Member Neil Koch Posted August 26, 2013 Member Share Posted August 26, 2013 I want to know what it is they think we would 't understand in the HK version. I got confused ONCE in the film and my girlfriend immediately cleared it up for me. It was a simple mistake. I've read that a lot of people are confused about the character of the Razor as he doesn't really have a well explored storyline. But that's why this film is great. There is a LOT to explore and understand, thematically. Debates to be had etc. I don't want to come off as an ass, but most people are stupid. They don't like to think. This is why you have stuff like Honey Boo Boo having millions of viewers per week. You have to remember that since this movie is getting a fairly wide release, it was screened for test audiences. So it is cut down so the goober who complained that he didn't understand why the one karate guy wanted to fight the other karate guy will be satisifed. Of course, these sorts of people probably wouldn't go to see a kung fu movie in the first place, much less a subtitled one, because god forbid they would have to read. So why exactly the Weinsteins are trying to cut down this movie to pander towards the lowest common denominator is even more puzzling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted August 26, 2013 Member Share Posted August 26, 2013 I don't want to come off as an ass, but most people are stupid. They don't like to think. This is why you have stuff like Honey Boo Boo having millions of viewers per week. You have to remember that since this movie is getting a fairly wide release, it was screened for test audiences. So it is cut down so the goober who complained that he didn't understand why the one karate guy wanted to fight the other karate guy will be satisifed. Of course, these sorts of people probably wouldn't go to see a kung fu movie in the first place, much less a subtitled one, because god forbid they would have to read. So why exactly the Weinsteins are trying to cut down this movie to pander towards the lowest common denominator is even more puzzling. Very well put, it all comes down to money. The Weinstein just trying to market this in the most profitable way, it's kind of like buying fresh produce at a bulk price. Then they resell it with higher profit knowing its already cut to pieces again like fresh produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Amazing Psycho Per Posted August 27, 2013 Member Share Posted August 27, 2013 I must say I enjoyed it. Nice to see a kung fu movie with some texture to it once in a while. I enjoyed far more then WKW's previous attempt Ashes of Time, which I found unwatchable be it regular or "redux". I could've taken less wires though. Also, what's up with the "The Razor" story line? I must admit I'm at lost as to it's purpose. That aside definately recomanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted August 27, 2013 Member Share Posted August 27, 2013 I must say I enjoyed it. Nice to see a kung fu movie with some texture to it once in a while. I enjoyed far more then WKW's previous attempt Ashes of Time, which I found unwatchable be it regular or "redux". I could've taken less wires though. Also, what's up with the "The Razor" story line? I must admit I'm at lost as to it's purpose. That aside definately recomanded. Wong Kar Wai himself has said The Razor acts as a mirror to Ip Man. Where Ip Man seeks honor through his martial arts, The Razor treads the opposite path. In fact, Wong Kar Wai says one of the chief themes is that ANYBODY can be a grandmaster. It's what you do with your status that's important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Amazing Psycho Per Posted August 27, 2013 Member Share Posted August 27, 2013 Wong Kar Wai himself has said The Razor acts as a mirror to Ip Man. Where Ip Man seeks honor through his martial arts, The Razor treads the opposite path. In fact, Wong Kar Wai says one of the chief themes is that ANYBODY can be a grandmaster. It's what you do with your status that's important. Ok... In that case maybe it would've been nice to see him more then twice. I was sure he and Ip Man would cross path, maybe through rivaling kung fu school or something. It would've been nice had they squared off at the end, highlighting their oppposite nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member bigrogie Posted August 27, 2013 Member Share Posted August 27, 2013 WELL NOW, IF THIS IS THE CASE SHOULD I SEE IT WHEN IT COMES TO TOWN AUGUST 31, ON THE BIG SCREEN GD Y-Y I watched the uncut version. Very interesting movie. With 22 minutes or so cut, I would not bother with the US release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted August 27, 2013 Member Share Posted August 27, 2013 Ok... In that case maybe it would've been nice to see him more then twice. I was sure he and Ip Man would cross path, maybe through rivaling kung fu school or something. It would've been nice had they squared off at the end, highlighting their oppposite nature. There has to be deleted footage of the The Razor somewhere as, I agree, he gets so little screen time that it feels weird and disjointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 27, 2013 Member Share Posted August 27, 2013 There has to be deleted footage of the The Razor somewhere as, I agree, he gets so little screen time that it feels weird and disjointed. Yeah, the thing with