A message to Media Blasters on their Shaw Brother DVD releases

[The Running Man]

I'm making this thread in light of the news of Media Blasters new acquisitions for Shaw Brother films. I feel that with the DVDs they have released so far, Media Blasters has become the top company for releasing Shaw Brother films in the US. They've also been noticeably improving in areas since their first release which is a great thing.

However, there is still room for improvement so I want send them a message in regards to mostly the English subtitles:

1) Please make sure that the subs are proof read thoroughly as there are times when grammar slip-ups do appear. Also, while a great job is done already in improving the subs a lot, please make sure that no simplification are allowed of any kind. If it's in the original dialog, then it should be in the new English subs regardless of how the Celestial subs had them.

2) For any subs that are made for letterboxed non-anamorphic video, please make the subs 16:9 friendly. The Master release is a perfect example of this. While the non-anamorphic video zoomed up to a widescreen TV was still better than IVL DVD with it's shoddy 16:9 transfer, it was useless to do so because the subs were not 16:9 friendly. They would get cut off and were not readable. This was a big mistake.

So in the future, if there happen to be any films that can't be released in a 16:9 video, then please place the subs so that they will appear perfectly when zoomed in on a 16:9 set. This also goes for any extras that are letterboxed but not 16:9 video (i.e. trailer).

3) Translate the untranslated section of the opening credit titles. Thankfully, Media Blasters already has their translators cover many untranslated signs/text that appear in the films that weren't in the original Celestial subs. That's great. However, the opening credits in the films feature sections that aren't translated on screen. Please have those covered in the new and improved subtitles as well.

4) Media Blasters said that they'll be continuing to get both Cantonese and Mandarin tracks whenever they are available for a film. That's great. However, it needs to be stressed that they need to get their translators to base the subs on the appropriate Chinese dialect for each film.

Two of the films in the first batch had subs that were incorrectly based off the Mandarin tracks when it should've been Cantonese. These films were: The Master and Martial Club

While at first glance it might not mean much to someone who wouldn't know the difference, to people who do know there are differences in things such as character names, terms and also in dialog as sometimes they might even have more or less than the other Chinese track dialog.

So unless Media Blasters is willing like to make two English sub tracks for each Chinese dialect track (which would be really neat actually) then they have to make sure that each film's subs are being worked on from the official track. In this new batch these are the official tracks for them (correct me if I am wrong guys):

KID WITH THE GOLDEN ARM - Mandarin

IRON BODYGUARD - Mandarin

LION VS. LION - Cantonese

MAGNIFICENT RUFFIANS - Mandarin

BRAVE ARCHER 2 - Mandarin

THE REBEL INTRUDERS - Mandarin

BRAVE ARCHER 3 - Mandarin

THE LADY IS THE BOSS - Cantonese

MASKED AVENGERS - Mandarin

CHINATOWN KID - Mandarin

It'll be easy since the majority of the films are in Mandarin however the ones that aren't should not be over looked.

5) This one is not related to subs (at first), but I would like to pass on to Media Blasters a suggestion if they can get as many of the Celestial produced featurettes as they can and add them for future releases. I don't know if it's in their plans yet, but some of the later releases have been kinda bare. They've included some so far like the one or two of Elegant Trails featurettes one but they are others as well like the interview with Arthur Wong or the Elegant Trails that was about Alexander Fu Sheng.

I don't know how many of them there are, but if MB can request a catalog of what is available and try to include as many as they can for their releases. And if they do, to of course improve the subs on those as well.

I don't know they freely read the forum here, but if they don't if anyone has contact with them (magicpoe maybe?) please forward this link to them. I'd very much appreciate it.

In the meantime, I'll be looking forward to the new releases. Already picked up my copy of The Flag of Iron and am greatly anticipating their Five Element Ninjas for next month.

[HAZ]

For Chinatown Kid, the longer version has a Cantonese soundtrack & that's how it was shown in the Shaw Brothers theater in my town. I wonder if the long version has a Mandarin dub. It might.

