Member Omni Dragon Posted October 9, 2013 Member Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hey , it's only a movie . i don't think many kung fu movies are historically accurate . Is there actually much accurately history know about Kung Fu? There does seem to be a lot of folk tales, legends & myths. A lot seems like Style X was crated around the year Y & there's a legend added about the founder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted October 9, 2013 Member Share Posted October 9, 2013 There were some silly techniques in Shaolin Mantis, and a whole lot of "flick fu"- esoteric punches that would not hurt anyone, as there was no way to generate power from them. If someone goes into kung fu cinema with this mentality they're likely to despise 99% of the genre's output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted October 9, 2013 Member Share Posted October 9, 2013 If you can't or won't acknowledge the distiction between screen fighting and "real" fighting, you shouldn't be watching kung fu flicks. Actually, you shouldn't really be watching any films that has fighting in them at all. I use to HATE when people around me would dismiss my KF flicks because they were not "realistic", yet the would positively jizz themselves over stuff like Jurrasic Park or Independence Day... yeah, ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted October 9, 2013 Member Share Posted October 9, 2013 I can distinguish between both, but it is still preference- some people like bashers and some like shapes, while some like wire fu. I used to look down on Chen Sing, as he was not very fluid, but looking at him again, he could hurt you. Christ, he was prison guard, from what I understand. But when I was young, I believed that Kurata would easily beat him with his flashy kicks. Anyway, I watch at least 5 Kung fu movies a week lately, so I like screen fighting. It's been months since I sat through a UFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted October 9, 2013 Member Share Posted October 9, 2013 True, it's all about preference. Personally I have a pretty wide taste, though I do favor tight late 70's type shapes and energetic 80's kickboxing style to early 70's bashers and 90's wire fu. Though my main requirement is entertainment. And that usually comes from editing, cinematography, context, character etc. I love King Boxer, one of my all time faves (see my 50 fave fights thread, though im only done with 30 of them so far) because of its presentation, and components working so well. But I can barely sit through most of your average low budget swingy arm bashers, cuz i'll be bored outta my skull within five minutes. Entertainment value is everything to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member HAZ Posted October 9, 2013 Member Share Posted October 9, 2013 Entertainment value is everything to me. Well said!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted October 9, 2013 Member Share Posted October 9, 2013 It's true, King Boxer holds up, even with the mostly sloppy fighting. My preferences wan. Some years I couldn't get enough of the undercranked kickboxing stuff, then suddenly, it leaves me cold. Same with Wu Xia wire movies. When they put it in OUATIC, I was blown away. But when I saw badges of fury, I almost lost my lunch. Really, it's the story. That is why some of the ones I liked so much don't seem so great years later, and others have a certain camp value, such as "the Eunuch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted October 9, 2013 Member Share Posted October 9, 2013 Oh yeah, camp and cheese goes a long way too, and will of course also fall under entertainment value in my book. The fighting in One Armed Boxer is technically horrible, but good god damn is it a highly enjoyable romp, nonetheless. Jimmy Wang Yu is probably one of my least favorite screen fighters, but he would often fill his films with all kinds of crazyness to offset his lack of skills, making them watchable for most genre fans who liked a high camp factor with a side of thick cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member David Rees Posted August 27, 2014 Member Share Posted August 27, 2014 Found this on Youtube a fantastic trailer for Shaolin Mantis with Lau Kar Leung introduction and demo from David Chiang, Lau Kar Wing and Wilson Tong not in the film and done just for this trailer. Enjoy. AZFsLGkWIB0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShawAngela Posted August 27, 2014 Member Share Posted August 27, 2014 Suuuuuperb !!!:bigsmile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted August 27, 2014 Administrator Share Posted August 27, 2014 One of the best trailers of all time. Any chance to see extra footage not included in the film is a huge plus! Seeing this always makes me wish two things though- 1. That Lau Sifu had starred in a film as a Mantis Fist fighter, and 2. That Lau Sifu had starred in at least 50 kung fu movies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 27, 2014 Member Share Posted August 27, 2014 Great find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted August 27, 2014 Member Share Posted August 27, 2014 Again, I have to remind you guys that at the time, a lot of real Mantis fist masters took this movie as a total slap in the face. LKL was not an expert, and, the story implies that Mantis fist was created by a traitor to the state that was killed by his own father in an honor killing. Yes, it's just a movie, but if someone made a movie that had Hung Gar proponents as gang enforcers in republican China, I don't think LKL would be happy either. Especially after a preview where he goes on and on about how authentic this all is. Many of his fights have the thugs use some Mantis, btw, just look closely at the early shaolin cycle. What is funny is that Ba Ji Chuan, Authentic White Eye Brow and Hsing Yi are not used, as well authentic Tibetan Lama style. All these were used to some extent by the Manchus. Of course, in reality they just sent armies of soldiers with swords and even rifles and did not have any kung fu duels, but still..