Member Iron Boat Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 Okay this is kind of a continuation of the Cheng Cheh vs Lar Kar Leung post a couple of weeks ago; In my Cheng Cheh vs LKL comparison I overall chose Cheng Cheh's style of film making as my preference though we all agreed both director's are great at what they do. In the case of these two films, Boxer Rebellion and Legendary Weapons of China both directors tackle the same subject matter so I find it interesting to see how they compare. To cut to the chase, I once again prefer Cheng Cheh's take on the Boxer era/rebellion. In his film, he portrays the Boxers as heroes, defenders of China against western and Japanese invaders. The film center's around his team of Fu Sheng and Chi Kuan Chun, he directs the film to where you experience the rebellion and get swept into it through the characters eyes. Cheng Cheh, however, does not simply portray the boxers as heroes who can do no wrong, he is critical and careful to point out their flaws, or more specifically the errors in their philosophy of spirtual boxing (believing that it would make them immune to bullets and firepower) but he does it in a way that doesn't diminish them or make them appear silly or ignorant. If there is a flaw in this film, its the large cast of thousands, but his goal was to make an epic so I can't fault him for that. The chemistry between his three leads, Fu Sheng, Chi Kuan Chun, and "Beardy" is apparent and they are entertaining to watch on screen. In Legendary Weapons, however, Lar Kar Leung's focus on a faction of the boxer movement and their desire to bring a traitor to justice takes a turn toward absurdity. He portrays the boxers as a cult almost demonic or vampiric, who use magic, voodoo, and nonsense as their martial art. For example, in addition to the flying around, cheesy explosions, and voodoo dolls, I found Hsiao Hou's character (who gets way too much screen time) to be very annoying and watching him on screen was nearly intolerable. Apparently to use magic you have to make weird faces and finger gestures repeatedly to get it to work. Conclusion it just came off as silly. Gordon Liu who plays a disgruntled monk who sets out to assassinate the traitor is underused and underdeveloped, in addition his decision to return to Shaolin to meditate was anti climatic. Also, there is the overused plot device of a female (Kara Hui) who pretends to be a male, though she looks nothing like a male. Other directors also use this and I never understood it. And finally LKL once again forces the film to be about him rather than his actors. The movie culminates with a duel between he and his real life brother as they use 18 weapons of kung fu. The point is, this has nothing to do with the boxer rebellion and there is no emotional gravitas to this duel. In Cheng Cheh's film, however, you actually feel sympathy for the Boxers as they are gunned down by the Japanese/westerners, you root for the remaining heroes to survive long enough to escape, and when one does you feel slightly hopeful inside. So to wrap this up, I just don't get LWOC, I don't get the forced humor, I didn't see any drama or emotional investment at all. There are many who hold this film in high esteem but I fail to see why. The duel between the two brothers is not bad but to have had to sit through 85 minutes of silliness does not make a film Great. Now Boxer Rebellion is not the greatest of films either but I would recommend that film over LWOC for anyone who wanted to view a film dealing with the "Boxers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member shaolin drunkard Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 Boxer Rebellion 4/5 Legendary Weapons 1.5/5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member crazedjustice888 Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 To be honest, Boxer's Rebellion is one of my FAVORITE Shaw Brothers movies. I have it and it appeals to me in all aspects. As you said the seriousness, the styles shown, the actors in it, everything. LKL LWoC just can't pull me in. I tried to watch it, but I literally cannot force myself to finish it. Besides, those goofy looking outfits at the end.....moving on.... Overall. BR 12/10 LWoC 2/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member SamuraiDana Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 Basically, to expand on your points, Iron Boat, I would classify BOXER REBELLION as an epic historical drama that has some kung fu in it, while LEGENDARY WEAPONS is one of LKL's kung fu exercises, with some historical elements lightly sprinkled in. Both films have their value points. LEGENDARY WEAPONS has much narrower, more provincial ambitions, which is still enough to make it an entertaining, clever genre piece, while BOXER tackles much larger issues and has greater ambitions and results in a more substantial, richly satisfying cinematic work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted December 3, 2008 Author Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 Basically, to expand on your points, Iron Boat, I would classify BOXER REBELLION as an epic historical drama that has some kung fu in it, while LEGENDARY WEAPONS is one of LKL's kung fu exercises, with some historical elements lightly sprinkled in. Both films have their value points. LEGENDARY WEAPONS has much narrower, more provincial ambitions, which is still enough to make it an entertaining, clever genre piece, while BOXER tackles much larger issues and has greater ambitions and results in a more substantial, richly satisfying cinematic work. Clever---okay, whats clever about it, and what's great about it? As a disclaimer I'm only attacking LWOC because so many people have it in their top 5 and swear that its amongst the greatest Martial Art films ever. I just want someone to explain to me whats so great about this film, like "crazedjustice" stated, I have a hard time making it through to the end I get annoyed with it. