Member vengeanceofhumanlanterns Posted October 28, 2009 Member Share Posted October 28, 2009 Despite the loopholes in storyline, One Armed Swordsmen in attitude and action is one of my most frequented drinking films. There are a great many conceited people as well as kiss ass' in cinematic productions. He may have been just reminding these types, albeit in a very rude fashion, that they were not all they thought they were cracked up to be. I've seen a few of his interviews and he's not bragging to much about being a jerk to anyone. Though he was a bit self satisfied with being recognized for his directorial potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kungfusamurai Posted October 29, 2009 Member Share Posted October 29, 2009 I never cared for the guy's on screen persona anyway. I didn't like his fighting, I couldn't see what the big deal was about him. Just finding out what a prick he was behind the scenes just makes me want to watch his films even less. At least with a triad guy like Charles Heung, you might not agree with his families criminal connections, but at least he did a reasonably good job as a fighter on screen, doing various forms and such. Not like Jimmy Wang Yu, who was just content with sticking with his old school flailing arm style well into the late 70s. KFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member drunkenmaster Posted October 29, 2009 Member Share Posted October 29, 2009 I love the films of Wang Yu. Most have a quality of weirdness that makes them stand out from a lot of the mundane films HK were producing at the time. The fact that he was not the nicest guy on the block doesn't surprise me, nor does it put me off watching his films. I watched that "Not Quite Hollywood" documentary and the Wang Yu was a complete prima dona to work with section was not news to me. It has been reported several times before. In fact I'm sure there is a long list of actors and directors who act like God given the chance. Wang Yu certainly doesn't hold the manopoly on that. At the end of the day it's the product that counts. If you just don't like his films because they don't appeal to you, fine. But I refuse to base my judgement of art on the personality of any individual artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member dionbrother Posted October 29, 2009 Member Share Posted October 29, 2009 I recently watched MY SON, a late 60s attempt to make Jimmy a cross between James Dean and Steve McQueen. I loved it. Jimmy had an acting ability and tough guy presence on the level of say Lee Marvin or Oliver Reed. In contrast to the femme pop idols attempting to be action stars in Chinese cinema these days, its a breath of fresh air. If you watch flicks like SEAMAN NO.7, you can see Jimmy was way ahead on the rough stuntwork and modern fighting years before POLICE STORY. I think many form their opinions on him via some of the quickies he made in Taiwan, which is like judging Jackie Chan by his 90s movies or Bruce Lee by GAME OF DEATH. Hopefully, Fortune Star will release more of his Golden Harvest work on dvd. I must order BEACH OF THE WAR GODS soon, as that is the best Hong Kong Kurosawa knockoff ever! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DeathFuMaster Posted October 30, 2009 Member Share Posted October 30, 2009 Does anybody know all of his DVD released with a eng dub? I can be any region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member chen lung Posted October 30, 2009 Member Share Posted October 30, 2009 Until Fortune Star remaster 'Seaman No 7' in HD (not likely), it's going to be the best DVD available. The site announced it (don't read the synopsis as it's got spoilers) and it's now available (DTM stock it). It's not a great film, but those who love bashers should enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Yakuza954 Posted October 30, 2009 Member Share Posted October 30, 2009 Not like Jimmy Wang Yu, who was just content with sticking with his old school flailing arm style well into the late 70s. KFS The thing is, Jimmy Wang Yu didn't really make any kung fu movies in the late 70's. His last real kung fu films were in '77, and the real heart of the 'shapes' era was from '78-'81. If you actually look at the films he was involved in during the zenith of his career, during the late 60's-mid 70's, many of them were advanced for their time. Movies like the Sword of Swords, The Sword, Master of the Flying Guillotine, Two Cavaliers, the Return of the Two Chinese Boxer, and A Man Called Tiger still have ending action sequences that freak me out because of how insanely good they are, both in a choreography and storytelling sense. That's one thing that always made Jimmy's movies stand out to me--they always felt like they worked on a different level than most of the "bash them till they drop" kung fu films of the time. Whether it was watching Jimmy wang Yu set up intricate booby traps at the end of the Return of the Chinese Boxer and Master of