Member Bruce Posted September 17, 2009 Member Share Posted September 17, 2009 I recently watched B13-Ultimatum on dvd & it's given me a new appreciation for the film career of Jackie Chan (as well as Sammo Hung, &, to a somewhat lesser degree, Yuen Biao, as well). Cyril Raffaelle & David Belle have great potential as action moviestars but here they are, basically two two starring roles into their movie careers & they're already running out of creative ideas. Maybe they're just not working with the right directors &/or choreagraphers (their highlight reels on youtube are way more impressive than anything in their actual movies). Tony Jaa's career seems to be going the same way; he made, in my opinion, two good action/martial arts films then appeared to begin to falter with Ong Bak 2 (lots of action, but none of it quite up to the level of the original). I'd like to see these modern action stars team up with someone like Sammo Hung as a choreagrapher/stunt coordinator, maybe then they could live up to their film potential. Anyway, seeing these obviously very talented young guys already beginning to fade gives me renewed appreciation for guys like Jackie who made great, fresh, creative movies that didn't disappoint for, what, a stretch of 15 years or so? Jackie's movies lately may not live up to the high standards he set for himself in his prime (I haven't even bothered watching Shinjuku Incident), but he made exciting, creative, unique, enjoyable movies consistently for, what, a 15 year stretch from the late 70s into the early 90s? Wow. For me, sort of a litmus test for the quality of an action movie is how many times I can watch it (or at least it's best scenes) without getting tired of it: B13-Ultimatum? Once, & even then I fast forwarded through much of it. Ong Bak 2? Once was enough (also with fast forwarding). But with Jackie, Sammo, & Biao's classics I watched their best scenes over & over & still enjoy them once in a while. These new guys may actually be able to do some physical stunts/moves the Hong Kong stars never could've, but nobody beats the old masters in creative output & career longevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member lillippa328 Posted September 18, 2009 Member Share Posted September 18, 2009 hell yea...even 2006's Rob B Hood Jackie's fight scenes are still increadible entertaining.... the one with Yuen Biao is great! (Yuen slowed down a little bit tho it seems ... but you can see how well Jackie still is!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdvyoILxlZA and the stunts he did were still fun! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLM6xWVxJFM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted September 18, 2009 Member Share Posted September 18, 2009 I think it's wrong to say certain actors are fading out due to one or two shabby performances. If we all thought Jackie Chan was fading during the time he made "Fearless Hyena 2" then that would really be a foolish lack of faith. I, for one, believe in potential. Nobody doubts Robert DeNiro's acting ability just because he starred in "The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle" so why should we doubt martial arts stars just because they have a bad turn? I, for one, think the action finale of "Ong Bak 2" was mouth watering and some of the most exciting modern action I have seen. We, the fans of the martial arts genre, are too quick to dismiss people due to our own expectations. After watching the dismal "Kung Fu Chefs" I still have faith Sammo will deliver in "Ip Man 2." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Bruce Posted September 18, 2009 Author Member Share Posted September 18, 2009 I think the guys from B13 & Tony Jaa have tons of potential to make absolutely mind boggling movies, I hope they do. I do think it would help if they could work with some of the guys from Hong Kong like Jackie or Sammo. Part of the problem with the B13 movies was how (camera angles) they were shot & (over)edited, the old timers from HK would know better. As for Ong Bak 2, I thought some of the action kind of became repetetive, &, considering the fact that an experienced director was brought in to help Tony finish the movie, the ending was an abrupt non-ending. What did the new director contribute? Of course, I will be watching the next one & hoping for good things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Grimmjow Posted September 18, 2009 Member Share Posted September 18, 2009 It's interesting what you are all saying, there have been a lot of people come around who are very talented and everyone starts saying they are the next big thing only for them to falter and disappear yet Jackie and Sammo were on top and consistant for a good 15 plus years, deserves much respect and is why they are legends! I do worry about Tony Jaa, the early promise he showed with Ong Bak and then Tom Yum Goong seems to be disappearing a little. Ong Bak 2 certainately had some good fights but the story was kinda meh and the fact it took so long and went so over budget.....well I was expecting a lot more, it's been quiet about Ong Bak 3 which was supposed to finish the story, word was it would be released in Dec but no trailers as yet and its middle Sept!! Plus maybe Tony Jaa dosn't have the head for it, a lot of negativity come of the set of Ong Bak 2 with his break down and talk of him wanting to retire then holding out for money and all sorts or rumours, seems like maybe he isn't mentally there for the years of hard work and sacrifice that Jackie, Sammo and others had to endure to stay on top. Time will tell I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member HyperDrive Posted September 19, 2009 Member Share Posted September 19, 2009 If only Panna Rittikrai was younger or had access to what Jackie and Sammo did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member lillippa328 Posted September 19, 2009 Member