Member QueenBlast Posted April 8, 2009 Member Share Posted April 8, 2009 Nagging question. In the movie MASTER OF THE FLYING GUILLOTINE one of the characters calls Jimmy Wang Yu 'The One Armed Swordsman' even though the film is suppose to be a sequel to ONE ARMED BOXER. I know that the One Armed Boxer and Chinese Boxer characters were owned by Shaw Brothers which is why when Jim went to Golden Harvest he combined both characters to create a new character not owned by the Shaws, The One Armed Boxer. But all the One Armed films since were done for independent film studios. Did Jimmy Wang Yu intend them to be sequels to The One Armed Swordsman, The One Armed Boxer, or a third character that neither the Shaws or Chow owned? And if new character was he a boxer or swordsman? Lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted April 8, 2009 Member Share Posted April 8, 2009 One Armed Boxer isn't a Shaw movie. Master of the Flying Guillotine can be considered a sequel, but I think it's more just a continuation of the One Armed boxer character. And The One Armed Swordsman and One Armed Boxer are different characters, so I don't think the movies are related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member peringaten Posted April 8, 2009 Member Share Posted April 8, 2009 The thread of this thread's going a bit wonky, one armed this, one armed that, sequels & continuations and whatnot. Misunderstandings can and will abound. I think Jimmy was a hack in the best possible mad manner, reworking themes that worked for him, particularly, or others in the past. Tweaking an idea or an old proven success to capitalise from it; didn't much matter who a precedent belonged to, everyone was mimicking everyone & reworking things in the old martial filmmaking industry. Speaking Wang Yu, I like Deadly Silver Spear - he threw a whole crapload of previous workings into the pot for that one, heightened a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 The original title - ONE-ARMED BOXER VS. THE FLYING GUILLOTINE - offers some sort of clue methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member QueenBlast Posted April 8, 2009 Author Member Share Posted April 8, 2009 One Armed Boxer isn't a Shaw movie. Master of the Flying Guillotine can be considered a sequel, but I think it's more just a continuation of the One Armed boxer character. And The One Armed Swordsman and One Armed Boxer are different characters, so I don't think the movies are related. ONE ARMED SWORDSMAN ( 1967 ) - Shaw Brothers ONE ARM SWORDSMAN RETURN ( 1969 ) - Shaw Brothers CHINESE BOXER ( 1970 ) - Shaw Brothers ZATOICHI MEETS HIS EQUAL ( 1971 ) - Toho ( Japan ) NEW ONE ARMED SWORDSMAN ( TRIPLE IRONS ) ( 1971 ) - Shaw Brothers ( The series continued with David Chiang ) ONE ARMED BOXER ( 1971 ) - Golden Harvest MASTER OF THE FLYING GUILLOTINE ( 1975 ) - First Films ( Taiwan ) THE ONE ARMED SWORDSMEN ( 1976 ) - Fortuna Films ( Taiwan ) ( both Jimmy Wang Yu and David Chiang ) ONE ARMED AGAINST NINE KILLERS ( 1976 ) - Fortuna Films ( Taiwan ) ONE ARMED CHIVALRY ( POINT THE FINGER OF DEATH ) ( 1977 ) - Wing Tai Film Co. ( Taiwan ) RETURN OF THE CHINESE BOXER ( 1977 ) - Alpha Motion Hongkong Picture ( Taiwan ) Did I miss any? The original title - ONE-ARMED BOXER VS. THE FLYING GUILLOTINE - offers some sort of clue methinks. What I have learned since my futile attempt to collect the IN THE LINE OF DUTY series is that depending on which country or territory a film is released in the distributor will give the movie any title he thinks he can get away with. What is released as a One Armed Boxer movie in one country would probably be called something else in Hong Kong because the distributor there would be sued. The same thing goes with dubbing. Depending on the language the same character could have different names. There is also a huge problem with translating the HK title ( the actual Chinese characters ) into English. Back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's British law demanded that movies either be released in English or that they have English subtitles. Distributors did not exactly translate the films title to English literally. 