I'd like to see MB translate more signage. There is a scene at the beginning of Challenge Of The Masters where people are standing in front of a huge sign & they're all reading it, but there's no translation. I'd like to read the srt. from a MB dvd against one from IVL, just to see if there really is a great difference. I don't think its much diferent than what image does. They've made some steps in the right direction with the subs. I would like to see complete re-translations, but I'm sure that budgets don't allow it.

For Chinatown Kid, MB could interview Susan Shaw. She's still active in the film business. It wouldn't be too hard to reach her, I'm sure.

http://www.alivenotdead.com/fredambroisine/HONG%2BKONG%2BFILM%2BAWARDS%2B:%2BSUSAN%2BSHAW%2BRULES--profile-136283.html

[The Running Man]

Haz,

now I remembered a thread not too long ago where you thought they were not redoing re-translations. I didn't go back to that thread because I forgot. However, I can assure you that unlike other US companies releasing Shaw Brothers DVDs, Media Blasters are doing full retranslations.

I'll come back soon and post up some comparisons between the original Celestial subs and the ones that MB redid to demonstrate to you. They are way, way better.

[HAZ]

I Posted this in another MB thread:

In MB's release of Challenge, they keep talking about a "Pao" in the english subs. They put it in italics. Its just like that in the IVL DVD. If they were translating the film, I think they would have actually told people what a Pao is. The text that follows is pretty much a word for word copy of the IVL DVD with some punched up grammar. It's exactly what Image does. There is no difference.

MB:

"In a duel, gradually merging force with mercy, combined with Qi Gong, the foe is controlled"

IVL

"In a duel, gradually merging force with mercy, combined with Qi Gong, can the foe be controlled"

[Guest Markgway]

According to the HKFA 'The Chinatown Kid' was originally released in Mandarin.

It's been too long since I saw the film for me to remember, but perhaps there was a mix of dialogue (some scenes Cantonese, some Mandarin)?

[HAZ]

According to the HKFA 'The Chinatown Kid' was originally released in Mandarin.

It's been too long since I saw the film for me to remember, but perhaps there was a mix of dialogue (some scenes Cantonese, some Mandarin)?

That could be. I know a guy with an audio recording of the long cut taken in the projection booth at the local Shaw cinema & that is in Cantonese. I guess they have a Mandarin track for the long cut, too.

[OldPangYau]

That could be. I know a guy with an audio recording of the long cut taken in the projection booth at the local Shaw cinema & that is in Cantonese.

Huh... match that up with the export print, and we've got a DVD

[chen lung]

I Posted this in another MB thread:

In MB's release of Challenge, they keep talking about a "Pao" in the english subs. They put it in italics. Its just like that in the IVL DVD. If they were translating the film, I think they would have actually told people what a Pao is. The text that follows is pretty much a word for word copy of the IVL DVD with some punched up grammar. It's exactly what Image does. There is no difference.

MB:

"In a duel, gradually merging force with mercy, combined with Qi Gong, the foe is controlled"

IVL

"In a duel, gradually merging force with mercy, combined with Qi Gong, can the foe be controlled"

I think that sentence should be:

"In a duel, by gradually merging force with mercy and

combined with Qi Gong, the foe can be contained."

When Celestial provide their set:

Image: Corrected presentation.

MB: Improved translation.

I believe Image DVDs seem to have better grammar than MB.

[Guest Markgway]

I have seen a Chang Cheh film that was primarily Mandarin but had Cantonese scenes (for specific characters) but damned if I can remember what it was.

Best bet would be to monitor the film with both Cantonese and Mandarin soundtracks and see which language Fu Sheng is speaking (lip-synced to).

[kungfusamurai]

Here's another one, that's been buried in other threads: Media Blasters, don't worry about the cardboard slip covers. Save that money and spend it on featurettes or audio commentary!