Share Posted September 19, 2009 speaking of stunts, wat did yall think of Born 2 Fight? it was 04, and had some damn good stunt work in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Mr. Pink Posted September 20, 2009 Member Share Posted September 20, 2009 I think the problem nowadays is that nobody has the drive that they did in the 70s/80s. If Tony Jaa was putting out as many movies as Jackie and Sammo back in their hay days, then there would be enough good to balance out the kinda average qualities of Ong Bak 2. But the fact is that he's only starred in 3 movies in 6 years, so anticipation is pretty high for anything he makes. And Born to Fight had decent/ridiculous fights and amazing stunts. And I enjoyed the propaganda a bit too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member HyperDrive Posted September 20, 2009 Member Share Posted September 20, 2009 Panna Rittkrai did a real nice job integrating classic Thai action into modern cinema with Born to Fight. It was probably made easier by having Dan Chupong star in it and reinventing the plot from Kerd Ma Lui (the original Born to Fight). I found it awesome that he got real Thai athletes and then incorporated their sports into the action. If you ever get a chance to watch a Panna movie from the 70's/80's, do it. Each one of them has a ton of full contact fighting and stunts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member jiujitsu77 Posted September 20, 2009 Member Share Posted September 20, 2009 hyperdrive, you are so f'n correct it's ridiculous. panna is the manna that being said, i will ALWAYS have a spot in my heart and dvd collection for jackie. he gave me some good times.....as a kid with friends, reinacting fight scenes, and at the movies as a teenager....getting into fight scenes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WuxiaFan Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I think it's wrong to say certain actors are fading out due to one or two shabby performances. If we all thought Jackie Chan was fading during the time he made "Fearless Hyena 2" then that would really be a foolish lack of faith. I, for one, believe in potential. Nobody doubts Robert DeNiro's acting ability just because he starred in "The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle" so why should we doubt martial arts stars just because they have a bad turn? I, for one, think the action finale of "Ong Bak 2" was mouth watering and some of the most exciting modern action I have seen. We, the fans of the martial arts genre, are too quick to dismiss people due to our own expectations. After watching the dismal "Kung Fu Chefs" I still have faith Sammo will deliver in "Ip Man 2." Very well said, DM! Jackie has made several bad movies, but they're overshadowed by his masterpieces or by the fight scenes alone. WHEALS ON MEALS is a perfect example (IMO): the movie itself is just stupid, but an absolute must have if for not the Jackie - Benny fight alone! Look at Jet Li. Not all of his movies are great, too. How about THE ONE, perhaps one of the absolute worst movies ever made (IMO). But again, overshadowed by his masterpieces: HERO, FEARLESS, SHAOLIN TEMPLE, etc. etc. Just about every actor/actress has bad movies in their career. Some just have more bad than good, such as Wu Jing and Jean Claude Van Dame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Coges Posted October 12, 2009 Member Share Posted October 12, 2009 Regardless of how bad a JC movie was it always featured some entertaining fights. Just think of gorgeous. He is always incorporating his environment and new moves. The new fad of Muay Thai in films is always going to be limited because you are essentially making a kickboxing movie. I found Ong Bak 2 ridiculously repetitive. Also, watching Chocolate the other day was the same thing. Good movie. Repetitive action. Teep, teep, roundhouse. That was the movie in a nutshell. The actors also don't have the presence of JC, Jet, Donnie or Sammo of the old days. They will eventually have to stray from the revenge storyline to expand on their movie making ability the same way that others have before them if they want to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member AlbertV Posted October 13, 2009 Member Share Posted October 13, 2009 Rittikrai clearly has done his homework. I mean hell, he even made horror look good when he played the titular Spirited Killer. His recent production, Power Kids (he supervised the action with main cohort Banlu Srisaeng choreographing), showed what he can do with teens in the lead roles. In Kerd Ma Lui, the two kids who played Rittikrai's students were actual teen members of his stunt team. They were also in Spirited Killer, but obviously more older. I agree with Drunken Monk. The fact remains that not everyone can make the best films. They have to hit bumps now and again. Even Yuen Biao has had his share of pretty bad movies (The Hunted Hunter), but he still has hit stuff together for the most part. Personally, there's nothing wrong with stars trying to go outside of the box. Look at Jackie Chan. Sure he's made some godawful films and yes, he will be always known for his martial arts films, but I personally enjoyed Shinjuku Incident. I'm curious to see how Jet Li will fare when Ocean Paradise comes out. Plus, there are martial artists who may have done their share of MA films, but also show their best not to be typecast as action heroes off the bat. Perfect example, Michael Jai White. He's done his share of martial arts films, but has done films outside of MA, such as Ringmaster, Why Did I Get Married?, Trois 2...of course, he's going to be known for Undisputed 2, Spawn, and Blood and Bone. However, he has personally done other films to show he is an "all-around" actor and not just a martial arts actor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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