'One Armed Boxer' could actually be 'One Armed Martial Arts Expert' meaning it is just a general translation. There was nothing preventing Wang Yu from playing a one armed boxer or swordsman in any other movie. He just was not allowed to play the same character without permission. The question is what character was Jimmy Wang Yu portraying in the original release print of MASTER OF THE FLYING GUILLOTINE? They do call him the One Armed Swordsman in the English dub, and the film takes place in an earlier era than the first One Armed Boxer movie. The first seems to take place around the early 1900's and the sequel seems to take place in the 1700's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted April 9, 2009 Member Share Posted April 9, 2009 The One-Armed Explaination! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member moongirl Posted April 9, 2009 Member Share Posted April 9, 2009 I'd say he's clearly playing the character from One Armed Boxer--there are flashback scenes from One Armed Boxer in Master of the Flying Guillotine, plus he's called by the same name (don't remember which version, though, dubbed or not). I don't remember him being called the one armed swordsman in that film, though, but I probably just missed it--when does this happen? Even weirder is OAS against Nine Killers--that seems to take place both before and after certain incidents from another film... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member QueenBlast Posted April 9, 2009 Author Member Share Posted April 9, 2009 I don't remember him being called the one armed swordsman in that film, though, but I probably just missed it--when does this happen? When he fights the Yoga. Here is a clip of it on Daily Motion. It takes place 25 seconds into the clip. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4s5mj_le-bras-arme-de-wang-yu-ctre-la-gui_shortfilms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member vengeanceofhumanlanterns Posted April 9, 2009 Member Share Posted April 9, 2009 Merely a momentary miss-translation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venomsfreak Posted April 9, 2009 Member Share Posted April 9, 2009 ZATOICHI MEETS HIS EQUAL ( 1971 ) - Toho ( Japan ) Is that an aka for Zaitochi vs One Armed Swordsman ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted April 9, 2009 Administrator Share Posted April 9, 2009 ZATOICHI MEETS HIS EQUAL ( 1971 ) - Toho ( Japan ) Is that an aka for Zaitochi vs One Armed Swordsman ? Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 MASTER OF THE FLYING GUILLOTINE ( 1975 ) - First Films ( Taiwan ) THE ONE ARMED SWORDSMEN ( 1976 ) - Fortuna Films ( Taiwan ) ONE ARMED AGAINST NINE KILLERS ( 1976 ) - Fortuna Films ( Taiwan ) ONE ARMED CHIVALRY ( POINT THE FINGER OF DEATH ) ( 1977 ) - Wing Tai Film Co. ( Taiwan ) RETURN OF THE CHINESE BOXER ( 1977 ) - Alpha Motion Hongkong Picture ( Taiwan ) All of those films, whilst shot in Taiwan, are technically Hong Kong movies, and one of them is part Korean. Many Taiwanese companies based themselves in HK for tax purposes and also because HK martial arts movies had better marketability. Correction: Actually a couple of those might be genuinely Taiwanese. First Films was Taiwanese until 1976, and there's two companies called Fortuna so I'd have to check for those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member moongirl Posted April 10, 2009 Member Share Posted April 10, 2009 Thanks for the scene information on him being called the one armed swordsman. I can't believe I never noticed that before! I checked, and in the dubbed version, when he goes to see Miss Wu, he identifies himself as Yu Tien Lung, which was his name in One Armed Boxer (although it sounds like he says "Yu Ti Lung", but it's close enough, I'd say). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I checked, and in the dubbed version, when he goes to see Miss Wu, he identifies himself as Yu Tien Lung, which was his name in One Armed Boxer (although it sounds like he says "Yu Ti Lung", but it's close enough, I'd say). The English dubbers often didn't have a clue how to pronounce the names as written and so you could expect numerous variations to be heard throughout. I once counted six alternate pronounciations of a character's name (half of them by the same dubber). So you could end up having a character called (for example) the following over the space of 90 mins. Wong Chan-Kin Wang Chen-Kan Wong Chin-Kam Wang Chun-Kun Wong Chuen-King Subbed versions of names are naturally more accurate (though not always without mistake). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted April 12, 2009 Member Share Posted April 12, 2009 The continuity between the two Boxer films is actually rather wonky - as was par the course for sequels in those days! The two Tibetan lamas in the first film are mercenaries, and the setting seems to be more late 19th/early 20th century - vague but possibly close to the Boxer rebellion. However the sequel is stated to be set in 1715 at the time of Emperor Yueng Cheng, and the Lamas are now agents of the Manchus. Mind you, its not as bad as Kharis sinking into a swamp in Massechucets in The Mummy's Ghost and emerging from a swamp in Lousiana in The Mummy's Curse, which was released merely six months later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Stanley Posted May 21, 2009 Member Share Posted May 21, 2009 ZATOICHI MEETS HIS EQUAL ( 1971 ) - Toho ( Japan ) Is that an aka for Zaitochi vs One Armed Swordsman ? Should be the same movie. It has 2 versions. The Japanese version available today has Jimmy Wang Yu playing just a major supporting role. In the Chinese version, Wang Yu is the lead actor and the end is also different. Zaitochi is big in Japan but in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia & Thailand, Jimmy Wang Yu is the superstar and best-seller then among the Chinese audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Asmo Posted May 22, 2009 Moderator Share Posted May 22, 2009 Should be the same movie. It has 2 versions. The Japanese version available today has Jimmy Wang Yu playing just a major supporting role. In the Chinese version, Wang Yu is the lead actor and the end is also different. Zaitochi is big in Japan but in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia & Thailand, Jimmy Wang Yu is the superstar and best-seller then among the Chinese audience. I'd heard of the alternate ending but not of the Chinese version having Wang Yu as the lead actor. Thanks for the insight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Stanley Posted May 22, 2009 Member Share Posted May 22, 2009 I'd heard of the alternate ending but not of the Chinese version having Wang Yu as the lead actor. Thanks for the insight! Yes, Wang Yu has more scenes in the Chinese version(during those days, audience cannot be offended) and in fact the lead role, so is the Chinese title One Armed Swordsman vs Blind Sworsdman. I think thats why they have Chinese director(Hsu......who always directed Chang Yi)(billed as assistant dir. in the japanese version). He must have directed most of those Jimmy scenes for the Chinese version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted April 20, 2015 Member Share Posted April 20, 2015 ONE ARMED SWORDSMAN ( 1967 ) - Shaw Brothers ONE ARM SWORDSMAN RETURN ( 1969 ) - Shaw Brothers CHINESE BOXER ( 1970 ) - Shaw Brothers ZATOICHI MEETS HIS EQUAL ( 1971 ) - Toho ( Japan ) NEW ONE ARMED SWORDSMAN ( TRIPLE IRONS ) ( 1971 ) - Shaw Brothers ( The series continued with David Chiang ) ONE ARMED BOXER ( 1971 ) - Golden Harvest MASTER OF THE FLYING GUILLOTINE ( 1975 ) - First Films ( Taiwan ) THE ONE ARMED SWORDSMEN ( 1976 ) - Fortuna Films ( Taiwan ) ( both Jimmy Wang Yu and David Chiang ) ONE ARMED AGAINST NINE KILLERS ( 1976 ) - Fortuna Films ( Taiwan ) ONE ARMED CHIVALRY ( POINT THE FINGER OF DEATH ) ( 1977 ) - Wing Tai Film Co. ( Taiwan ) RETURN OF THE CHINESE BOXER ( 1977 ) - Alpha Motion Hongkong Picture ( Taiwan ) Got the ones in bold. Do I need any others ? I'm especially asking about the follow-ups to MOTFG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member shukocarl Posted April 20, 2015 Member Share Posted April 20, 2015 Some of the English dubbers did get things wrong on occasion...characters are sometimes given different names or their names pronounced differently throughout films. At one point in Game of Death, the "Bruce Lee" character Billy Lo...introduces himself as Lee Chen Chiang to Chin Ku's daughter. He's Billy Lo for the rest of the time except in the HK dub where he's....Lee Chen Chiang! As to Wang Yu...he had to make films in Taiwan due to him breaking his Shaw Bros contract...he was forced to film there because he was banned from working in HK. So One Armed Boxer was a Golden Harvest film shot there, I don't know how long the ban went on for but he was back in HK to make Man from HK and A Queen's Ransom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted April 20, 2015 Member Share Posted April 20, 2015 Got the ones in bold. Do I need any others ? I'm especially asking about the follow-ups to MOTFG. I don't think there was a follow up to MOTFG. A shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted April 21, 2015 Member Share Posted April 21, 2015 I don't think there was a follow up to MOTFG. A shame! I meant the films released after MOTFG, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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