Member BaronK Posted July 10, 2012 Member Share Posted July 10, 2012 Tien Sheng is Water Man in CvR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Alexandra Posted August 19, 2012 Member Share Posted August 19, 2012 Tien Sheng is Water Man in CvR. Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member AlexanderFu Posted June 16, 2020 Member Share Posted June 16, 2020 Best scene in the movie https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/viral/rat-battles-cat-in-spain-with-ninja-like-skill/vi-BB14UX1x?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 Cat vs Rat (1982: Lau Kar-leung: Hong Kong): I only missing wo films from Lau Kar-leung’s oeuvre (The Lady is the Boss, Tiger on Beat II) and I have been meaning to see this for years. Lau is one of the best marital art directors whose fidelity and philosophy tends to permeate his directed movies. For example, all weapons are basically real weapons (usually not sharp). He pays attention to form, style and often teacher/student relations. His fight scenes are well shot, sometimes long and usually have excellent editing. His actors are usually athletes with a background in martial arts. This is loosely based on the book The Seven Heroes and Five Gallants (1879; Where can I get an English translation of this?) which has had many adaptions in movie and TV. Terrence J. Brady’s book “Alexander Fu Sheng” has some interesting information on this film. John Charles of Hong Kong Filmography loves this (8/10). I have read glowing reviews of it on HKMDB and Kung Fu Forum. Why do I feel a bit let down with this? Do you know when you have seen a performance that just grates on you? In a way reminds me of the kid in The Tim Drum where the acting and presence becomes grating. Here we have Alexander Fu Sheng, who is normally an impish actor becomes flat out irritating like sneezing when your back is out. The film starts off well with two factions of a sifu (teacher; played by the director’s brother Lau Kar-wing) who consistently try to top each other yet remain completely equal in ability. They both have strong kung fu – though not quite as good as their master. You have Jien Chiu (Adam Cheng; cat) as the more noble of the two and (Alexander Fu Sheng; rat – often quite an appropriate name). This is the only time those two co-starred together. Random note: Adam Cheng was married to Lydia Shum (a popular TV actress) a few years later. This reminds me of the earlier movie Odd Couple (1979) which was directed by the sifu (Lau Kar-wing) of this film. For me that is the superior movie. But this was a hit in Hong Kong and unfortunately Fu Sheng would die in a car crash the following year. Too much of the comedy falls flat here. I generally like a lot of Cantonese comedy and I like most of the moments outside of Fu Sheng. So soon into the movie I just wanted his comeuppance. He is that annoying. I also wish the action scenes were longer. While I like the bad guy’s hidden lair it seemed like the whole last sequence of the film was thematically so different than the first part of the movie. You went from a sifu/student driven plot to a comedic “steal the emperors jade mark” which I felt rushed, sometimes a bit too stupid and took away from the nice beginning. Have you seen this? What do you think of Fu Sheng in general? Sources: Wiki on The Seven Heroes and Five Gallants 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DrNgor Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 13 hours ago, masterofoneinchpunch said: Cat vs Rat (1982: Lau Kar-leung: Hong Kong): I only missing wo films from Lau Kar-leung’s oeuvre (The Lady is the Boss, Tiger on Beat II) and I have been meaning to see this for years. Lau is one of the best marital art directors whose fidelity and philosophy tends to permeate his directed movies. I haven't seen this one yet. It came out in Brazil, but discs are rare now and I'm not sure I'd pay a pretty penny for this particular film. 13 hours ago, masterofoneinchpunch said: What do you think of Fu Sheng in general? I enjoyed him in Chang Cheh's Shaolin Cycle movies, but I haven't seen him in much else. 13 hours ago, masterofoneinchpunch said: Random note: Adam Cheng was married to Lydia Shum (a popular TV actress) a few years later. Huh. They were together for a number of years, were married for two, and then separated several months after their daughter was born. Joyce seems to have inherited her mother's...er...bone structure. 13 hours ago, masterofoneinchpunch said: This is loosely based on the book The Seven Heroes and Five Gallants (1879; Where can I get an English translation of this?) which has had many adaptions in movie and TV. What other movies have been based on the source material? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member whitesnake Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 The Seven Heroes and Five Gallants novel - Do a search on Amazon under "Books" for that title - available in English (Panda Series), hardback and pb, both new and used. Also check eBay. The book is available there today under a variety of prices. I found a copy of the Panda Series novel in SF Chinatown years ago, thoroughly enjoyed it, added it to my library. Cat vs Rat on DVD - check on eBay, several copies available in a variety of prices today. As for other movies about Judge Bao, Google search for "movies about Judge Bao", and lots of titles show up. On Amazon, search for Judge Bao under "Movies & TV" and an English-sub TV series with English subs is available, along with several titles for rent on Prime Video. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member BornToDefense Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 One of the reasons I like your writeups is that this is the only place I can go where I'll get a well thought out Cat vs Rat/The Tin Drum comparison. You really should write a book. I've always liked Fu Sheng, as well as Lau Kar Leung's comedy, but haven't seen Cat vs Rat yet either so can't comment on his performance there. Always got the impression this was one of Lau's sillier movies. Will probably seek it out now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 hour ago, whitesnake said: The Seven Heroes and Five Gallants novel - Do a search on Amazon under "Books" for that title - available in English (Panda Series), hardback and pb, both new and used. Also check eBay. The book is available there today under a variety of prices. I found a copy of the Panda Series novel in SF Chinatown years ago, thoroughly enjoyed it, added it to my library. ... I have Cat vs. Rat on DVD (R0, but it seems to be a perfect book of an IVL); I will be doing a tweet thread with pictures later today. I saw that edition on Amazon after I posted here, but it was sold out. But your mention of ebay is probably the best way to go (though I'm in no hurry right now so I'll just keep checking on Amazon for a bit and then ebay later this year if it does not pop up) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 2 hours ago, DrNgor said: ... They were together for a number of years, were married for two, and then separated several months after their daughter was born. Joyce seems to