Jackie's Lo Wei pictures...anyone like any of them?

[Cognoscente]

Perhaps he didn't appear in The Big Boss because he didn't think the film would be a hit.

[starschwar]

Maybe he was somewhere in the numerous scenes deleted after the initial theatrical release?  Perhaps one of the surreal disfigured reflections in the river?  I mean, he probably didn't play the second prostitute Bruce's character visited, but we may never know for sure.

[Killer Meteor]

5 hours ago, Cognoscente said:

Perhaps he didn't appear in The Big Boss because he didn't think the film would be a hit.

I think the schedule simply didn't permit it. That said, he wasn't in his other Thai/Golden Harvest film The Tattooed Dragon either.

[starschwar]

Another 20+ year revisit:

 

Half a Loaf of Kung Fu! is an odd one.  I know movies are almost never filmed in sequential order, but I have a feeling this one actually may have been.  It starts off completely bonkers, with very little connectivity from scene to scene.  So many of the jokes just don't register with me at all.  And the fights are pretty sloppy early on.  But as the movie progresses, the plot becomes more coherent, the action choreography more dynamic, and the jokes land more often, and feel much more in line with what I associate with Jackie's brand of humor.  One thing that is consistent is that the imagery is interesting.  There's nice scenery, and the cinematography and editing are often artful or experimental.  It's my understanding that Lo Wei took a hands off approach on this one, letting Chen Chi-Hwa and Jackie kind of go nuts, and there's some interesting results accordingly.

 

I know it had a longer than usual production cycle, and filming overlapped with both SITES and Drunken Master - and the influence of those two Seasonals can really be felt in the second half (quarter-loaf?).   It still feels like there's a lot of cut (or unfilmed) story sequences.  And despite the very high image quality of the remaster presented on 88's Blu-Ray, there's a lot of missing frames along the way that are fairly jarring.  The female characters get in on the action much more than was typical for movies from this era, and that's a plus.  The "witch" villainess doesn't get to shine as much as I'd hoped, though.  I don't know how accurate the subtitles are, but if correct, this is certainly the most profane Kung Fu movie I've seen yet, which adds a unique layer of amusement.  I had a really good time revisiting it.  It's a neat time capsule of that transitional phase for Jackie, partially overlapping with the big breakout era.  I forgot all but maybe one minute's worth of this one, and I'm sure I liked it much more this time around than I did at the time.

 

Lo Wei era revisit rankings thus far:

• Shaolin Wooden Men
• New Fist of Fury (long version)
• Half A Loaf of Kung Fu!
• New Fist of Fury (short version)

Edited July 17, 2022 by starschwar

[starschwar]

The revisit continues.

 

Spiritual Kung Fu:

Let's get the elephant in the room out of the way:  the ghosts are absurd.  Even for a comedy.  The leotards, the wigs, the animal symbols on their heads.  It's just too much.  But beyond them, this movie's really solid.  The plot is really more of a thriller with some decent twists and turns.  The movie oscillates in tone so much that some of the later machinations are almost enough to make you forget that mere minutes earlier, there was a scene of Jackie Chan urinating on ghosts.  Almost.  The fight scenes are terrific!  Filmed concurrently with Drunken Master, the Seasonal influence is very strong.  Lots of variety in moves, coupled with some dynamic camera angles and editing (albeit with some jump cuts).  And it's all so fast!  The standout is an incredible brawl where Jackie uses a pair of Tonfas to engage a multitude of staff-wielding opponents.  In retrospect - Lo Wei was a really good director, more than I gave him credit for thanks to the VHS haze of my memories of these films.  While the movie doesn't have the same kind of heart as Jackie's two Seasonal flicks, it has enough of the same creative DNA that I feel comfortable placing this one well into the breakout phase.  Shaolin Wooden Men is probably a better all around movie in terms of film-making and certainly in terms of story, but the action is so well done that this one currently takes the throne as my favorite of the Jacikie / Lo Wei collabs.

 

For any Matrix fans - there may be a very obscure reference to this one in the defunct MMO!  There's a scene where the ghosts separate their legs from their torsos.  In The Matrix Online, the ghostly exile twins from Reloaded returned, but initially suffered the same disembodied dilemma.  Comparison screenshots will be attached.  Please excuse the low quality of the SKF one - my PC's blu-ray drive is region locked, so I had to resort to a Youtube clip.