the Flying Guillotine for pure survival, or watching him battle several elements at once during the Sword, for example: nature (the snow), his ego (himself), the sword (materialism) and the futile traditions of martial arts (his opponent, the old swordsman), Jimmy was often able to turn on parts of my brain that I didn't even know I could use during a martial arts movie. On top of that, he was one of the few guys in the industry who was successful both behind the camera and in front of it--often doing both at once. He mentioned that he often looked toward Toshiru Mifune and Shintaro Katsu for inspiration, and it showed during his movies. Sure, the man played the crippled route a few too many times. Yeah, some of his wu xia films were more sleep-inducing than memorable, and was he an ass in real life? Probably. But still, not many others knew how to consistently shoot scenes like this one: -Yours truly, Jimmy's biggest nuthugger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member dionbrother Posted October 30, 2009 Member Share Posted October 30, 2009 He also told the Shaws to go to hell, which took balls the size of church bells back in those days. His movies had a seriousness, style and gravitas lacking from the competition of the early 70s. Not to mention Jimmy was closer to a man's man than say Charles Heung or Liang Jia Ren. He came off like a proud womanizer, drinker and legit tough guy, something Jackie Chan or Tan Tao Liang couldn't capture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Yeah, but Tan could've taken Wang's head off with one of his kicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member dionbrother Posted October 30, 2009 Member Share Posted October 30, 2009 If Wang had starred in TATTOO CONNECTION, Jim Kelly would have returned to the States with broken ribs and pissing blood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jesse Smooth Posted October 30, 2009 Member Share Posted October 30, 2009 If Wang had starred in TATTOO CONNECTION, Jim Kelly would have returned to the States with broken ribs and pissing blood. Interesting scenario as it is said that Kelly liked to hit people on the sets and would cause trouble on the sets. Lee Tso-nam had said that he (Kelly) didn't like to get his as he thought it made him look weak. Now if those two were to have met... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Battle of the Egos. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted October 31, 2009 Member Share Posted October 31, 2009 Jim Kelly... Mr. Black Belt Jones: 5wtS4APtAS4&feature=related Let Jimmy Wang Yu deal with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KyFi Posted October 31, 2009 Member Share Posted October 31, 2009 ...... On top of that, he was one of the few guys in the industry who was successful both behind the camera and in front of it--often doing both at once. He mentioned that he often looked toward Toshiru Mifune and Shintaro Katsu for inspiration, and it showed during his movies. I agree with everything Yakuza954 said about his filmmaking, and I do enjoy his movies. However, given his on-screen fighting, I'm VERY dubious that he was any kind of a fighter in real life. He strikes me as one of the least athletic, least powerful screen fighters in the the history of major martial arts film stars. Maybe he was a tough-guy in other ways, maybe he was rough on the set to the people underneath him, but I'm very skeptical that he engaged in too many real fights with real martial artists with nobody around to break them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member dionbrother Posted October 31, 2009 Member Share Posted October 31, 2009 When Jackie Chan fled Lo Lieh's goons, he went to Wang Yu. Who did protect him, reportedly after a restaurant brawl, according to some rumors. Wang had a number of real life fights and confrontations. Jim Kelly was never respected by a lot of martial artist. Not Bob Wall, Pat Johnson or even Ron Van Clief (who admitted he got Jim the job on BLACK SAMURAI but then got a call from the producer complaining Jim couldn't do half the stuff RVC could). I've never been impressed by his skills, and he doesn't look too sharp in some of the grainy 1970s tournament footage on Youtube (especially if you compare him to Mike Stone). The fact that Kelly got into boxing in the late 80s and Gracie Jiujitsu is kind of telling that he was never 100% confident in his own skills. Considering he charged $75 an hour in 1976 to teach Hollywood goofs "the Jim Kelly Method" is even more telling. Wang Yu was choreographing his more realistic style with Peking Opera-trained stuntmen, and the opera influence is one reason Hong Kong stuntmen struggled with making realistic modern fight scenes for years (see STREET GANGS OF HONG KONG or THE CHINATOWN KID). When Jimmy worked with some JAC guys in SEAMAN NO.7, you notice a difference. An experienced street fighter is going to have a huge advantage over some pretty boy