The Traitorious Carter Wong, Samo Hung, Chang Yi (1976)

[Guest gfanikf]

Watched about 30 minutes so far and I am blown away by how awesome this flick is (and how badass Samo is on the drums). Just a great flick so far with awesome training, evil villains, and some great music. Plus that kid really looked like Carter Wong.

Any chance of a legit release in the cards or will the FLK one be the best (which is the one I'm watching) for this power house flick from Fortuna Films (some one must have liked Machiavelli's The Prince).

Also any other fans of the film? I'm planning a review for later today.

[Guest killer meteor]

Indeed a great film. I have the Eastern Heroes DVD which is 2.35:1 widescreen from a good tape, with Mandarin mono audio and the worst subtitles known to man! Plus, you get The Victim!

[Guest chen lung]

I looked at some clips and I was mighty disappointed. Too slow and sloppy for Sammo's standards (for any actually).

[Guest peringaten]

Not a fan of this one much at all... started off VERY nicely, the opening sequences were well set up and the use of the slow-motion and music to punctuate the action and drama here was a cut above... also was grabbed by the costuming, and of course seeing some great cast members (chiefly Sammo & Chang Yi)... but then the movie gradually began to grate on me, before the one in/one out action choreography began to REALLY bother me... I've never seen such one in/one out choreo in my life... what's the point of that human pyramid if all they do is jump down now and again for some mediocre one in/one out fight choreo?

Then came the point I decided I really didn't care for the movie at all; not just the choreo, but I didn't care for the story or any of it... started to wonder if my kung obsession had gone too far - why was I watching this?? Struggling, I gave it the benefit to the end, then snapped out of it and went and watched some Venoms or Mystery Of Chess Boxing or something and balance was restored. All was right with the world again and this movie was allowed to fade off into the distance, allowing me to relinquish the momentary grief it had annoyingly caused me...

Not a fan. In fact alongside one really dodgy movie called "Devil Medusa", The Traitorous is one of the only films I've ever actually had this questioning 'what am I up to' reaction... and I've sat through probably far worse, but enjoyed them far more. I think I just found it so depressingly mediocre.

But saying that I can see how it would work for others - just not for me.

[Guest killer meteor]

Yeah, the human pyramid thing does get tiresome quickly.

[Guest chen lung]

Then came the point I decided I really didn't care for the movie at all; not just the choreo, but I didn't care for the story or any of it... started to wonder if my kung obsession had gone too far - why was I watching this?? Struggling, I gave it the benefit to the end, then snapped out of it and went and watched some Venoms or Mystery Of Chess Boxing or something and balance was restored. All was right with the world again and this movie was allowed to fade off into the distance, allowing me to relinquish the momentary grief it had annoyingly caused me...

I get like that a lot and I completely agree. Sometimes I think "is this genre (or even Kung Fu choreography e.t.c) just a complete waste?". The true answer is yes and no.

Yes: The likes of 'Fist of Legend' has nicely paced choreography and an interesting story. DM, SITES e.t.c doing even deeper I'm sure there are quite a few nice flicks but it's hard without knowing it's going to be worthless @#%$ and you've just wasted money because you can't rid of it.

No: Shaws and the likes churned out lots of crap with whiny Mandarin women, stupid subplots, asexual "would rather feel the abbots balls" type (thanks Mark) people who can't tell men/women apart (trannies too). Basically they were making films for the sake of doing it and hoping to cash in. Some say their shutdown was a shame indeed, quite frankly it had to be done and I wouldn't shed a damn tear. Don't get me wrong, some were good but just don't regard it as the almighty - it's chuckle-fu and their lame library of foley.

For instance, Falkor went completely mad with 'Showdown at the Cotton Mill' and how great it was. After some comments (|I ...), I took the brave route of more unknown stuff, including this one when infact it was just mostly crap. Lousy slow fights (especially from two such talented stars), just garbage I don't have time for and ever since, I've learnt to be careful of what I buy and not be fooled by hype. If anything, I try to watch clips or maybe even download the film for free, if it's good, then I'll gladly buy the real thing. Think that's what I'll do from now on.

[Guest killer meteor]

I've learnt not to get hyped over things. The likes of Showdown and Along Came A Tiger annoyed because they were OK films hyped into masterpieces by people. Often, it's the exploitive, no-name trash that reaps rewards. Things like Bruce Lee Fights Back From The Grave, Master With Cracked Fingers, Shaolin Invincibles. I love that stuff.

