Member crazedjustice888 Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 Look at how Chi Kuan Chun fights. You will see quite a bit of animal styles. You see all the five animals. In this movie however he doesn't show it very well. Its like the director is expecting the audience to identify on their own. Of course Fu Sheng showed Tiger and Crane like in almost all of his movies. I am actually starting to pay attention to him..lol. I prefer Chi Kuan Chun however. If memory serves me correctly, then Chen Kuan Tai uses traditional Hung Kuen with a lot of the Tiger Claw in it. I love this movie, but I prefer Shaolin Avengers personally. Still a good movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 When, in Men From The Monastery, does Chi use the 5 animal styles? When, in Men From The Monastery, does Fu Sheng use the Tiger and Crane? This question still remains: Heroes Two question: apart from Tiger and Crane, were any of the other Hung styles--seen in the short introduction film--used in the movie? I seem to recall Snake and Leopard/Panther/Jaguar + others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member crazedjustice888 Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 They do not advertise it when they use it. You have to be able to look at the movements and tell which movement comes from which style. In an actual fight you aren't going to scream out "I AM USING CRANE STYLE!!" Your body naturally flows from one style to another. That is what the two of them are doing. These two are experts in the Hung style. Since I train under this style I know what to look for. Not saying I am the final judge as to who uses what, I am just saying, from what I can see, they use movements from each style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 I watched the whole film today. Animal styles occur only during the end fight. BTW, I don't like the way Chang Cheh features simultaneous duels between many fighters at once. Chi Kuan Chun uses some of the 5 animal styles: about 1/3 during a few short segments his duel is given screen time (portraying a different animal each time). It could be argued that Chen Kuan Tai is using Hung style, though I don't think he's been told by the action choreographers to use it for this particular movie. It seems to me that Chen is using his own natural abilities to fight like he would have done in any basher of the pre-1975 period without special instructions to use a specific style. Chi Kuan Chun is also a real-life natural to the 5 animal styles, so whose to say he's been instructed to use them in Men From The Monastery. Fu Sheng uses no style whatsoever when fighting in Men From The Monastery other than punches, kicks and some open hand movements! Chi Kuan Chun is the "Kung Fu Star" of Men From The Monastery. Therefore, something isn't right with this film. Although its part of the "Shaolin Cycle", Liu Chia-Liang and Tong Gai (the action choreographers) hadn't at this stage thought about using animal styles remeniscent of Shaolin. So of course they would have released Heroes Two first! In other words, perhaps these guys pioneered the kung fu movie in 2 stages: 1) Make a new type of kung fu film away from the Bruce Lee genre--based on a theme of Shaolin (Men From The Monastery). 2) Make another Shaolin film, but with authentic styles (Heroes Two). The 2nd film is better; let's release that! I don't think this decision had anything to do with the leading actors. P.S. In Heroes Two, the heroes are deliberately showing the audience and making a point that they are using Hung, but in Men From The Monastery they aren't even using the styles. Therefore, seeing as 'Monastery was produced before Heroes Two, this provides more of an arguement in favour of my hypothesis outlined above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 They do not advertise it when they use it. You have to be able to look at the movements and tell which movement comes from which style. In an actual fight you aren't going to scream out "I AM USING CRANE STYLE!!" Your body naturally flows from one style to another. That is what the two of them are doing. These two are experts in the Hung style. Since I train under this style I know what to look for. Not saying I am the final judge as to who uses what, I am just saying, from what I can see, they use movements from each style. You obviously haven't watched the film in a while. I watched it tonight and Men From The Monastery is like any pre-1975 basher with the added bonus of Chi Kuan Chun doing his stuff (not to get confused with Heroes Two, which is a proper shapes film showcasing Hung style) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member crazedjustice888 Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 You make a very good point, I am just saying, he doesn't have to use the cranes beak to fight like the crane, or the tiger claw to fight like the tiger. Each style has its own unique fighting style without the hand shapes being applied. This is what I am talking about. I apologize for not clarifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 You make a very good point, I am just saying, he doesn't have to use the