Since Chinatown Kid has somewhat radically different versions, I think there's really only one choice: Have 2 discs, one for each version, or have the 2 versions on a dual layer disc. If they don't include audio commentary or any other bonus features, I think having 2 versions on 1 disc should be able to fit on a DVD-9. Since Chang Cheh had two separate visions for the film (or maybe it was the Shaw Bros), they should remain intact. I wouldn't want to have the long version, and then have the short version's ending as a bonus feature. Heck, they could even use the same scenes bounce back between the two versions on the same disc. In other words, you don't need to have 1 1/2 hrs of disc space for one, and 2 hrs for the other, or whatever those running times are. Since each version shares the same scenes, it's just a matter of which version you picked that would determine which scenes are played and what are not.

I hope that wordy explanation makes sense.

KFS

[OldPangYau]

Here's another one, that's been buried in other threads: Media Blasters, don't worry about the cardboard slip covers. Save that money and spend it on featurettes or audio commentary!

Since Chinatown Kid has somewhat radically different versions, I think there's really only one choice: Have 2 discs, one for each version, or have the 2 versions on a dual layer disc. If they don't include audio commentary or any other bonus features, I think having 2 versions on 1 disc should be able to fit on a DVD-9. Since Chang Cheh had two separate visions for the film (or maybe it was the Shaw Bros), they should remain intact. I wouldn't want to have the long version, and then have the short version's ending as a bonus feature. Heck, they could even use the same scenes bounce back between the two versions on the same disc. In other words, you don't need to have 1 1/2 hrs of disc space for one, and 2 hrs for the other, or whatever those running times are. Since each version shares the same scenes, it's just a matter of which version you picked that would determine which scenes are played and what are not.

I hope that wordy explanation makes sense.

KFS

I say go for two discs, one cut on each. Seamless branching would be a pain in the ass due to all of the alternate footage (not just the ending). So I say have the current shorter Mandarin print on disc 1 and the extended print on disc 2 (with English and Cantonese audio). I wouldn't want to cram both versions onto one dual layer disc, as they usually estimate that once you go over 3 hours on a dual layer disc, compression artifacts may slowly begin to creep in.

As for the slipboard covers... at least do it for Five Elements Ninjas so it matches the other 9 DVDs of batch one... then if you want, you can ditch them

[chen lung]

Here's another one, that's been buried in other threads: Media Blasters, don't worry about the cardboard slip covers. Save that money and spend it on featurettes or audio commentary!

Agreed. However, I feel uneasy when cases don't match the rest - I believe a number of others feel the same.

Slipcases:

1) are a waste of money.

2) are environmentally unfriendly.

2) degrade eventually.

3) don't fit into tailored DVD shelves.

They may look attractive to the average joe, but the whole novelty can just wear away. They don't have that much appeal to me, especially when they're not 2-disc editions.

Since Chinatown Kid has somewhat radically different versions, I think there's really only one choice: Have 2 discs, one for each version, or have the 2 versions on a dual layer disc. If they don't include audio commentary or any other bonus features, I think having 2 versions on 1 disc should be able to fit on a DVD-9. Since Chang Cheh had two separate visions for the film (or maybe it was the Shaw Bros), they should remain intact. I wouldn't want to have the long version, and then have the short version's ending as a bonus feature. Heck, they could even use the same scenes bounce back between the two versions on the same disc. In other words, you don't need to have 1 1/2 hrs of disc space for one, and 2 hrs for the other, or whatever those running times are. Since each version shares the same scenes, it's just a matter of which version you picked that would determine which scenes are played and what are not.

I don't know if they'll:

1) include the longer version with the Malaysian ending as an extra.

2) seamlessly branch both versions.

3) make it a 2-disc set with all versions.

4) put both versions on a DVD-9.

5) include the Malaysian version (if there's complications).

MB say they know of the situation, but hopefully they'll be in touch with people who'll be able to help. The next thing is restoration - if someone owns a print, will Celestial restore it? If they do, it'll be very clean visually, but may suffer frame-cuts/snippets, newly-generated title sequences and over-filtered audio. Maybe MB will have someone else do it?