have inherited her mother's...er...bone structure. What other movies have been based on the source material? The big one is the 1994 TV series. That was after Justice Pao in 1993 (236 episodes that is cool). A Mainland series in 2016 (Three Heroes and Five Gallants). What is annoying is how little this movie is in Hong Kong books. If I do a proper review/essay of this I will have to dig a lot deeper. This also annoys me on some of the limitations of both HKMDB and IMDB in dealing with character searches (and of course the variety of names/spellings for these characters in the movie and Hong Kong films in general). When you see more Fu Sheng tell me more on what you think of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 39 minutes ago, BornToDefense said: One of the reasons I like your writeups is that this is the only place I can go where I'll get a well thought out Cat vs Rat/The Tin Drum comparison. You really should write a book. I've always liked Fu Sheng, as well as Lau Kar Leung's comedy, but haven't seen Cat vs Rat yet either so can't comment on his performance there. Always got the impression this was one of Lau's sillier movies. Will probably seek it out now. Thank you. It definitely is one of Lau's sillier films, but Lau has almost always used comedy in his movies, but like John Ford when he uses it too much I feel it hurts the film. Now I tend to be OK with Fu Sheng, just in this film I wanted to strangle him. Plus he goes to 11 on his character (Spinal Tap reference) and Full Annoyance (Tropic Thunder, never go full annoyance) which for me hurt his relationship with everyone else because it stretches the credibility way too far (there has to be a limit captain). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 And one of the more annoying moves in martial arts: the royal finger: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DrNgor Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 5 hours ago, masterofoneinchpunch said: What is annoying is how little this movie is in Hong Kong books. If I do a proper review/essay of this I will have to dig a lot deeper. This also annoys me on some of the limitations of both HKMDB and IMDB in dealing with character searches (and of course the variety of names/spellings for these characters in the movie and Hong Kong films in general). Did you read @teako170's book about Fu Sheng? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, DrNgor said: Did you read @teako170's book about Fu Sheng? Not yet, so far I've just been using it for reference. I will do a reading of it this year, highlights and take notes as well. Did you read it? Edited February 8, 2023 by masterofoneinchpunch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DrNgor Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 hour ago, masterofoneinchpunch said: Not yet, so far I've just been using it for reference. I will do a reading of it this year, highlights and take notes as well. Did you read it? @paimeifist bought a copy for me, but the package was either lost or stolen (presumably by dishonest people in Brazilian customs). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 8, 2023 Member Share Posted February 8, 2023 17 minutes ago, DrNgor said: Paimeifist bought a copy for me, but the package was either lost or stolen (presumably by dishonest people in Brazilian customs). I'll post all my notes of it when I do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Super Ninja Posted February 9, 2023 Member Share Posted February 9, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 4:37 PM, DrNgor said: What other movies have been based on the source material? King Cat (1967). Supposedly House of Traps as well. There's more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShawAngela Posted February 9, 2023 Member Share Posted February 9, 2023 36 minutes ago, Super Ninja said: King Cat (1967). Supposedly House of Traps as well. There's more. I confirm that House of traps is related to Seven Heroes and Five Gallants, who are Judge Bao's helpers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShawAngela Posted February 9, 2023 Member Share Posted February 9, 2023 King cat and Cat vs Rat tell stories about Bai Yu Tang, who is played by Chin Siu Ho in House of Traps. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 9, 2023 Member Share Posted February 9, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 7:37 AM, DrNgor said: On 2/7/2023 at 5:52 PM, masterofoneinchpunch said: Random note: Adam Cheng was married to Lydia Shum (a popular TV actress) a few years later. Huh. They were together for a number of years, were married for two, and then separated several months after their daughter was born. Joyce seems to have inherited her mother's...er...bone structure. What was Lydia Shum's relationship to Alexander Fu Sheng is this film? It says "Bai's mother" on HKMDB, but I could have sworn that was never uttered in the movie (and she looks way too young). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShawAngela Posted February 9, 2023 Member Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, masterofoneinchpunch said: What was Lydia Shum's relationship to Alexander Fu Sheng is this film? It says "Bai's mother" on HKMDB, but I could have sworn that was never uttered in the movie (and she looks way too young). It seems to me that the English subtitles said mother too, or maybe it was her who called him her son, I don't remember... I should revisit it, then ! What is sure is that she was the "chief" of Bai Yu Tang's family. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 9, 2023 Member Share Posted February 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, ShawAngela said: It seems to me that the English subtitles said mother too, or maybe it was her who called him her son, I don't remember... I should revisit it, then ! What is sure is that she was the "chief" of Bai Yu Tang's family. She was definitely bossing him around, but it also made me think of the either "Big Sister" or "Auntie." Her looking so young made no sense for a mother. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 10, 2023 Member Share Posted February 10, 2023 @DrNgor So when (what time period) do you think this film takes place? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DrNgor Posted February 11, 2023 Member Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 hour ago, masterofoneinchpunch said: @DrNgor So when (what time period) do you think this film takes place? According to the Wikipedia entry on the novel, the story is set in tbe 1000s during the Song Dynasty. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 11, 2023 Member Share Posted February 11, 2023 21 minutes ago, DrNgor said: According to the Wikipedia entry on the novel, the story is set in tbe 1000s during the Song Dynasty. Yeah, the only clue in the film (other than being influenced by the book) is the emperor's seal and the name on it (though I'm not sure they ever directly call him by name -- also not sure you were supposed to do that with an emperor hee hee), 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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