 

To Kill With Intrigue:

I remembered absolutely nothing from my previous viewings decades ago.  What a bizarre movie.  And yes, I know I'm saying this after talking about the one with the Raggedy Ann ghosts.  But at least that one had a lot Jackie Chan DNA in there.  This - this is like peering into an alternate timeline where Jackie signed with Shaw Brothers instead of Golden Harvest.  He's almost unrecognizable here, both in appearance and in his on-screen persona.  The movie is well-filmed with good scenery, and the fights are decent Wuxia for the time.  But the plot - ugh, the plot.  I prefer my kung fu movies to have more elaborate stories than just "excuses for kicking", but not like this.  It isn't incomprehensible or anything.  But it isn't about anything either.  It's not too far removed from a typical "you must be tired of living" story from the time.  It's just that every single element, every story thread, every plot beat is three to four times more convoluted than it needs to be.  There's a lot of stuff involving lookalikes and mistaken identities.  When the villain reveals their master plan late in the movie, it brought about a strong "but why?!" from me, and not in a good way.  Other than a really twisted love triangle, there's not much to make the overly elaborate plot justified.  The film isn't bad, to be clear.  It's a unique movie in JC's filmography, but ultimately a failed experiment.  And, unless my memory has utterly failed me, one that they were wise to not repeat.

 

 

Current rankings:

• Spiritual Kung Fu
• Shaolin Wooden Men
• New Fist of Fury (long version)
• Half A Loaf of Kung Fu!
• New Fist of Fury (short version)
• To Kill With Intrigue

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by starschwar
Added screenshots.

[starschwar]

Dragon Fist:

Now that's a little more like it.  What seems like a straightforward master revenge type story takes some unexpected turns - but without too much obfuscation.  There's some interesting themes being explored - regret, repentance, honor, obligation, fairness.  Nothing earth-shattering in depth, but there's some meat to this story.  The movie takes its time to get all the pieces in place, with most of the good action being saved for the second half.  For Lo Wei's final film as director (unless he did some of the new Fearless Hyena II footage?), he seemed to be revisiting some of the structure of The Big Boss - good choice.  The action isn't as impressive as Spiritual Kung Fu, but much like it, it has the Seasonal influence in the speed and fluidity on display in the fights.  But it's a somber affair, divorced of the humor and sentimentality of SITES and Drunken Master.  One last attempt at melding Lo's more traditional approach with the new wave Jackie was helping to usher in.  Pretty good, but not one I see myself revisiting terribly often down the line. 

 

Current rankings:

• Spiritual Kung Fu
• Shaolin Wooden Men
• New Fist of Fury (long version)
• Dragon Fist
• Half A Loaf of Kung Fu!
• New Fist of Fury (short version)
• To Kill With Intrigue

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

20 minutes ago, starschwar said:

Dragon Fist:

Now that's a little more like it. 

The only good Lo Wei JC flick in my opinion.

[starschwar]

Dragon Lord;

Well, Lo Wei Motion Picture Company is credited, so I guess it technically counts.  The last of Jackie's breakout phase, and probably the weakest (I still need to rewatch Fearless Hyena to be sure).  It's been ages since I've seen this one, and this is my first time watching the extended cut.  Kudos to 88 for including it, and doubly so for whoever found and restored it - it's a miracle such a work in progress edit even exists.   My memory is way too hazy to comment on the big differences, but moving the Bun Festival scene to the end... doesn't really matter?  It has no bearing on the plot no matter where it's placed.  Technically impressive, but there's really no stakes to what's going on.  At least the record-breaking Jianzi scene played a role in both furthering the plot and factored in to the final fight.  I kinda feel that way about a lot of the movie.  It's made of recycled pieces of the other breakout era movies - Jackie's a rambunctious youngster with a jerk dad, he's got a partner in crime best friend, there's a girl he likes but the romance has no actual weight or depth to it.  There's a lot of jokes some land, some don't.  It had all been done before, and done better.  What the movie does do well is begin bridging the gap between the breakout phase and what would become the iconic stunt films that would follow shortly thereafter.  The final fight is really dynamic, especially considering the relatively small scope of the location it takes place in.  Still a lot better than the tried and true grassy field.  The scene on the rooftop with the spears is top-notch as well.  And this is, I think, the first of many of the "smuggling Chinese artifacts out of the country" plots that Jackie would revisit over the years.  And ultimately, most of the many plot elements just kind of stop mattering.  It's a neat transitional piece, but it isn't one that left me overly impressed outside its standout moments.  I'm going to let this one simmer for a while, and revisit the shorter final cut to see if it's more polished.