cranes beak to fight like the crane, or the tiger claw to fight like the tiger. Each style has its own unique fighting style without the hand shapes being applied. This is what I am talking about. I apologize for not clarifying. Okay, mate, I see what you are saying, but we are talking about a very crucial period in the kung fu movie: the transition from "basher" to "shapes". In most films produced after Heroes Two its very easy to spot a style being portrayed, and in films produced (in colour) before Heroes Two, animal styles are non-existent. Your theory is true for a few films where fighters are portraying real-life styles that are difficult for non-martial artists to interpret, but the chances of this occuring during such a pioneering stage of kung fu movie making is highly unlikely. Maybe the best thing is for you to re-watch the end fight and try to point out, technically, when you see movements being performed that are unique to Hung style. If the director and action choreographers are consciously making an effort to showcase Shaolin Kung Fu to the whole World then I don't think they would do so in the vague way your theory implies. In Heroes Two, they zoomed in on the claw and beak, and I'm not saying they need to do this in every film, but Men From The Monastery doesn't even come close to portraying Hung style. Its caught up in the transition in the sense that its post-Shaolin, but still a pre-shapes "Basher" or "PUNCH AND BLOCK" (as some of our compadres have described this early period of kung fu movies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member crazedjustice888 Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 I understand. I would.....but I don't have it. I did, but the disc went boom.... I know what you are saying though. I haven't seen that many old movies, but sadly, that is what today's movies are...ugh...lol What I am saying is well let me explain with examples. Crane - avoid and attack and misdirect attacks Tiger - straight-forward and powerful Panther - no defense just dodge and attack Snake - soft and slapping defense Dragon (lau family) - circular movements to use opponents momentum against him and to use yours for extra leverage. This is what I am meaning. However, you are right, I noticed that too in the end fight to heroes two and things like five shaolin masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 What kind of input did the aforesaid pioneering directors even bring to fight scenes in Men From The Monastery? To be honest they are pretty poor outside of Chi's isolated performance. Take Shrimp Fist from Sharp Fists In Kung Fu; this film is far superior to Men From The Monastery despite the former not having any major director/action director. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member crazedjustice888 Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 Sorry, I really don't know much about old movies. The only reason I ever watched Men from the Monastery is for Chi Kuan Chun. I just say what I see and from what I know from my teachings. I couldn't tell you about the directors goals and aims for the movies action sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 Chi is definitely high level! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member crazedjustice888 Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 That.....is...SO AMAZING!!! WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IMAGE???? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 Yeah mate, I thought you might like that one; one of my personal favourites. Its been in the archives since pre-millenium times waiting for the right moment to big up Chi Kuan Chun like he so deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member crazedjustice888 Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 HE IS THE GREATEST EVER!!! At least in my opinion....I COLLECT HIS MOVIES!!!! lol My gf knows that when we watch his movie, she needs to not distract me...LOL!!! Sad part is...I am serious....lol I hope one day, I can learn from him. That would be an absolute dream come true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 Men From The Monastery is actually Chi's first ever acting role, and he really shined. I would give him the title of "first shape-shifter of kung fu movies" ahead of Chen Kuan Tai and Fu Sheng! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member crazedjustice888 Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 Yeah, i noticed that he does more shapes than those two do. At least from what I have seen. I saw Alexander Fu Sheng perform some weird form in Boxer's Rebellion in front of the...was she the queen? I have no idea what he was doing, it looked like he was trying to do dragon, but even still...nothing close to CHI KUAN CHUN!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 I think Meng Fei is a bit overated in that sense... he's another JC type, albeit not as skilled. Fu Sheng's Crane stances were quite aesthetically pleasing in Heroes Two though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member crazedjustice888 Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 I think Meng Fei is a bit overated in that sense... he's another JC type, albeit not as skilled. Fu Sheng's Crane stances were quite aesthetically pleasing in Heroes Two though... Excuse me sir...but where is Meng Fei overrated in? I have only seen him in one movie. But yes, Fu Shengs crane stances make me jealous....