Jackie's Lo Wei pictures...anyone like any of them?

[OldPangYau]

My question is, were any of these meant to be Cantonese? I've been toying with the Cantonese and Mandarin audio for Dragon Fist, and it seems like a case of a multi-lingual cast. Chan and Miao seem to speak Mandarin, while others like Yen Shi Kwan and Hsu Hsia *may* be speaking Cantonese.

[Killer Meteor]

My question is, were any of these meant to be Cantonese? I've been toying with the Cantonese and Mandarin audio for Dragon Fist, and it seems like a case of a multi-lingual cast. Chan and Miao seem to speak Mandarin, while others like Yen Shi Kwan and Hsu Hsia *may* be speaking Cantonese.

I think only FH and maybe FHII were Cantonese in conception. I think the others were all done in the period when Mandarin was the norm. But they are chock full of Koreans!

Half A Loaf was filmmed 77/78 and released in Korean in 1978 but didn't get shown in HK until 1980! Now, Lo Wei is said to have hated it but you'd think he'd have stuck it out a lot quicker to cash in on Jackymania!

[OldPangYau]

I think only FH and maybe FHII were Cantonese in conception. I think the others were all done in the period when Mandarin was the norm. But they are chock full of Koreans!

Half A Loaf was filmmed 77/78 and released in Korean in 1978 but didn't get shown in HK until 1980! Now, Lo Wei is said to have hated it but you'd think he'd have stuck it out a lot quicker to cash in on Jackymania!

Yeah, the Lo Wei era gets confusing as all hell. I'm guessing these were all of the ones that came out pre-Seasonal:

-New Fist of Fury

-Shaolin Wooden Men

-Killer Meteors

-To Kill With Intrigue

-Magnificent Bodyguards

-Snake and Crane Arts of Shaolin

And these were post-Seasonal:

-Dragon Fist

-Spiritual Kung Fu

-Half a Loaf of Kung Fu

-Fearless Hyena

-Fearless Heyna Part II

Of course, only the FH films were actually filmed after the Seasonal films, with the others sitting on the shelf. On a related note, how much (if any) new footage did Jackie actually film for FH2 before splitting for Golden Harvest? I'm fairly certain the restaurant scene with Shih Tien was a deleted scene from FH1 (most likely taking place after Jackie's failed attempt at getting a job as a coffin salesman), but the footage of Jackie and James Tien together doesn't look like it was taken from any other film. Also, not sure about the fight between Jackie and the female fighter (forgot her name). Jackie's hair looks much shorter in those scenes. Once again, confusing as hell

[Killer Meteor]

Yeah, the Lo Wei era gets confusing as all hell. I'm guessing these were all of the ones that came out pre-Seasonal:

-New Fist of Fury

-Shaolin Wooden Men

-Killer Meteors

-To Kill With Intrigue

-Magnificent Bodyguards

-Snake and Crane Arts of Shaolin

And these were post-Seasonal:

-Dragon Fist

-Spiritual Kung Fu

-Half a Loaf of Kung Fu

-Fearless Hyena

-Fearless Heyna Part II

Of course, only the FH films were actually filmed after the Seasonal films, with the others sitting on the shelf. On a related note, how much (if any) new footage did Jackie actually film for FH2 before splitting for Golden Harvest? I'm fairly certain the restaurant scene with Shih Tien was a deleted scene from FH1 (most likely taking place after Jackie's failed attempt at getting a job as a coffin salesman), but the footage of Jackie and James Tien together doesn't look like it was taken from any other film. Also, not sure about the fight between Jackie and the female fighter (forgot her name). Jackie's hair looks much shorter in those scenes. Once again, confusing as hell

The female actress puts on a ton of weight in the later footage. I hope she wasn't pregnant, for the baby's sake!