 

Two lingering questions:  In the poetry recitation scene, the subtitles at one point use the phrase, "Rumble in the Bronx".  That's cute, but what was really being said?

 

And which audio track / version features this piece of music?

 

 

Current rankings:

• Spiritual Kung Fu
• Shaolin Wooden Men
• New Fist of Fury (long version)
• Dragon Lord (extended work-in-progress version)
• Dragon Fist
• Half A Loaf of Kung Fu!
• New Fist of Fury (short version)
• To Kill With Intrigue

 

[Ninja Sinai]

Ive been huge fan of kung fu movies since the early 80s. I remember visiting the video stores in my local area every Friday and Saturday and renting loads of kung fu movies repeatedly. 

I remember how much I HATED all of Jackies Lo Wei movies. They were just terrible! Pure garbage! No where even near the league of SITES and DM etc. 

So 30 years later I thought let me revisit these movies again with an open mind seeing as they’ve been restored on Blu-ray. Well I can say for 100% that I still HATE them and they are still pure garbage. No amount of restoration can turn shit into gold! 😄

All of the Lo Wei JC movies range from below average at best to complete and utter crap. And this is coming from someone who is a huge fan of classic Kung fu movies who has seen has hundreds and hundreds of kung fu movies. 

What I find really annoying is how companies will restore and release these garbage movies while so many real classics are more deserving of being restored and released. Movies like: Legend of a Fighter, The Buddhist Fist, The Secret Rivals I & II etc. 

[Kevin Chan]

22 minutes ago, Ninja Sinai said:

What I find really annoying is how companies will restore and release these garbage movies while so many real classics are more deserving of being restored and released.

It's most definitely Jackie's name that enables this.

I'll try being a bit more optimistic about the situation: While I agree that there are some real stinkers among the Lo Wei films, I understand that fullscreen copies with bad dubs certainly don't help the cause. The films do benefit from their original 2,35:1 format, original language options and good subtitles. Still a bad film stays bad, but I appreciate the stuff they have been doing: They forged the path for Jackie to find his thing back in the day, and recently they sold well enough to convince the labels to release more lesser known titles in great quality.

[WaverBoy]

On 8/25/2022 at 8:29 AM, Ninja Sinai said:

Ive been huge fan of kung fu movies since the early 80s. I remember visiting the video stores in my local area every Friday and Saturday and renting loads of kung fu movies repeatedly. 

I remember how much I HATED all of Jackies Lo Wei movies. They were just terrible! Pure garbage! No where even near the league of SITES and DM etc. 

So 30 years later I thought let me revisit these movies again with an open mind seeing as they’ve been restored on Blu-ray. Well I can say for 100% that I still HATE them and they are still pure garbage. No amount of restoration can turn shit into gold! 😄

All of the Lo Wei JC movies range from below average at best to complete and utter crap. And this is coming from someone who is a huge fan of classic Kung fu movies who has seen has hundreds and hundreds of kung fu movies. 

What I find really annoying is how companies will restore and release these garbage movies while so many real classics are more deserving of being restored and released. Movies like: Legend of a Fighter, The Buddhist Fist, The Secret Rivals I & II etc. 

Happily, they’re not garbage at all, and these five are even very good to excellent:

SHAOLIN WOODEN MEN

SNAKE AND CRANE ARTS OF SHAOLIN

SPIRITUAL KUNG FU

DRAGON FIST

THE FEARLESS HYENA

And if we count DRAGON LORD, one more excellent film!