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member mr HKmovie Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 If you make it to the end of LWOC, you will see unforgettable fight scenes that are miles ahead of the fight scenes in Boxer Rebellion. To most people, the most important thing in a KUNG FU movie is the KUNG FU. Boxer Rebellion is way too long, with mediocre kung fu. It is more of a drama with some fighting. When you consider that most people fell in love with kung fu movies as kids, not many kids are going to be excited by Boxer Rebellion. I doubt it lasted more than a week in the theater when I was young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venoms5 Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 BOXER REBELLION was 1975....LEGENDARY WEAPONS was 1982....totally different time periods and styles. LEGENDARY WEAPONS was about kung fu, while BOXER was about the fight against oppression. One is told on a grand scale while the other is a more concentrated effort. I doubt if Liu Chia Liang could have handled such a large scale production as it doesn't suit his style; not that he wouldn't have done one if given the chance. POLE FIGHTERS comes close, but it's still not on the same 'Cast of 1,000's' level of Chang Cheh's epics. Upon seeing the stripped down version of BOXER entitled THE BLOODY AVENGERS some years ago, I much preferred it to LEGENDARY WEAPONS not because of the kung fu, but because it contained that bloody heroic bravado Cheh was a master at capturing in his 1967-1976 output; something that was sometimes lacking in his later movies. However, I thoroughly enjoy LEGENDARY WEAPONS and think the kung fu is great. The only thing that bothers me is that stupid music that plays during the fake boxer shtick in the street with Fu Sheng and his cronies. The comedy was a necessity at that time in Hong Kong. Even Lu Chin Ku said in an interview in 1980 that he preferred doing movies with comedy in them as those were far more profitable than more serious productions. One of the best things about BOXER REBELLION and it's something a lot of people see as pointless is the long opening where you see the Empress in all her glorious pampering and vanity. This scene resonates even more later on once the invaders have gotten inside the Forbidden City and she's forced to leave her confines of wealth and exuberance dressed as a peasant woman, the look of disgrace and shame captured on her face. Both films are great and offer up opposing styles demonstrated by two directors doing what they did best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member FrankBolte Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 LKL LWoC just can't pull me in. I tried to watch it, but I literally cannot force myself to finish it. ( well i suggest you might try to watch the end,i know u are also a hung kuen practicioner so actually u should enjoy the choreography...which is far superior over boxers rebellion... i think those 2 films cant be compared...but oh well i prefer legendary weapons but also like boxersrebellion..there are better ones by chang cheh though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 However, I thoroughly enjoy LEGENDARY WEAPONS and think the kung fu is great. The only thing that bothers me is that stupid music that plays during the fake boxer shtick in the street with Fu Sheng and his cronies. Is that the "creaky" wheel music that they also played in Mad Monkey KF, that shit is annoying. Wow can't believe the hate for LWOC, one of my favorite movies, the weapons work is second to none, especially the end where the brothers Lau go at it, I also love the fight between Gordon and Ho when pops come in - "Step aside you used up your bag of tricks". The bathroom scene was hilarious:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venoms5 Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 Is that the "creaky" wheel music that they also played in Mad Monkey KF, that shit is annoying. Yes, that music and all the kazoo like sounds that accompany it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ironfistedmonk Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 LWOC isn't in my top SB films because the story doesn't make all that much sense but the action is fantastic. Boxer Rebellion doesn't do anything for me, yeah it's epic but it's an epic on the cheap and these kind of films need a huge budget for them to be done properly IMO. I