[Kwok Choi]

Speaking of Jackie's Lo Wei movies it is mentioned here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_%26_Crane_Arts_of_Shaolin ( scroll down to dvd releases ) and here http://jackiechandvds.co.uk/jackie-chan-movie-collection/snake-and-crane-arts-of-shaolin/ that 5 minutes of footage is missing from the 2002 Columbia / Sony Pictures region 1 USA dvd release which is seemingly restored in the 2007 Contender / Hong Kong Legends region 2 / 4 dvd release of Snake And Crane Arts Of Shaolin.

Now 5 mins is a lot of footage so I want to know what scenes were actually cut from the Region 1 disc. I mean this movie was hardly category III so I'm baffled at the Stateside decision to trim it and somehow even refuse to believe that there are major cuts till there is proof as I don't think a censored print was authored.

Has someone ever compared the 2 dvds with screenshots of the missing footage and running time taking into account Pal/Ntsc frame rates ( ntsc runs faster than pal by approx 9 secs a minute which adds up ) and the various logos at the start before the opening credits?

[TheGrimReaper]

My personal favorites from that obscure era in Jackie Chan's fimography would be:

(in no particular order):

Dragon Fist

Half a loaf of kung fu

Spiritual Kung Fu

Fearless Hyena

Snake and crane arts of Shaoiln

Shaolin Wooden Men is not so good, but it is worth a mention.

Greetings

[Killer Meteor]

Speaking of Jackie's Lo Wei movies it is mentioned here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_%26_Crane_Arts_of_Shaolin ( scroll down to dvd releases ) and here http://jackiechandvds.co.uk/jackie-chan-movie-collection/snake-and-crane-arts-of-shaolin/ that 5 minutes of footage is missing from the 2002 Columbia / Sony Pictures region 1 USA dvd release which is seemingly restored in the 2007 Contender / Hong Kong Legends region 2 / 4 dvd release of Snake And Crane Arts Of Shaolin.

Now 5 mins is a lot of footage so I want to know what scenes were actually cut from the Region 1 disc. I mean this movie was hardly category III so I'm baffled at the Stateside decision to trim it and somehow even refuse to believe that there are major cuts till there is proof as I don't think a censored print was authored.

Has someone ever compared the 2 dvds with screenshots of the missing footage and running time taking into account Pal/Ntsc frame rates ( ntsc runs faster than pal by approx 9 secs a minute which adds up ) and the various logos at the start before the opening credits?

The reason the Columbias were cut is that they were given whatever Jimmy Shaw's Alpha Films had to hand. Snake & Crane seems to be missing footage due to print damage (the original UK Eastern Heroes disc is missing the same footage aside from having a bit extra), Dragon Fist is a shorter re-edit, Shaolin Wooden Men is the old video master missing the entire first reel. Those transfers were from fairly old video masters.

[OldPangYau]

The reason the Columbias were cut is that they were given whatever Jimmy Shaw's Alpha Films had to hand. Snake & Crane seems to be missing footage due to print damage (the original UK Eastern Heroes disc is missing the same footage aside from having a bit extra), Dragon Fist is a shorter re-edit, Shaolin Wooden Men is the old video master missing the entire first reel. Those transfers were from fairly old video masters.

The Sony DVDs were very hit and miss. The one "gem" was New Fist of Fury, which seems to be one of the few sources of the uncut version of the film in widescreen. However, according to jackiechandvds.co.uk, apparently the German and French releases have both cuts. However, the German version, if I read correctly, has a Cantonese mono track on the uncut version. While not the original dialect, it's interesting to see a longer Cantonese version (if true).

[Gaijin84]

Well, im guessing the original 1971 print has the real jackie fighting at the end and only both the 1979 versions are doubled?

I dont see why Jackie would be doubled in the original print, im not sure if theres any new Jackie Chan footage in the 1979 version except for footage taken from other movies such as drunken master.

Does anyone know who was doubling for Jackie in the Master with Cracked Fingers version? Just finished watching it (I think worse than the original cut) and was interested in who that was.

[Secret Executioner]

Got a bunch of those, but from the (very) few I've seen, Snake And Crane Arts Of Shaolin could be my fav'. Spiritual Kung Fu is okay, I like the comedy in that.

[sdog2006]

Snake and Crane, Spiritual Kung Fu and Dragon Fist for me.