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 27, 2014 Member Share Posted August 27, 2014 Again, I have to remind you guys that at the time, a lot of real Mantis fist masters took this movie as a total slap in the face. LKL was not an expert, and, the story implies that Mantis fist was created by a traitor to the state that was killed by his own father in an honor killing. Yes, it's just a movie, but if someone made a movie that had Hung Gar proponents as gang enforcers in republican China, I don't think LKL would be happy either. Especially after a preview where he goes on and on about how authentic this all is. Many of his fights have the thugs use some Mantis, btw, just look closely at the early shaolin cycle. What is funny is that Ba Ji Chuan, Authentic White Eye Brow and Hsing Yi are not used, as well authentic Tibetan Lama style. All these were used to some extent by the Manchus. Of course, in reality they just sent armies of soldiers with swords and even rifles and did not have any kung fu duels, but still..... So, the trend of bad guys using Mantis comes from here ? I read somewhere (some time ago, and I don't remember the source) that the Mantis styles are actually pretty much always used by bad guys in MA/KF movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShawAngela Posted August 27, 2014 Member Share Posted August 27, 2014 Did you watch his early Cantonese movies ? Of course, he wasn't the lead in all of them, but he played in a lot of kung fu movies from the 50's-60's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted August 27, 2014 Member Share Posted August 27, 2014 Found this on Youtube a fantastic trailer for Shaolin Mantis with Lau Kar Leung introduction and demo from David Chiang, Lau Kar Wing and Wilson Tong not in the film and done just for this trailer. Enjoy. AZFsLGkWIB0 My phone isn't showing this. Is this the trailer that's on the Dragon Dynasty 36th Chamber DVD? Definitely my favorite trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member slinky Posted August 28, 2014 Member Share Posted August 28, 2014 Seeing this always makes me wish two things though- 1. That Lau Sifu had starred in a film as a Mantis Fist fighter, and 2. That Lau Sifu had starred in at least 50 kung fu movies! I agree completely except maybe quadruple the movie count. I mean There was only one person like him in my opinion that is for sure at least to this date and time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member RogueWarrior Posted August 28, 2014 Member Share Posted August 28, 2014 Rare? Its on the R1 Dragon Dynasty DVD. (one of them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted August 28, 2014 Member Share Posted August 28, 2014 Rare? Its on the R1 Dragon Dynasty DVD. (one of them) Yeah it's one the 36th Chamber DVD. Before this DVD came out I think it was considered a rare trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted August 28, 2014 Member Share Posted August 28, 2014 Such a fantastic flick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member David Rees Posted August 28, 2014 Member Share Posted August 28, 2014 Didnt know it was on the Dragon Dynasty release, thats great, i only have the Hong Kong dvd and im sure its not on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted August 28, 2014 Administrator Share Posted August 28, 2014 Again, I have to remind you guys that at the time, a lot of real Mantis fist masters took this movie as a total slap in the face. LKL was not an expert, and, the story implies that Mantis fist was created by a traitor to the state that was killed by his own father in an honor killing. So was there a lot of backlash from the kung fu community because of this? I can understand why they would be upset by their art's origin being told like that. I always thought that this was a strange twisted plot. I like that it wasn't run-of-the-mill, but just found the hero is an anti-hero thing odd here. Yes, it's just a movie, but if someone made a movie that had Hung Gar proponents as gang enforcers in republican China, I don't think LKL would be happy either. Especially after a preview where he goes on and on about how authentic this all is. Good point. AMany of his fights have the thugs use some Mantis, btw, just look closely at the early shaolin cycle. What is funny is that Ba Ji Chuan, Authentic White Eye Brow and Hsing Yi are not used, as well authentic Tibetan Lama style. All these were used to some extent by the Manchus. Of course, in reality they just sent armies of soldiers with swords and even rifles and did not have any kung fu duels, but