that guy kinda bugged me. He delivered some nice action, but it's difficult to link him to the main plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted August 27, 2013 Administrator Share Posted August 27, 2013 Here's an interesting article about the differences between the Chinese and US edit of the film. If you haven't seen it yet, I recommend you don't read this article, as it contains many spoilers. http://www.film.com/movies/wong-kar-wai-the-grandmaster-ruined-by-american-cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted August 27, 2013 Member Share Posted August 27, 2013 Here's an interesting article about the differences between the Chinese and US edit of the film. If you haven't seen it yet, I recommend you don't read this article, as it contains many spoilers. http://www.film.com/movies/wong-kar-wai-the-grandmaster-ruined-by-american-cut Holy shit, they butchered it! I'm so surprised to read how much of Ip Man and Gong Er's romance has been cut. Shocking...absolutely shocking. I think the talk between Gong Er's father/master and his brother is a pretty important scene too. It's a strange moment with lots to unwrap but it definitely adds to overall theme of honor and people's places in life. Thanks for the link, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member inframan Posted August 28, 2013 Member Share Posted August 28, 2013 I was kind of hoping it would be worth seeing, the cuts are kind of changing my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member slinky Posted August 28, 2013 Member Share Posted August 28, 2013 Even movies made in the US and shown in the theatre are butchered when go to blu ray/dvd, I think people don't notice it or something.. Always makes me mad. Hopefully someone stops this junk. Haven't seen this movie yet but looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 28, 2013 Member Share Posted August 28, 2013 Very interesting article, KUNG FU BOB. I'm feeling sorry for my American friends who will have to sit through this version. The version I saw and discussed was the over 2 hours version with its original dub. It's really nice. Someone wondered how people would get a Wong Kar Wai film if they needed a "Martin Scorcese presents" tagline and explicit Bruce Lee references on the poster... Guess with the butchering the movie went through, the film is to be completely different than the Chinese cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted August 28, 2013 Member Share Posted August 28, 2013 So I was on the fandango site and looked at the showtimes for Friday and it has Grandmaster clocking in at 2 hours and 10 mins??? Either my theater has the China cut or there is a glitch in the system, which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member GOLDEN DRAGON YIN-YANG Posted August 29, 2013 Member Share Posted August 29, 2013 I watched the uncut version. Very interesting movie. With 22 minutes or so cut, I would not bother with the US release. GD Y-Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member GOLDEN DRAGON YIN-YANG Posted August 29, 2013 Member Share Posted August 29, 2013 So I was on the fandango site and looked at the showtimes for Friday and it has Grandmaster clocking in at 2 hours and 10 mins??? Either my theater has the China cut or there is a glitch in the system, which is it? This makes me want to double check the time of the movie here in Minneapolis. Which is IT? GD Y-Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted August 29, 2013 Member Share Posted August 29, 2013 This makes me want to double check the time of the movie here in Minneapolis. Which is IT? GD Y-Y I wouldn't get my hopes up, if the reports are that the film is the cut version then it's the cut version, it might be just a misprint or the folks running the websites aren't doing their stinking jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kungfusamurai Posted August 29, 2013 Member Share Posted August 29, 2013 Personally, I didn't like the film. As a kung fu film, it doesn't hold up. Other than the fight at the train station with the super long train (it must have had 80 passenger cars), and the way too brief Hung Gar fight scene, most of the fights felt sterile and lacked any excitement factor. The rain fight at the beginning was especially irritating because you couldn't really see much of anything, and I guess that was the point. The artsy side of me didn't care for this film either. I found the visuals to be too claustrophobic. What was up with all those really tight close-ups? I mean, they were so tight, they didn't have to keep building new sets, you couldn't see them anyway. Even the scenic outdoor shots were too tight. I'd say that for a good balance of fighting visuals and drama, recent movies like Crouching Tiger and House of Flying Daggers did a better job. Even Hero was good, at least in the fight department, and somewhat in the drama side. For a history lesson in martial arts and honour, I would definitely stick to Pops' Shaw films or the films about wing chun history like Warriors Two and Prodigal Son. In the end, this is not a film I would recommend to someone hoping to watch an exciting and interesting kung fu film. As someone pointed out, it's more of a drama with kung fu elements, but kung fu that's just okay. I didn't discuss the poor pacing, jumpy editing or the rushed and tacked on ending because I realize those were