Member Sandpalm79 Posted December 5, 2009 Member Share Posted December 5, 2009 i am a huge venoms fan. To the point that they make up 85% of the shaws that i watch.. i recently have been getting into the " Iron triangle" golden era ( think thats the right term) i have seen vengeance ( amazing) and now recently got " heroic ones" i watched brave archer and his mate, then put on heroic ones. My jaw dropped! The sets looked seriously 20 times better than brave archer and his mate. the costumes!! it reminded me of house of flying daggers. why did the budget plummet so much around 1978? the sheer ambition seemed to change as well. I truly enjoyed heroic ones and kinda wish the venoms movies had the same budget at least for a few movies. any info be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Silver Fox Posted December 5, 2009 Member Share Posted December 5, 2009 I think Cheh was on his way out as far as a lucrative director and he was given less and less to work with as the 70's progressed. Perhaps this IS the reason why the Venom thing happened in the first place. Without the epic sets/big budgets he brought in the amazingly acrobatic Venom crew. With guys as talented as that, you didn't need much else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member peringaten Posted December 5, 2009 Member Share Posted December 5, 2009 Besides budget Chang Cheh was moving more towards a type of stagey derivative theatrical peking opera film style I think; more stage-bound in set nature and acrobatically choreo-d; low key - he said himself in interview he didn't feel so comfortable working on his more convoluted epic scale films, thought he worked better in a small capacity - I guess Shaw sets and his opera crew filled this as an approach in his later career; I guess he started on this more basic approach from Fantastic Magic Baby onwards; he & studio realised it was a bit too sparse from reactions & ended up in that venoms-y style. A non-budget busting formula was set. Cinematographer Kung Mu-to stopped working with him too later on, I guess resulting in a different look. CC didn't feel the need to go outdoors anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted December 6, 2009 Member Share Posted December 6, 2009 The scope of a Cheng Cheh film like Blood Brothers vs Kid With the Golden Arm, big difference hunh??? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sandpalm79 Posted December 6, 2009 Author Member Share Posted December 6, 2009 thanks for the insight guys. the only thing i may like about the older movies ( pre venoms) is that you BELIEVE things are going on off screen. do you know what i mean? its somehing that i noticed with lia chia liang movies too. there are so many extras it feels alive. but on some chang cheh venoms films, there are so few extras and differences in sets, its hard to believe its " real" and that things are happening in your imagination off screen. any one else notice this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Yakuza954 Posted December 6, 2009 Member Share Posted December 6, 2009 I think the Shaw Brothers Studio just realized it was a lot easier to churn out movies in Taiwan (venoms) than it was spending a boat load of money on giant outdoor sets and casts like they once had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member peringaten Posted December 6, 2009 Member Share Posted December 6, 2009 thanks for the insight guys. the only thing i may like about the older movies ( pre venoms) is that you BELIEVE things are going on off screen. do you know what i mean? its somehing that i noticed with lia chia liang movies too. there are so many extras it feels alive. but on some chang cheh venoms films, there are so few extras and differences in sets, its hard to believe its " real" and that things are happening in your imagination off screen. any one else notice this?Realism wasn't really a great concern for CC with the venoms films, I don't think; he was just doing a comic book opera thing. Venoms were the troop; Shaw sets the stage. I think the Shaw Brothers Studio just realized it was a lot easier to churn out movies in Taiwan (venoms) than it was spending a boat load of money on giant outdoor sets and casts like they once had.I assumed the V-films were shot in Clearwater, after his Taiwan stint, which had seen the stuff from Shaolin Cycle up to the grandiose of 7-Man Army, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted December 6, 2009 Member Share Posted December 6, 2009 This is why Cheng Cheh's career, imo is the most interesting of all Shaw directors, his films and their production values are like a timeline of the company itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OldTimer Posted December 6, 2009 Member Share Posted December 6, 2009 I seem to remember that, over time, Shaws also felt the big-budget films weren't pulling in box office numbers high enough to offset the time and money. Not that they were poor performers; but the ratio of return wasn't what they expected. With the low budget films, they could make more films for the same amount of money/time, gaining smaller absolute revenues but at a satisfactory income/outgo ratio. >> I assumed the V-films were shot in Clearwater, after his Taiwan stint, which had seen the stuff from Shaolin Cycle up to the grandiose of 7-Man Army, etc.? Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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