Member daisho2004 Posted March 24, 2009 Member Share Posted March 24, 2009 The Amazing Psycho Per: Go to the top of the Japanese section and look under "Samurai Movies & there Sequels" we did a lot of reviews there which should help you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Amazing Psycho Per Posted March 24, 2009 Author Member Share Posted March 24, 2009 The Amazing Psycho Per: Go to the top of the Japanese section and look under "Samurai Movies & there Sequels" we did a lot of reviews there which should help you out. I bowe in shame... So in Seven Samurai when Mifune is swinging his sword with one arm and his feet aren't sturdy, that is bad swordplay choreography? Again, Mifune's character in that movie wasn't even a real samurai and by swinging his sword like that, it is a realistic depiction of how a person who wasn't a real swordsman would fight. In fact, the only character in that movie who would even be considered a "master samurai" by movie standards would be Kyuzo. The rest were mostly just normal samurai, so when you see one of them with a stance too wide, or with a sword swing that seems too slow, it's because they lack the technique of a Miyamoto Musashi. Being able to show this on film is very good choreography in my opinion. Sure, part of it is because the actors aren't real swordsmen themselves, but here it lends itself nicely--it suits the kind of rough, ugly look of a real fight that Akira Kurosawa was aiming for. I totally agree, and that's why I retracted the word "weak" in a previous post. It's pretty obvious that Mifune's character is full of it and that he pretends to come from a long lineage of samurai, carrying around his oversized outdated sword, when he actually doesn't really know how to fight. The fact that I don't think the swordplay is exciting in seven samurai, doesn't diminish at all the fun I have to watch the movie. My problem when it comes to bad, or less exciting choreography, is when it comes to sub par or more ordinary movies, where it would be the only thing that could save. the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kungfusamurai Posted March 25, 2009 Member Share Posted March 25, 2009 I don't think Seven Samurai's choreography can be compared to movies from Yojimbo onwards because the evolution of the samurai film had changed it significantly by '61, and the way fight scenes were filmed also had changed. I tend not to prefer to watch the samurai flicks between Seven Samurai and Yojimbo because the fight choreography isn't to my liking. But from Yojimbo onwards, they were definitely done in a more stylish manner. I guess you could compare Seven Samurai's fight scenes to those films that show large battle scenes as opposed to one on one or one vs multiple opponent showdowns. The Zatoichi films are in a league of their own, as are the Lone Wolf & Cub films. The swordsmanship of Shintaro Katsu and Tomisaburou Wakayama were unmatched as far as I'm concerned. The only films you can judge against Zatoichi are other Zatoichi films. The best era for me were the films between '61 and around '74 when Kenji Misumi did his last film, 'The Last Samurai'. I think of those flicks as part of a 'Golden Era'. For some reason, I find samurai flicks from the late 70s onward don't have the same quality feel that the earlier Golden Era flicks had. Even a film like Shogun's Ninja, which I enjoy a lot, doesn't hold up against the worst of the Samurai flicks between '61 and '74 in terms of story, acting, etc... The fight scenes are more HK-ish, so in some respects they're better, but the story is sacrificed. Only the Kage No Gundan TV series seems to be in the same spirit of the Golden Era samurai film. Of the recent samurai flicks, I only found that Twilight Samurai did the best job of capturing the essence of the Golden Era flicks. For me, a well made samurai flick doesn't depend solely on the fight scenes, but on the build up of tension, the acting, story, etc... By the way, I'm also someone who didn't quite enjoy Goyokin or Tenchu. You also won't find Harakiri on my Top 10 list of fave samurai flicks either. I can't explain why those flicks don't resonate with me. I've just never warmed up to them. Incident At Blood Pass is another one that doesn't get me excited. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member GwaiLoMoFo Posted March 27, 2009 Member Share Posted March 27, 2009 Of the recent samurai flicks, I only found that Twilight Samurai did the best job of capturing the essence of the Golden Era flicks. For me, a well made samurai flick doesn't depend solely on the fight scenes, but on the build up of tension, the acting, story, etc... I agree with your take on the classic samurai films from the "golden era" you refered to. Quick example..I just re-watched "Whirlwind" the other night, and the fight choreography is not flashy or exciting. But the film is so good on every other level it doesnt matter. When it comes to traditional Samurai films, the action is one of last things I look at. By the way, I'm also someone who didn't quite enjoy Goyokin or Tenchu. You also won't find Harakiri on my Top 10 list of fave samurai flicks either. I can't explain why those flicks don't resonate with me. I've just never warmed up to them. Incident At Blood Pass is another one that doesn't get me excited. I understand your feelings on "Incident At Blood Pass", I didnt care muich for that either. But man, "Harakiri" is one of my favorite films of all time (not just of the genre). Its just such a powerful film, it blew me away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kungfusamurai Posted March 28, 2009 Member Share Posted March 28, 2009 I understand your feelings on "Incident At Blood Pass", I didnt care muich for that either. But man, "Harakiri" is one of my favorite films of all time (not just of the genre). Its just such a powerful film, it blew me away. I hear ya. I've really tried to enjoy Harakiri, but for some reason, I just can't get into it. Maybe it's because when I first watched it, I was expecting some kick as fight scenes, but the ending turned out to be a let down. It's strange because I enjoy many other samurai flicks that don't have much fighting, like Samurai Rebellion. Like I said, I can't exactly figure out what it is I don't like about Harakiri. I don't hate it or anything. It just doesn't make me want to take it out and watch it again and again. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member vengeanceofhumanlanterns Posted March 28, 2009 Member Share Posted March 28, 2009 "I can't exactly figure out what it is I don't like about Harakiri. I don't hate it or anything. It just doesn't make me want to take it out and watch it again and again." I find any flicks of this genre, if there's not a lot of fighting, I give it a much longer break before watching it again. Not to say fighting alone carries a flick for me. The story, acting, presence, etc has to be there as well. Harakiri is an all time fave for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kungfusamurai Posted March 28, 2009 Member Share Posted March 28, 2009 "I can't exactly figure out what it is I don't like about Harakiri. I don't hate it or anything. It just doesn't make me want to take it out and watch it again and again." I find any flicks of this genre, if there's not a lot of fighting, I give it a much longer break before watching it again. Not to say fighting alone carries a flick for me. The story, acting, presence, etc has to be there as well. Harakiri is an all time fave for me. I have no problem with little fighting. I think with Harakiri it might be the lack of a satisfying ending, now that I think of it. I was hoping he would successfully avenge his son's death, but in the end, it just seems like it's all back to square one with nothing having changed. I don't know if that was the intention of the filmmaker. It left me wondering why I invested 2 hrs watching this movie only to have it end in such a disappointing manner. Is it the message you're supposed to get out of it that if you or your family are caused harm by a strong force there's no point in rising up against it because you'll end up dying in the end so why even bother? I haven't watched it in a while, but I think that was my biggest beef with it. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Yakuza954 Posted March 28, 2009 Member Share Posted March 28, 2009 The whole movie was a denouncement of the samurai class and their idea of "honor." That's why the movie is called Harakiri, because Harakiri, the supposed most sacred samurai act, is shown as an ugly and useless thing thing that was mostly used to clean up dirty politics. I'm glad Nakadai's character didn't survive in this movie. Not because I like to see people dying (well maybe I do), but because it fit the tone of this movie perfectly. He was already resigned to his fate that day, and knew very well that at the end of it, he'd be cutting open his stomach, just like how his son was forced to do. The entire final sequence where he shows the top-knots of all the clan members, fights his way into the most "sacred" room of the lord's house, and commits harakiri, was the prefect way for him to get his vengeance and disgrace the clan in the process. Had he survived, this message would have been nowhere near as powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kungfusamurai Posted March 30, 2009 Member Share Posted March 30, 2009 The whole movie was a denouncement of the samurai class and their idea of "honor." That's why the movie is called Harakiri, because Harakiri, the supposed most sacred samurai act, is shown as an ugly and useless thing thing that was mostly used to clean up dirty politics. I'm glad Nakadai's character didn't survive in this movie. Not because I like to see people dying (well maybe I do), but because it fit the tone of this movie perfectly. He was already resigned to his fate that day, and knew very well that at the end of it, he'd be cutting open his stomach, just like how his son was forced to do. The entire final sequence where he shows the top-knots of all the clan members, fights his way into the most "sacred" room of the lord's house, and commits harakiri, was the prefect way for him to get his vengeance and disgrace the clan in the process. Had he survived, this message would have been nowhere near as powerful. But in the end, he's still agreeing with the whole dirty system of how things are done. Sure, he takes a few people out with him, but he should be battling them until the bitter end because they've in essence become his enemy. That's just my feelings on the film. Like I said, I've tried to appreciate it for what it is, but compared to the many other samurai films out there from that era, I find the outcome just too bleak. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted March 30, 2009 Member Share Posted March 30, 2009 Seppuku is my favorite all time movie, not just Japanese. I think by him throwing down the family armour at the end he disgraced them and every last one of their ancestors, which would be worse then him killing them. The fight in the wind swept field against Tetsuro Tamba was the best part of this movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Yakuza954 Posted March 30, 2009 Member Share Posted March 30, 2009 I think by him throwing down the family armour at the end he disgraced them and every last one of their ancestors, which would be worse then him killing them. Not only that, but he DOES fight to the bitter end.. He doesn't commit Harakiri until he's surrounded by a new group of retainers that arrive armed with guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member waywardsage Posted April 2, 2009 Member Share Posted April 2, 2009 Seppuku is my favorite all time movie, not just Japanese. I think by him throwing down the family armour at the end he disgraced them and every last one of their ancestors, which would be worse then him killing them. The fight in the wind swept field against Tetsuro Tamba was the best part of this movie. This is true, when he lifts the ancestors armour up at the end and parades it around, dripping blood all over it and throws it on the ground, he's absolutly disgracing the clan. It is probably the worst insult he could have given them. And basically makes them look like fools for not being able to protect it. Great scene. Amazing film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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