martial artist who wasn't even respected by his peers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jesse Smooth Posted October 31, 2009 Member Share Posted October 31, 2009 When Jackie Chan fled Lo Lieh's goons, he went to Wang Yu. Who did protect him, reportedly after a restaurant brawl, according to some rumors. Wang had a number of real life fights and confrontations. Jim Kelly was never respected by a lot of martial artist. Not Bob Wall, Pat Johnson or even Ron Van Clief (who admitted he got Jim the job on BLACK SAMURAI but then got a call from the producer complaining Jim couldn't do half the stuff RVC could). I've never been impressed by his skills, and he doesn't look too sharp in some of the grainy 1970s tournament footage on Youtube (especially if you compare him to Mike Stone). The fact that Kelly got into boxing in the late 80s and Gracie Jiujitsu is kind of telling that he was never 100% confident in his own skills. Considering he charged $75 an hour in 1976 to teach Hollywood goofs "the Jim Kelly Method" is even more telling. Wang Yu was choreographing his more realistic style with Peking Opera-trained stuntmen, and the opera influence is one reason Hong Kong stuntmen struggled with making realistic modern fight scenes for years (see STREET GANGS OF HONG KONG or THE CHINATOWN KID). When Jimmy worked with some JAC guys in SEAMAN NO.7, you notice a difference. An experienced street fighter is going to have a huge advantage over some pretty boy martial artist who wasn't even respected by his peers. Do you mean Lo Wei? Kelly had the perfect afro in the biz...now on to serious note, I've read what Bob Wall and Pat Johnson had said about Kelly in Oriental Cinema. I'm baffled on how Ron didn't be a bigger star than he did, being a better martial artist (but my theory is that the East Coast martial artists never got the deserved respect). I read the 1990 Kelly interview on blackbelt.com years ago. He says he took up boxing to supplement his karate skills. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but why so late? He also turned down the role of Kung Fu Joe in I'm Gonna Git You Sucka. He had a role in Undercover Brother that was deleted. He sabatoged his own career by making poor choices--like selling his Black Karate federation school to focus on his 'acting' career. Fred Williamson doesn't even respect him. He offered Kelly a role in Original Gangstas, but he wanted top billing and too much money. You make a point about the opera influence on modern films. Look at Bruce's films and you don't see that. Now I want to see Seaman No. 7. I also need to get the uncut Man Called Tiger. I kinda dig the JAC/Toei fighting styles as it is tailored to contemporary/urban society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted October 31, 2009 Member Share Posted October 31, 2009 Do you mean Lo Wei? Kelly had the perfect afro in the biz...now on to serious note, I've read what Bob Wall and Pat Johnson had said about Kelly in Oriental Cinema. I'm baffled on how Ron didn't be a bigger star than he did, being a better martial artist (but my theory is that the East Coast martial artists never got the deserved respect). I read the 1990 Kelly interview on blackbelt.com years ago. He says he took up boxing to supplement his karate skills. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but why so late? He also turned down the role of Kung Fu Joe in I'm Gonna Git You Sucka. He had a role in Undercover Brother that was deleted. He sabatoged his own career by making poor choices--like selling his Black Karate federation school to focus on his 'acting' career. Fred Williamson doesn't even respect him. He offered Kelly a role in Original Gangstas, but he wanted top billing and too much money. You make a point about the opera influence on modern films. Look at Bruce's films and you don't see that. Now I want to see Seaman No. 7. I also need to get the uncut Man Called Tiger. I kinda dig the JAC/Toei fighting styles as it is tailored to contemporary/urban society. I'm not too impressed with the fights in Seaman No. 7 but hey ho. In general yeah, a lot of the choreography in 70s kung fu is more performane then realism, but at times it can be very phoney. Part of this is the blame of endless long takes. Speaking frankly, although I love old kung fu films, I much prefer the choregraphy from the best classic Hollywood features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member dionbrother Posted October 31, 2009 Member Share Posted October 31, 2009 Yes, I did mean Lo Wei. Thanks for catching, would not want any body to think the beloved Shaw actor was a meanie. I think you are on to something about Van Clief's East Coast roots being a detriment. Had BLACK SAMURAI remained a New York production with Ron instead of a Al Adamson cheapie shot in Hollywood, it would have been much better. Ron was a more versatile fighter and had an easygoing screen presence as opposed to Kelly's Ali-like personality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 The problem with early 70s choreography might be that the opera stuff was too unrealistic and the realistic stuff too uncinematic! Even brawling on camera needs to look good. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jesse Smooth Posted November 1, 2009 Member Share Posted November 1, 2009 Yes, I did mean Lo Wei. Thanks for catching, would not want any body to think the beloved Shaw actor was a meanie. I think you are on to something about Van Clief's East Coast roots being a detriment. Had BLACK SAMURAI remained a New York production with Ron instead of a Al Adamson cheapie shot in Hollywood, it would have been much better. Ron was a more versatile fighter and had an easygoing screen presence as opposed to Kelly's Ali-like personality. I mean, even in karate magazines, people usually talk about the West Coast/Los Angeles/California people and events. Not to take anything away from them, but it seems like the East Coast people are ignored. People talk about Joe Lewis, Ed Parker, Mike Stone, Chuck Norris, etc. No one these days mention Aaron Banks (who had hundreds of shows compared to Ed Parker), Owen Watson, Bill Louie, Frank Ruiz or Peter Urban. Only George Tan seems to know who these people are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jesse Smooth Posted November 1, 2009 Member Share Posted November 1, 2009 The problem with early 70s choreography might be that the opera stuff was too unrealistic and the realistic stuff too uncinematic! Even brawling on camera needs to look good. lol That's why I'm digging the karate-fu/brawling styles in those bashers. One problem that I notice with kung fu is that it's been wushu-tized (another theory of mine). Wushu is beautiful to look at onscreen and works for period films, but in a modern day urban setting (in HK films, they're able to make it work), it can look silly and fake. Kung fu is a killing art! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member dionbrother Posted November 1, 2009 Member Share Posted November 1, 2009 I learned about the East Coast cats through Official Karate (NY-based, I think) and Marvel's DEADLY HANDS OF KUNG FU (also based in NY). Black Belt would only talk to Aaron Banks when they needed some off-the-wall quote. You are right, BB and IKF acted as if nothing ever happened outside of California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted November 1, 2009 Member Share Posted November 1, 2009 When Jackie Chan fled Lo Lieh's goons, he went to Wang Yu. Who did protect him, reportedly after a restaurant brawl, according to some rumors. Wang had a number of real life fights and confrontations. Jim Kelly was never respected by a lot of martial artist. Not Bob Wall, Pat Johnson or even Ron Van Clief (who admitted he got Jim the job on BLACK SAMURAI but then got a call from the producer complaining Jim couldn't do half the stuff RVC could). I've never been impressed by his skills, and he doesn't look too sharp in some of the grainy 1970s tournament footage on Youtube (especially if you compare him to Mike Stone). The fact that Kelly got into boxing in the late 80s and Gracie Jiujitsu is kind of telling that he was never 100% confident in his own skills. Considering he charged $75 an hour in 1976 to teach Hollywood goofs "the Jim Kelly Method" is even more telling. Wang Yu was choreographing his more realistic style with Peking Opera-trained stuntmen, and the opera influence is one reason Hong Kong stuntmen struggled with making realistic modern fight scenes for years (see STREET GANGS OF HONG KONG or THE CHINATOWN KID). When Jimmy worked with some JAC guys in SEAMAN NO.7, you notice a difference. An experienced street fighter is going to have a huge advantage over some pretty boy martial artist who wasn't even respected by his peers. Wow... I was simply looking to add a bit of humor. Chill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jesse Smooth Posted November 1, 2009 Member Share Posted November 1, 2009 Wow... I was simply looking to add a bit of humor. Chill. You're good Dragon. Dion did provide some cool info. BTW, here's a link to a cool online zine that covers the NY MA scene: http://martialforce.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jesse Smooth Posted November 1, 2009 Member Share Posted November 1, 2009 Aaron Banks had segments on major networks, esp. ABC's Wide World of Sports. Heck, most of his shows were at Madison Square Garden. Yet there's nothing on YouTube. You can't find anything online about him. He had an official website years ago, but that's long gone. BTW, no one seems to remember the 'legendary' Count Dante tournaments in Chicago either. I heard that Black Belt magazine didn't want any 'controversy'. If you look him up, you'll know what he was about. Seems like his shows would have been heck of a entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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