out into the spotlight again, now if that end fight in Kill Bill could of been longer and had Chiba in it I would of been in heaven:xd:

[HAZ]

I wouldn't really agree with that! Maybe their star status as such, dropped significantly, but a whole bunch of them had continous work throughout the years, and some still do! If not, they go to TVB!

The stable of older actors on TVB is what got me into their series. I've seen 4 series with Gordon. Is there a chance that Gordon was ahead of his time? Imagine him as a member of the 7 Fortunes!

I think for some of the older actors, they never felt like stars because many of them never really got the star treatment from their employers. To hear people talk about working for Shaw's, it sounds grueling. Long days of filming, being in that dormitory, dance classes, KF classes. And if you couldn't keep up or were uncooperative, there was always someone waiting in the wings to take your place.

[Cognoscente]

On 1/2/2010 at 12:05 PM, Killer Meteor said:

Shaws in general were reluctant to promote their Stars in the West, lest they get too big for their boots. Compare this to Angela Mao being well promoted stateside.

Also, by the time Gordon Liu became a star in HK, I think the main boom in the West was over, more or less.

This is why it was just as well that Shaw turned down Bruce when he first came to them.