watch these films for the kung and the action in this was pretty lackluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 Legendary Weapons is one of LKL's poorest films IMO, and I don't think its fair to compare 2 directors based on only 1 film (out of maybe 100) even if they have the same story. To compare the directors fairly you would need to compare all the films of one director against all the films of the other director. At the end of it, you see which director had the most wins, hence is the overall winner. You can't just, say, pick CC's Super Ninjas and pit it against LKL's Cat Vs. Rat because in each case the director had to work with actor Siao Yuk. Its obvious without even doing the experiment that LKL has directed more classics than CC where LKL wasn't choreographing CC's films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member lillippa328 Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 all i know is LWOC's final minutes made that film for me....it was a slow movie with enough squables here and there to keep me into it until that last fight, which is one of my favorite duels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Shaolin Patriot Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 I prefer Boxer Rebellion myself. Great Shaolin forms by Fu Sheng and Chi Kuan Chun and good battle sequences involving the boxers and foreign forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member teako170 Posted December 3, 2008 Member Share Posted December 3, 2008 Both films are great and offer up opposing styles demonstrated by two directors doing what they did best. Exactly. Apples vs. Oranges. They're both fruit but yet very, very different. However, I do see where Iron Boat is going. To me, BR is a phenomenal epic with some decent fu while LWOC is a great kung fu flick with sprinkles of a story about the Boxers. IOW, the film BR could exist if the fu were missing - but would not if the Boxer story were removed. On the flip, LWOC would survive w/o the mention of the rebellion - however cancel the fu and you would have no movie. I've only watched the latter film once and while no fan of the chuckle, I found Fu Sheng's cameo quite intoxicating. Anyhow, ran across this 2 page spread which LWOC fans might enjoy, so I popped it into the scanner for ya... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member FrankBolte Posted December 4, 2008 Member Share Posted December 4, 2008 great scann,thanks a lot ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member shaolin drunkard Posted December 4, 2008 Member Share Posted December 4, 2008 Its obvious without even doing the experiment that LKL has directed more classics than CC where LKL wasn't choreographing CC's films. If you say so...for me Venom films are ace without having filmography now at hand I`m quite certain I would go for CC even excluding LKL choreographed movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted December 4, 2008 Member Share Posted December 4, 2008 Teako!!!!! That scan is the she-iiiiiite!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member crazedjustice888 Posted December 4, 2008 Member Share Posted December 4, 2008 well i suggest you might try to watch the end,i know u are also a hung kuen practicioner so actually u should enjoy the choreography...which is far superior over boxers rebellion... The fight scenes are amazing, I give you that, I have always just been an empty hand kind of guy. I have AMAZING respect for the weapons fighters, its just not my cup of tea. I did however go to youtube and watch the end fight, and I liked it alot. I just like the styles featured in BR thats all. Its just a personal taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Boxer Rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted December 5, 2008 Member Share Posted December 5, 2008 If you say so...for me Venom films are ace without having filmography now at hand I`m quite certain I would go for CC even excluding LKL choreographed movies. More like you would go for the Venoms given the chance!!! Get over him; Chang Cheh was just a lazy old ****** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member shaolin drunkard Posted December 5, 2008 Member Share Posted December 5, 2008 More like you would go for the Venoms given the chance!!! Get over him; Chang Cheh was just a lazy old ****** I admit for my taste chang cheh is superior director and choreo in venom films is flashier than in lkl flicks.Of LKL`s numerous nobody diesorgetshurtbadly films only Heroes Of the East is 5/5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted December 5, 2008 Member Share Posted December 5, 2008 Sorry I cannot help you find the snuff movies you are looking for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member shaolin drunkard Posted December 5, 2008 Member Share Posted December 5, 2008 Have nice time with mickey mouse kung-fu movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted December 5, 2008 Member Share Posted December 5, 2008 I reckon Mystery Of Chess Boxing is the ultimate Mickey Mouse style kung fu movie; its about as pure and artistic, without being violent, as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.