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 Just in general really... Meng Fei has starred in tons of kung fu films, and many fans rate him highly, but I don't think he's anything special IMO. I can't even think of what his best performance might be...he's just average. Anyway, nice chatting to you, I'm off to watch Shaolin Martial Arts...be back later to big up Chi again and have another rant about the rest of the cast and crew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 I don't hold Men From the Monastery in the highest of esteem but I find the first two parts kind of weak, it picks up when Chen Kuan Tai joins the film, thats when it gets more interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member crazedjustice888 Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 Have fun, I love that movie too. I have only seen him in Five Shaolin Masters, so yeah....lol. He did pretty well in it. In my opinion it was the opposite, when it switched to Chi Kuan Tai, that is when I got bored. I guess thats just me...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 Watch Meng Fei in the Prodigal Boxer, in many people's opinion, he plays a better Fong Si Yu than Fu Sheng in that film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted November 20, 2008 Member Share Posted November 20, 2008 Watch Meng Fei in the Prodigal Boxer, in many people's opinion, he plays a better Fong Si Yu than Fu Sheng in that film. Agreed. Its a good film I find Fu Sheng's Fong Si Yu rather odd, especially in Shaolin Temple where he is downright annoying. That ass vulnerbility doesn't help either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member FrankBolte Posted November 21, 2008 Member Share Posted November 21, 2008 wow,long thread...good input. Falkor, Hung Kuen is not only 5 animals,the animals are also not always very obvious..there are also the 5 elements , Hung Kuen has also just plain straight punches,upper cuts,swinger,downward punches,short punches,blocks,simple kicks... I am fortunate to have learned the lau family hung boxing and teach it in Manila...so I can see hung kuen in every fight. Theres an interview from Chi Kuan Tai somewhere on youtube..listen what he got to say about LKL...also Fu Cheng learned Hung Kuen from LKL.. You can say almost all martial art actors at shaw brothers learned at some point from LKL...of course they just learned for the movies,Fu Sheng though learned more seriously from LKL. Chi Kuan Chun learned from Chiu Wai,Chiu Chi Ling brother hung kuen... In all the shaolin movies most of the characters are true people and they are all connecetd with hung kuen history...of course things have been added to make it more flashy..same goes for the fighting scenes...the animals being made more obvious and exagerated.. heres a webpage from Chi Kuan Chun http://www.chikuanchun.com/ But i understand where u coming from,in some of the movies they emphasize more on the distinguish animal techniques from Hung Kuen,and lets say if you dont practice the art its hard to recognise the more simple hung kuen right away..i can see it from the way they use blocks,or the footwork..just plain things... Films where hung kuen is very obvious (in my opinion) men from the monastry shaolin martial arts shaolin temple 5 shaolin masters heroes 2 shaolin avangers disciples of shaolin (hung boxing kid) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member falkor Posted November 21, 2008 Member Share Posted November 21, 2008 Films where hung kuen is very obvious (in my opinion) men from the monastry As you know, this film was the first in the "Shaolin Cycle", so the question is: how long had Chen Kuan Tai and Fu Sheng been learning Hung Kuen from LKL, and were they deliberately emphasising Hung Kuen movements for a new type of on-screen kung fu movie (Shapes) or were they simply using their natural abilities like they would have done in any pre-1975 basher? I'm no martial artist, but then I've watched enough kung fu movies to know that Fu Sheng isn't using any advanced Shaolin style in Men From The Monastery, though its clear he is in Heroes Two, Shaolin Martial Arts and movies thereafter. Again, I would specifically ask you to re-watch the end fight in Men From The Monastery (this topic is mainly concerned with this Shaolin movie in particular) and try to point out, technically, when you see any movements performed by Fu Sheng that you can uniquely attribute to Hung Technique. Chen Kuan Tai and Chi Kuan Chun are too good as real-life martial artists to properly assess the director and action choreographer's intentions on Men From The Monastery. Just to the remind you: my hypothesis is that the crew hadn't come to a conscious decision to feature Shaolin styles at this time (only movies with a Shaolin theme). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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