[starschwar]

The Killer Meteors:

There's some interesting moments, some bits of fun fight choreography, but nothing that stands out too well.  Lo Wei had an eye for scenery, both sets and locations.  Of course, Jackie is horribly miscast as a villain but he isn't outright terrible, either.  The movie's plot is a little more convoluted than it needs to be (nowhere nearly as much as TKWI).  There's a number of very odd moments throughout the film, some of which are explained later, but not all of them.  The writing seems more interested in twists than it is in making us care about the characters and that just doesn't work well for me.  I won't say it's a bad movie, but this one's really only worth it for Jackie (or Jimmy) superfans who need to see everything.

 

Snake and Crane Arts of Shaolin:

Even through the garbage quality of my old VHS and over two decades to let the memories fade - I still remembered this as being "the best of the early ones".  And my memory didn't fail me this time!  The fights are great - fast, lots of acrobatics, even some hints of the stuntwork and improvised fighting type choreography that Chan would become known for.  The plot works, the characters have some memorable qualities to them.   Jackie's in his arrogant but noble cocky hero mode here, and we get just the right amount of humor to go with it.  I'd go so far as to say that it's the earliest movie in Jackie's filmography that can truly be described as a "Jackie Chan movie", if that makes sense. 

 

Fearless Hyena:

Jackie really hit the ground running in his directorial debut.  While still very much cut from the same cloth as his two Seasonal films, he does bring some of his own unique style, and took to the art of it very well.  The movie has humor, sure.  But more importantly - it has heart.  Jackie's character grows, learns from his mistakes, often at great cost.  His grandfather and second master are endearing.  And the gimmick of emotional kung fu is fairly unique.  I like to think of this movie as the third of a thematic trilogy with the two Seasonals, and is of comparable quality.  Strongly recommended.

 

That's the end of the Lo Wei road for now!  It's been fun.  I can't say I disliked any of these movies.  Some are much better than I remember, the rest were at least watchable.  All were better experiences than my first impression decades ago.  At some point I'll revisit the theatrical cut of Dragon Lord - and I'm curious about the Crazy Monkey version of Fearless Hyena.  I hope 88 can get Magnificent Bodyguards out in 3D one of these days.  That'd be fun.  As for Fearless Hyena II - well, even though I have a much higher assessment of this era, I can't imagine it winding up anywhere but last on my list.  But I'm still looking forward to it.

 

Speaking of lists - I bumped Wooden Men back up above Spiritual.  SKF does have the better action of the two, but the story and imagery of SWM elevate it in retrospect.

 

Current rankings:

• Fearless Hyena
• Snake and Crane Arts of Shaolin
• Shaolin Wooden Men
• Spiritual Kung Fu
• New Fist of Fury (long version)
• Dragon Lord (extended work-in-progress version)
• Dragon Fist
• Half A Loaf of Kung Fu!
• New Fist of Fury (short version)
• The Killer Meteors
• To Kill With Intrigue

[Jizzmaster Jerry]

I’ve been dreading Killer Meteors for years now.  Had it in my collection forever, watched 5-10 minutes of it once and decided that it’s horrible and not worth watching.  But I finally dug it out of its grave and gave it a chance.  And it isn’t too bad.  Love the first fight with Jackie, but that’s the movie’s high point.  I wonder if Jackie is the one who taught the sickness style to that guy who lives in a coffin in the sequel to Drunken Master.  

[CaldoTheKid]

Yeah I enjoyed them all with Dragon Fist and To Kill With Intrigue being my favourites.

[mpm74]

New Fist of Fury, Dragon Fist and Fearless Hyena are great movies of the Lo Wei period. The rest are dull in my opinion, but I do have to give them all another watch. It has been years, and my movie-tastes have changed. 

[starschwar]

Edit for context:  This post was originally in the Eureka release thread, in response to something ShawAngela said about Lo Wei. Sorry if I went too far off topic!

 

I think Lo Wei in general is overdue for reevaluation.  I think a lot of the English speaking world's first impression of him wasn't even in movie form, but text.  In both I Am Jackie Chan and possibly other sources (books by Ric Myers and Bey Logan?), Lo is maligned as someone who did not appreciate Chan's talents and kept forcing him into projects that weren't suited to him rather than let him do his own thing.  There's this notion that he got lucky with Bruce, tried to replicate it with Jackie but was too inept to make it work a second time.  And of course, the Triad connection angle.  Furthermore, the picture quality of his Jackie movies was often horrendous when it came to home video releases, rendering much of the cinematography and action murky and unsatisfying.