Fearless Hyena is a quality film but I grew up on the English dub and Jackie's voice in it destroyed my life. Never bought the Cantonese one, but would still have the three listed as my preference in any case.

Soft spot for Magnificent Bodyguards because I'm such a fan of James Tien.

To Kill With Intrigue, Killer Meteors, Shaolin Wooden Men? No thanks.

[JCLegend86]

I remember Spiritual Kung Fu, Half a Loaf and Killer Meteors to be really bad and I had to force myself through them.

Dragon Fist, Snake and Crane and Shaolin Wooden Men are decent movies. But the one that stood out to me was Fearless Hyena with the english dub.

Do I dear to watch To Kill With Intrigue or Magnificent Bodyguards?

[DrNgor]

The fights between Jackie Chan and Hsu Feng were the highlights of TO KILL WITH INTRIGUE, plus a funny death involving a roof and the Tiger's Head Hooks.

MAGNIFICENT BODYGUARDS was fun, as far as I can remember.

SNAKE AND CRANE ARTS OF SHAOLIN is not only one of my favorite old school Jackie Chan movies, it's one of my favorite Jackie Chan movies period and one of my favorite traditional kung fu movies, too.

[paimeifist]

I thought Shaolin Wooden Men was just okay. The sets/locations were nice, and Kam Kongs character was really cool, (but was in a way like a lesser version of Hwang in Shiek from Young Master)

I plan to see Kill with Intrigue very soon.

[DragonClaws]

The final fight on the mound is all I can recall from To Kill With Intrigue.

Magnificent Bodyguards was filmed in 3D so a lot of kicks, punches and weapons get thrown at the screen. This hampers the film a lot but its not all bad. James Tien's character is entertaining and comes out with some funny dubbed one liners. I found the film more entertaining than TKWI, just don't expect much from it.

[Cognoscente]

On 11/19/2008 at 7:32 PM, Killer Meteor said:

I think Fearless Hyena was my least favourite (not the same as worst), but i think it's just that annoying comic trio in the first half that drag it down. the second half is very good

One of the things that I have come to appreciate about the movie is the fact that Jackie wanted to make a Chinese Three Stooges, and have the trio be in stark contrast to the trio of spearmen who he fights.

[wmcguire18]

Could someone more familiar with the Lo Wei era Jackie Chan films than I give me a snapshot of which films are worth watching and which ones aren't? My impression is that SHAOLIN WOODEN MEN and SNAKE AND CRANE ARTS OF SHAOLIN are the best of the bunch but I'd really like to get some inside info from the community first.

[kuenfist]

Dragon Fist is great too.

[WaverBoy]

5 hours ago, wmcguire18 said:

Could someone more familiar with the Lo Wei era Jackie Chan films than I give me a snapshot of which films are worth watching and which ones aren't? My impression is that SHAOLIN WOODEN MEN and SNAKE AND CRANE ARTS OF SHAOLIN are the best of the bunch but I'd really like to get some inside info from the community first.

I quite like all of the following, especially the first and last:

SHAOLIN WOODEN MEN

SNAKE AND CRANE ARTS OF SHAOLIN

SPIRITUAL KUNG FU

DRAGON FIST

THE FEARLESS HYENA

Haven’t seen KILLER METEORS, MAGNIFICENT BODYGUARDS or HALF A LOAF OF KUNG FU yet.

[Asmo]

Half a Loaf of Kung Fu is quite fun. Killer Meteors is more a Jimmy Wang Yu film but Jackie puts in a good performance. And Magnificent Bodyguards... I'm due for a rewatch but I remember enjoying it!

[WaverBoy]

38 minutes ago, Asmo said:

Half a Loaf of Kung Fu is quite fun. Killer Meteors is more a Jimmy Wang Yu film but Jackie puts in a good performance. And Magnificent Bodyguards... I'm due for a rewatch but I remember enjoying it!