And I agree: by the late 70's, Shaws output was on autopilot and frequently mediocre. But again, now that I've gotten over being disapointed by the hype vs. actually watching the bloody things, I'm really starting to enjoy the Venoms

[Guest Markgway]

I'd comment but don't want to take the risk of being flamed for hating everything. But as it happens... I liked The Traitorous. So sue me. 8)

[Guest Chen Zhen]

finally! glad im not the only person who thought cotton mill was one of the most overrated movies in recent memory, with Enter the Dragon being the most (in my books). not a bad movie, but it wasnt good enuff to not warrant me to trade my copy away

[Guest GwaiLoMoFo]

Watched Traitorous once, sold my copy on ebay few weeks later. A decent flick with some fun parts, but the kung fu was below average imo (for the cast involved). Nice, but not good enough for me to re-watch it.

Average kf flicks can rise to cult like status simply because of limited availability to average fans. Imo, alot of kf movies are rare and hard to find for a reason. Usually because they werent anything special to begin with.

[Guest morgoth]

I don't get why people say Cottonmill is overrated. i don't see it as one of the greatest ever, but it is stil a great flick. All of the fights with chi Kuan Chun are awesome and they keep gettign better and better the whole movie. The story is not bad, in fact it is quite good, especially when the kid gives his last look good bye.

[Guest killer meteor]

I think it's because prior to the DVD people were talking about it as though it was a real classic. In reality, it's a mediocre film far inferior to Shaw's take on the story. Not a waste of time or anything, but not worth the trouble. Now Cub Tiger From Kwantung, that I'm excited about!

It's the same with Doctor Who. Many stories no longer exist. When Tomb Of The Cybermen was discovered in HK and released on video 25 years after its broadcast, for some it failed to live up to expectations - though personally I think it rocks!

[Guest Tosh]

I liked Traitorious, (and Showdown for that matter), I probably wont run out to rent it again or buy it but I didn't find it a waste of my time, there are far worse movies out there.

Not sure I ever found a movie that questioned my reasons for loving this genre, if it's that bad I stop it and put in something that I know I do like, given the current sad state of films in general, these old movies are the ones I'll come back to again and again.

[Guest Markgway]

I thought 'Cotton Mill' was overrated and mediocre. Definately preferred 'The Traitorous'. It's all subject, of course, but you'll find most "rare" movies that get raved over will disappoint at least some fans. I remember back in the day Eastern Heroes talking about 'Snake Deadly Act' like it was the second coming of Christ...

[Guest morgoth]

Maybe if I had heard about this before I saw it I would have thought it was overrated, but probably not. I give Cottonmill a 9/10. Great kung fu and a good story. I don't ask for much more thn that. And Killer Meteor- what is better abotu 2 Champions? or are you talking about another shaws movie?

[Guest rederror]

Chen Zhen! i thought Cottom Mill was shite too.

[Guest morgoth]

because...

[Guest ironfistedmonk2003]

I would agree Cotton Mill was overhyped but its taking a bit of a beating here and its undeserved IMO. Overall its not a bad film, the action is decent and the story flows nicely, Flashlegs is cool as a villain and its all good. Alot of good films getting a right lashing here recently (Born Invincible etc) again!

The Traitorous on the other hand is very average

[Guest morgoth]

I wish D Tan had more villain roles. And Chi Kuan Chun is brilliant in this movie.

[Guest Chen Zhen]

because...

i thought it was average at best. gets no better than a 3/5 from me. the action scenes were good, not great....at least not nearly good enuff to warrant that obsene level of hype...i was expecting some The Victim/Fearless Dragons/Buddhist Fist type insanity in the action, but it was very conventional, with nothing remarkable or particularly noteworthy.

the story was fine, but once again, nothing special to me either. none of the 'characters' were memorable to me, and the plot didnt break any new ground, or even present the typical plot in any groundbreaking ways. seeing Tan in a villainous role was the biggest treat of a very ordinary cake.

definetely not a bad movie, but when ppl hail it as a 'classic' or a 'gem', i just roll my eyes...

i gotta say tho, many of these 'rare' movies that i see rarely justify their hype.

[Guest morgoth]

I didn't know this was a classic when it came out, but literally every part of the movie was above average to me. Definitely one of Chi Kuan Chun's best roles. His fist work is superb.

[Guest killer meteor]

And Killer Meteor- what is better abotu 2 Champions? or are you talking about another shaws movie?

Men From The Monastary - we get to see the death of Hu Hui-chien's father and his training for revenge - though its one of those tacky ones where there's a scene transition and some bloke says later on "it's been three years"

[Guest morgoth]

I need to see that movie.

[Guest rederror]

Well Morgoth my reason is because of this...

The fight scenes in my opinion were far from anything great, maybe a bit of over hype as i had not seen any of this movie and heard great things. But the film wasnt anything special in my opinion.

[Guest morgoth]

I thought it was a very touching movie and Chi Kuan chun was on fire in every fight. People just see things differently I guess.