I've never seen the film:wink:.

[chen lung]

As for the slipboard covers... at least do it for Five Elements Ninjas so it matches the other 9 DVDs of batch one... then if you want, you can ditch them

I thought about that. The only thing is it might look a bit odd when MB continue with "Shaw Brothers Collection - 11".

[OldPangYau]

I thought about that. The only thing is it might look a bit odd when MB continue with "Shaw Brothers Collection - 11".

Well, pick the lesser of two evils... I'd rather see a complete first batch of ten, than 9 with slipcovers and a tenth with none. Think of the lack of slipcovers for 11 as a new beginning for batch 2

[teako170]

I've been in contact with MB regarding this film and hopefully they will offer something that will appease all fans. As they mentioned to me, it really isn't up to them what version they want but what's offered to them.

Hopefully, we'll get the international release - time will tell. I do hope they include the two interviews I have suggested. It will truly put the icing on the cake for this release.

[gorhama]

Hmmm.....slip covers or not I don't care. BUT I will say that I'm the kind of NERD that wants my collection to look the same. So I hope for my "condition" that they will keep up with the slip covers.

As for MB and Chinatown Kid...I have faith they will do all in their power to get us the best possible release. They haven't let us down yet. Ok they haven't let me down yet.

[Guest Markgway]

As they mentioned to me, it really isn't up to them what version they want but what's offered to them.

That's the equivilent of going into a donut shop, asking for a strawberry frosted, and being told "you'll take the chocolate sprinkles and like it!".

Since I presume Media Blasters are actually paying Celestial for the privilage they should be delivered exactly what they damn well want. That's how business works (or should).

[gorhama]

That's the equivilent of going into a donut shop, asking for a strawberry frosted, and being told "you'll take the chocolate sprinkles and like it!".

Since I presume Media Blasters are actually paying Celestial for the privilage they should be delivered exactly what they damn well want. That's how business works (or should).

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will step up and respond...but I seem to remember other posts either excerpts from interviews or people that actually worked with Celestial and that they are not the easiest company to work with. I could be wrong of course I'll say err...write that up front and would be willing to be told the right info.

Either way......here's hoping MB didn't go into this partnership blind.

[chen lung]

but I seem to remember other posts either excerpts from interviews or people that actually worked with Celestial and that they are not the easiest company to work with.

Yeah, can't stand such silly arsehole companies that think they know it all - refusing to co-operate and order distributors around.

[teako170]

That's the equivilent of going into a donut shop, asking for a strawberry frosted, and being told "you'll take the chocolate sprinkles and like it!".

Since I presume Media Blasters are actually paying Celestial for the privilage they should be delivered exactly what they damn well want. That's how business works (or should).

Its more like.. "While we don't have any more strawberry frosted, let us recommend the chocolate sprinkles instead. This is one of our more popular models which has proven to provide a much higher level of satisfaction." In business - from a supplier's POV (and this includes the retail level) its not always about the purchaser asking for X and getting X but for the supplier to provide alternate choices if X is unavailable. And, more importantly, making Y sound even better than X so the purchaser feels that they have purchased exactly what they wanted.

Granted such is not the case with the CKid version as we know what we want and there is no better substitute. That's why its important for us, the well informed consumer, to offer our knowledge and suggestions to MB so they can make the most informed purchase for the end user (us).

[KUNG FU BOB]

Teako, you are a champion of diplomacy! Glad to see you back.

[Killer Meteor]

if MB gets any more non-anamorphic masters, please make them anamorphic. it can be done and look good, and is a hell of a lot more convinient then using a crappy Zoom on a TV

[Guest Markgway]

Celestial would hate dealing with me then.

I don't do compromise.

They need Media Blasters money more than Media Blasters need Celestial titles.

Celestial grossly overpaid for the Shaw catalogue (I bet Run Run pissed himself laughing...) and would do well to take any offers they can get.

The sales in HK weren't spectacular and only a small percentage of the martial arts and horror titles have made it out internationally.