Yeah, ya know, I haven’t had a problem with any of the supposedly vastly inferior Lo Wei era Jackie films — even the least of them, NEW FIST OF FURY and TO KILL WITH INTRIGUE, still have much to recommend them and are definitely worth watching and owning IMO if you’re a Jackie fan. And the others are all very good to great. The supposed general inferiority of those films is a myth IMO. It makes a huge difference to have them all in complete pristine scope condition. So looking forward to HALF A LOAF OF KUNG FU, KILLER METEORS, and hopefully MAGNIFICENT BODYGUARDS 3D someday too!

Edited April 3, 2022 by WaverBoy

[Asmo]

6 hours ago, WaverBoy said:

Yeah, ya know, I haven’t had a problem with any of the supposedly vastly inferior Lo Wei era Jackie films — even the least of them, NEW FIST OF FURY and TO KILL WITH INTRIGUE, still have much to recommend them and are definitely worth watching and owning IMO if you’re a Jackie fan. And the others are all very good to great. The supposed general inferiority of those films is a myth IMO. It makes a huge difference to have them all in complete pristine scope condition. So looking forward to HALF A LOAF OF KUNG FU, KILLER METEORS, and hopefully MAGNIFICENT BODYGUARDS 3D someday too!

I definitely think that's part of it, seeing these films released ad infinitum as VHS quality transfers (before the HKLs at least) probably coloured some of the fanbase's opinion. I'm glad they're getting the reappraisal that they deserve, even if they're not perfect films.
Agreed! A release of the 3D version of Magnificent Bodyguards would be swell!

[starschwar]

13 hours ago, wmcguire18 said:

Could someone more familiar with the Lo Wei era Jackie Chan films than I give me a snapshot of which films are worth watching and which ones aren't? My impression is that SHAOLIN WOODEN MEN and SNAKE AND CRANE ARTS OF SHAOLIN are the best of the bunch but I'd really like to get some inside info from the community first.

I revisited New Fist of Fury and Shaolin Wooden Men within the past few months, via the 88 Films Blu-Rays.  My previous impressions were the Simitar VHS dubs from about 20 years prior - at the time, I found NFOF to be really bad, and SWM to be merely okay.

 

But with top-notch restoration, better translations, and a fresh reappraisal - I wound up liking them both a lot!  New Fist of Fury isn't really what you'd want or expect out of a Jackie Chan movie per se  - Jackie isn't even the driving force of the plot.  Noria Miao's character is probably the closest we get to a main protagonist, but it's much more of an ensemble piece, with Jackie left to do the heavy lifting.  In my memories, he was just doing a really poor Lee impersonation, but this time around I see his character as much more of a prototype for his persona in the Drunken Master movies.  Brash, but not heartless.  And while the choreography isn't anything compared to what'd come later in his career, the fights are solid.  It's actually a decent sequel to the original.  I'm basing this on the longer Mandarin version, to be clear - I haven't given the re-edited and re-written abridged Canto version a go just yet.

 

Shaolin Wooden Men is terrific, especially for this early phase!  As much as I adore Snake in Eagle's Shadow (still my favorite of his career), this one deserved to have been his big breakout instead.  It's a really cool premise - and not just the titular wooden men.  There's some visual poetry on display, contrasting martial philosophies in ways beyond combat.  This one is much more in line with Jackie's breakout phase - Snake in Eagle's Shadow through Dragon Lord - to the point where I'd even call it kind of a prototype for that era.  Strong recommendation.

 

I look forward to revisiting the rest of the Lo Wei era eventually.  In my memories, they were all poor to mediocre.  But perhaps they were just the victims of exceptionally bad home releases that obscured their actual merit.

[One Armed Boxer]

@wmcguire18, @kuenfist, @WaverBoy, @Asmo, @starschwar - Have re-located the Jackie Chan/Lo Wei discussion posts to this dedicated thread. Plenty more opinions on display from earlier discussions to enjoy as well!

[Killer Meteor]

I'd say the best Lo Wei/JC films are SHAOLIN WOODEN MEN and SNAKE & CRANE ARTS OF SHAOLIN...my introduction to traditional classic kung fu!