done after the Chinese version was released. But Wong should still pick a version and stick with it. It's not good to be a director who doesn't stand by his work, no matter what audience is supposed to watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kungfusamurai Posted August 29, 2013 Member Share Posted August 29, 2013 I don't want to come off as an ass, but most people are stupid. They don't like to think. This is why you have stuff like Honey Boo Boo having millions of viewers per week. You have to remember that since this movie is getting a fairly wide release, it was screened for test audiences. So it is cut down so the goober who complained that he didn't understand why the one karate guy wanted to fight the other karate guy will be satisifed. Of course, these sorts of people probably wouldn't go to see a kung fu movie in the first place, much less a subtitled one, because god forbid they would have to read. So why exactly the Weinsteins are trying to cut down this movie to pander towards the lowest common denominator is even more puzzling. I think Wong should have held back instead of signing with the Weinsteins. He should have played it at the TIFF (Toronto International Film Festival) in its original form. Then he could have gauged audience reaction that way, rather than using focus groups, if that's how they came up with their North American cut. If it fell flat at TIFF, then too bad. But I guess the Weinsteins sold him the idea of getting it distributed earlier on, but with some changes, and probably threw lots of money at him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted August 29, 2013 Member Share Posted August 29, 2013 Does anybody know what the production budget was? It's made 55 million worldwide so far so I'm assuming it's not exactly a success story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Amazing Psycho Per Posted August 30, 2013 Member Share Posted August 30, 2013 Does anybody know what the production budget was? It's made 55 million worldwide so far so I'm assuming it's not exactly a success story I read 38.6 million US$ but I don't know the validity of this. The artsy side of me didn't care for this film either. I found the visuals to be too claustrophobic. What was up with all those really tight close-ups? I mean, they were so tight, they didn't have to keep building new sets, you couldn't see them anyway. Even the scenic outdoor shots were too tight. You say claustrophobic, some will say intimist. I think this pretty much in line with WKW's previous works both esthetically and thematically. Regrets, unfulfilled desires, time and geographical dislocation, isolation are some that comes to mind. I'm not usually that much of a fan (my girlfriend is), but this one had kung fu:xd:. Agree about the train scene though, that train lenght is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Neil Koch Posted August 30, 2013 Member Share Posted August 30, 2013 I read 38.6 million US$ but I don't know the validity of this. I read that also here http://www.film.com/movies/wong-kar-wai-the-grandmaster-ruined-by-american-cut If that figure is true, then the movie has already made its' money back and turned a little profit. This makes me want to double check the time of the movie here in Minneapolis. It's the cut version as per Landmark's (the company that owns the Lagoon theatre) site: http://www.landmarktheatres.com/Films/films_frameset.asp?id=128513\ If it fell flat at TIFF, then too bad. But I guess the Weinsteins sold him the idea of getting it distributed earlier on, but with some changes, and probably threw lots of money at him too. A likely scenario is that since the production was taking so long that there was a danger it wasn't going to be finished - so the Weinsteins came in and offered WKW cash to finish the film, on the condition that they have final say on the cut for NA audiences. They probably offered Scorsese's name attached and WKW thought that the movie wouldn't be messed with too much. Despite the PR interviews he's given, I really can't think he's all too happy about having to cut so much down. This is a director whose initial versions can easily run 4-5 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Gwai LO Posted August 30, 2013 Member Share Posted August 30, 2013 I got an email from the Weinstein Company, and in the email it said "Samuel L Jackson" presents the grandmasters lol didn't know he would attach his name to this kinda film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Neil Koch Posted August 30, 2013 Member Share Posted August 30, 2013 Samuel Jackson is a huge fan of Hong Kong/Chinese movies. He has said in interviews that Hard Boiled is his favorite movie. For a while he was suppoedly attached to a US remake of God of Gamblers that Stephen Chow was working on before he decided to do Shaolin Soccer instead. I still imagine the Dave Chappelle version of Samuel Jackson promoting this movie though: "There's lots of people kicking ass, motherfucker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted August 31, 2013 Member Share Posted August 31, 2013 Just got back from seeing this on the big screen. Absolutely breathtaking, a cut WKW movie is better than 5 Ip Man movies. If you don't think The Grandmasters is the best Ip Man movie ever made, I will challenge you to a fight, who wants some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.