 

I am in no way excusing any real life connections between Lo and criminality.  But if you just look at the movies... Lo wasn't some bully who tried to force Chan into molds.  He clearly saw incredible talent - ten movies in a four year period!  He knew he had something special on his hands, and kept trying new things, again and again:

 

• New Fist of Fury, while very much capitalizing on Bruce, did allow Jackie to have his own distinct persona, very much a prototype for his cocky Drunken Master mode.
• Shaolin Wooden men gave Jackie a chance to flex his physical acting wings, managed a balance between artful visual poetry and just a hint of the kind of playfulness that would define the breakout era.
• Killer Meteors;  A one-shot attempt at selling Chan as a villain and he knew better than to try a second time.
• Snake and Crane:  Basically the first true Jackie Chan movie.  Short of stunt work, it has everything one would expect out of one of his movies.  Like SWM, this should have been the big breakout moment, but it didn't work as well as it should have for some reason.
• To Kill With Intrigue: Trying a Shaw style role with a convoluted plot.  An idea rapidly abandoned for good reason.
• Magnificent Bodyguards: Putting spectacle and technical innovation to the forefront.  Not the best use of Chan, but he was clearly trusting his star with a milestone movie.
• Half a Loaf of Kung Fu:  He let Jackie and Chen Chi Hwa just do whatever they hell they wanted over a nine month period, and wound up with a messy result, but one can't say he  hampered Jackie's efforts to try and develop his screen presence.
• Spiritual Kung Fu: Filmed after the completion of SITES, in tandem with Drunken Master, Lo doubled down on comedy and elaborate action scenes.  He -did- see where Jackie flourished and attempted to cultivate this.
• Dragon Fist:  Also filmed alongside Drunken Master... it's another drama, but without the baggage of Bruce nor the Wuxia stylistic elements that hampered previous efforts.  Maybe it was a step backwards, but it was still not outright repetition.
• Abandoned film, title unknown:  After Drunken Master's success, Lo tried his hand at a new project.  Jackie insisted that he be given a chance to direct to replicate the success of his Seasonal films.  Relaunced as Fearless Hyena, with this abandoned film being used in FH2.
• Fearless Hyena:  Jackie got what he wanted, and so did Lo.

It wasn't so much that he tried to force Jackie to not be himself - without the trial and error, Jackie and Woo Ping wouldn't have been able to really hone in what it was that Jackie could and should be on screen.  I don't think any of these movies are bad (To Kill With Intrigue and Killer Metors do test the limits of this), and some of them (Wooden Men, Snake and Crane, Spiritual, Fearless Hyena) are hidden gems in Chan's filmography.  I can't speak to whatever it was that Lo did after the fact - or indeed, his work between Bruce and Jackie or any of his earlier stuff.  But with the benefit of modern restorations, these movies are a very different experience than the hazy days of Scimitar VHS.  I feel that Lo, as both director and producer, is severely underrated.

Edited February 25 by starschwar

[Knetan]

9 hours ago, ShawAngela said:

That's so strange that there are so many people who don't like this movie or some of the other movies directed by Lo Wei at Golden Harvest. Of course, to each his/her taste, but for me, they are all very good. These last days, I watched his Jackie Chan's movies and I loved them, and when I Watched Slaughter in San Francisco Asia Line version a while ago, I also loved it...

And of course, I love all Lo Wei's movies at the Shaws'.

Of course there are standouts in his filmography, he is a crucial figure. It's been highlighted before that he was good at crafting mood connected to horror (see the two workers killed by the saws in the ice factory in The Big Boss). Shaw Brothers was a bit more rigid so he couldn't go on flights of fancy with running time but I just feel the more he controlled the board himself, the more he let the films slip into excessive running times without backing it up with pace, tension. There's a reason distributors overseas cut so much for the export versions. But I'm of the age where I love documenting a maker who exhibit highs and lows, what they meant and did for the industry and I will never ever deny Lo Wei's status, As I always say, and it's not dismissive, I love when films and makers hit other people differently. Including loving and having fun with Yellow Faced Tiger/Slaughter. 