still..... Still, compared to most of the swingy arm fights and blatant flying that came before, Lau Sifu brought real kung fu to those Shaolin Cycle films. Perhaps not the specific styles that everyone should have been using, but still a huge leap forward in both action choreography and the depiction of on-screen kung fu. You do what you know. I'm sure he wanted to put his best foot forward with his kung fu scenes, so he didn't step too far away from his best known skill set. Sure, he has depicted Muai Thai, Karate and other styles in his films, but never front and center. I love what he did with the Mantis Fist in this film, even if it wouldn't make for a realistic guide to what the art or it's origins truly are. I think that a lot of the time Mantis and Tiger style were used for villains based on their menacing appearance when used. They just have a wicked look to them. Iron-wire finger simply doesn't have the visual flair that a Mantis Fist hand does. So, the trend of bad guys using Mantis comes from here ? Hmmm... I don't know that I'd attribute Mantis Fist's frequent use as the villain's fighting style just to this film. But it may have had an impact on moving in that direction. I read somewhere (some time ago, and I don't remember the source) that the Mantis styles are actually pretty much always used by bad guys in MA/KF movies. Based on all the kung fu films I've seen (more than you can shake a stick at... unless you wanted to have a really tired arm), I feel that Snake style may have been used by villains in more films, or at least just as many as Mantis was. Did you watch his early Cantonese movies ? Of course, he wasn't the lead in all of them, but he played in a lot of kung fu movies from the 50's-60's... I wish I could say that I've seen them all, but unfortunately that's not the case. I've seen very few of them. Mainly just a dozen or so of the Kwan Tak-Hing black and white Wong Fei-Hung movies. I'd love to see more though. My phone isn't showing this. Is this the trailer that's on the Dragon Dynasty 36th Chamber DVD? Definitely my favorite trailer. Yes, that's right. Strangely, I don't think it appears on Dragon Dynasty's release of SHAOLIN MANTIS though. I agree completely except maybe quadruple the movie count. I mean There was only one person like him in my opinion that is for sure at least to this date and time. Okay, I'm on board with that. If only... Rare? Its on the R1 Dragon Dynasty DVD. (one of them) Apparently it's rare to some people. Maybe it it didn't take 4 years from the time IVL/Celestial released 36TH CHAMBER OF SHAOLIN until Dragon Dynasty put it out, more fans would have seen this trailer. But instead, a lot of people bought bootleg copies made from the IVL release (which didn't have the SHAOLIN MANTIS trailer) in the interim. Yeah it's one the 36th Chamber DVD. Before this DVD came out I think it was considered a rare trailer. Didnt know it was on the Dragon Dynasty release, thats great, i only have the Hong Kong dvd and im sure its not on that. I can't recall if this trailer was on the IVL/Celestial DVD of SHAOLIN MANTIS or not. I own both that and the DD release, so I can check. Either way, thanks to David for posting it for those that haven't seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 28, 2014 Member Share Posted August 28, 2014 Good point concerning the heavy use of Tiger and Snake styles by bad guys, KFB. I had read about Mantis being heavily used, but Snake and Tiger are also recurring styles for baddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted August 28, 2014 Member Share Posted August 28, 2014 KFB, I had heard from a friend who was heavily into Mantis at the time. Also, he mentioned that the mantis fist itself, was really used almost exclusively for grasping and that the style, at least in it's modern application, was more concerned with simultaneous block or parry and punch, with a closed fist. Some people have written that the shapes in a lot of styles are primarily for exercise and not used for combat, and I have heard the same about the horse stance, as well as some other stances and kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member theThirdMaster Posted January 13, 2015 Member Share Posted January 13, 2015 Bumping an old thread... Just watched this for the first time and really enjoyed it. I love LKL's sense of humor when it comes to the flirty/mischievous wife and the protagonist (ala Heroes of the East), and this movie had some of that going. I found it genuinely funny. The fights were really something, although maybe none of them stand out much from one another. Just solid choreography and editing, and PLENTY of it. LKL's ability to make a 2 to 1 or a 3 to 1 fight look like the defender is actually defending 3 attackers is on full display here. And any complaints that David Chiang lacks on screen kung fu skills, just show them this movie. Definitely the bloodiest LKL flick I've seen, thought I've not seen them all. I usually think of his movies as the PG friendliest of the major Shaw directors. Not that this movie is particularly gory compared to others. I thought the silhouette shots were really cool too. Not sure about that ending tho, definitely took me off guard. I think I'll just pretend it didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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