[PandaPawPaw]

Found these on Facebook.

Edited February 25 by PandaPawPaw
Sounded better in the noggin.

[tomgray2404]

On 7/24/2007 at 2:32 PM, Guest The Running Man said:

Generally all of these pictures that Jackie did during his Lo Wei era are totally dismissed in books and "experts" of the genre with dubious and ridiculous claims that they were just Bruce Lee-rip offs and totally forgettable films. But for the most part, I enjoy these titles. Dragon Fist, Fearless Hyena, Snake and Crane, Spiritual Kung Fu I think are all fine films.

 

Anyone else here like any of those titles from that era of Jackie's career?

It's down to taste and here's mine

In

Snake & Crane Arts of Shaolin

Dragon Fist

Spiritual Kung Fu

Fearless Hyena

Shaolin Wooden Men

Magnificant Bodyguards

Out

Half a Loaf of Kung Fu (God, that film is s**t!)

To Kill With Intrigue

New Fist of Fury

Fealess Hyena 2

None of these are are anywhere near as good as Snake in the Eagle's Shadow or The Drunken Master. However, they were made far quicker and Jackie didn't have the same amount of time to devote to each movie.

Regardles, I really rate Snake & Crane/ Dragon Fist. Those movies are terrrific.

[ShawAngela]

On 8/17/2022 at 10:51 PM, starschwar said:

Dragon Fist:

Now that's a little more like it.  What seems like a straightforward master revenge type story takes some unexpected turns - but without too much obfuscation.  There's some interesting themes being explored - regret, repentance, honor, obligation, fairness.  Nothing earth-shattering in depth, but there's some meat to this story.  The movie takes its time to get all the pieces in place, with most of the good action being saved for the second half.  For Lo Wei's final film as director (unless he did some of the new Fearless Hyena II footage?), he seemed to be revisiting some of the structure of The Big Boss - good choice.  The action isn't as impressive as Spiritual Kung Fu, but much like it, it has the Seasonal influence in the speed and fluidity on display in the fights.  But it's a somber affair, divorced of the humor and sentimentality of SITES and Drunken Master.  One last attempt at melding Lo's more traditional approach with the new wave Jackie was helping to usher in.  Pretty good, but not one I see myself revisiting terribly often down the line. 

 

Current rankings:

• Spiritual Kung Fu
• Shaolin Wooden Men
• New Fist of Fury (long version)
• Dragon Fist
• Half A Loaf of Kung Fu!
• New Fist of Fury (short version)
• To Kill With Intrigue

I rewatched it a few days ago, and for me, it's the best of the early Jackie's movie I have watched so far among Spiritual kung fu, Shaolin wooden men, new fist of fury and Snake and crane arts of shaolin, maybe ex aequo with Shaolin wooden men.

[ShawAngela]

12 minutes ago, tomgray2404 said:

Regardles, I really rate Snake & Crane/ Dragon Fist. Those movies are terrrific.

[Knetan]

That in and out list is nearly similiar to my tastes and views (Bodyguards in 2D probably does disservice to the film though so it's currently out). And in general that run with Lo Wei is essential to watch and even rewatch because it represents evolution towards something greater for him and the film industry. There are small and big nuggets in there that are telltale signs that something is happening.

[PandaPawPaw]

[SDJ]

It's neat how many of these are obviously shot during winter, with snow on the ground, visible breath, etc. You don't see many wintry kung fu movies for some reason. 

Sometimes the 70s KF purist in me gets more out of these than Jackie's "good" movies. Occasionally an oldschool kung fu potboiler with zero or minimal comedy and "merely good" fight choreography is more palatable than an all-out comedy with great choreography. (With the exception of Lo Wei era stuff like Fearless Hyena of course, which is also good but can be filed alongside Drunken Master in terms of complete goofiness.) 

 

Edited March 11 by SDJ

[One Armed Boxer]

2 minutes ago, SDJ said:

It's neat how many of these are obviously shot during winter, with snow on the ground, visible breath, etc. You don't see many wintry kung fu movies for some reason. 

I usually take that as one of the first indicators that the production has been shot in Korea.