Member Mark Pollard Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 In cooperation with a request by Celestial Pictures Limited, Kung Fu Cinema is putting in place a ban on the uploading of unauthorized images from the Shaw Brothers film library on these forums. Members are no longer permitted to upload any unauthorized stills from Shaw films, either by posting to their photo albums or by attaching images to posts. "But what about all those Shaw images scattered around Kung Fu Cinema's main site," you might ask. Cover art and stills provided by licensed distributors for use in reviews is authorized. Regardless, I will be combing through the server's image files to remove any unauthorized images that may by published on the main site as well. Mods will be going through member photo albums and deleting Shaw images. Members who have posted any Shaw images can help us out by deleting their own. I know this may be frustrating for some members but I hope everyone understands and appreciates the need for Celestial to protect their assets, particularly given the large investment they have made in restoring and redistributing a large percentage of the Shaw library. I will leave this thread open for discussion so long as it remains civil. To be clear, this ban is not up for debate. Edit: Screen caps (for review/comparative purposes), magazine scans (for magazines no longer in print) and cover art are still allowed. Only production stills are not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member gfanikf Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Wait, what about Fair Use for non-profit debate or discussing the image quality of a DVD. This reeks of the type of crap that Toho would pull in regards to Godzilla. I understand Mark's decision because of the consequences. Still, I would love to read the request. I think it is puffing on Celestial's part and isn't allowed by the Fair Use Doctrine. I can't imagine any court would do anything more than laugh it off. I really feel Celestial should not be allowed to abuse Copyright law like this, hell it would be nice if they spent more time trying to remove major commercial bootleggers from circulation. I understand you decision and why you would not challenge Celestial, but I would please ask you to take a look at the Fair Use Doctrine and consider crafting rules that work with it, instead of a blanket action. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 § 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use40 Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include — (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member oldeschool17 Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 I understand the predicament Mark and respect the position he is in, but I have to rant on how dumb Celestial is. These morons cant even put in an effort to combat against brick and mortar/online stores selling bootleg dvds(panmedia/red sun,etc) but want to focus on cracking down images that are online. Way to have priorities! No wonder that company is full of fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member chen lung Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Yes, it's pretty hypocritical of the tight-arsed Celestial, but there ya go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member oldeschool17 Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Does that extend to foreign countries, considering Celestial is in HK? Or is it because they license/distro their stuff to companies in the US that it's a moot point and coincide with the Fair Use? Wait, what about Fair Use for non-profit debate or discussing the image quality of a DVD. This reeks of the type of crap that Toho would pull in regards to Godzilla. I understand Mark's decision because of the consequences. Still, I would love to read the request. I think it is puffing on Celestial's part and isn't allowed by the Fair Use Doctrine. I can't imagine any court would do anything more than laugh it off. I really feel Celestial should not be allowed to abuse Copyright law like this, hell it would be nice if they spent more time trying to remove major commercial bootleggers from circulation. I understand you decision and why you would not challenge Celestial, but I would please ask you to take a look at the Fair Use Doctrine and consider crafting rules that work with it, instead of a blanket action. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member gfanikf Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Does that extend to foreign countries, considering Celestial is in HK? Or is it because they license/distro their stuff to companies in the US that it's a moot point and coincide with the Fair Use? Yep, it governs the use of any copyrighted material in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Mark Pollard Posted November 13, 2008 Author Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Wait, what about Fair Use for non-profit debate or discussing the image quality of a DVD. This reeks of the type of crap that Toho would pull in regards to Godzilla. I understand Mark's decision because of the consequences. Still, I would love to read the request. I think it is puffing on Celestial's part and isn't allowed by the Fair Use Doctrine. I can't imagine any court would do anything more than laugh it off. I really feel Celestial should not be allowed to abuse Copyright law like this, hell it would be nice if they spent more time trying to remove major commercial bootleggers from circulation. I understand you decision and why you would not challenge Celestial, but I would please ask you to take a look at the Fair Use Doctrine and consider crafting rules that work with it, instead of a blanket action. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 I am familiar with fair use and I make use of it on the site. The real issue is allowing members to post their own image content here. Any major commercial site that hosts media content requires that its users agree not to publish unauthorized copywritten material for the same reason I'm having to deal with this issue now. Any time a copyright holder wants to make a claim they go after the host. While it may or may not be debatable whether or not I have grounds to dispute their claim in this case I have no interest in doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ironfistedmonk Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Boooooo!!!! Miserable bleeders, they haven't exactly made good use of any stills/images for the DVD covers have they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member David Rees Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Crazy, stills or pictures publicise there product anyhow! Bootleggers should be targetted not fans who are spreading the word on Shaw films...:quiet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Crazy, stills or pictures publicise there product anyhow! Bootleggers should be targetted not fans who are spreading the word on Shaw films...:quiet: Exactly....! They are so pathetic it is just sad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Maybe Celestial should spend more time properly mastering their films and less whinging about fans posting stills on forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Shaolin Patriot Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Yes, it would certainly be nice if this "ban" also applied to online sites where bootleggers sell merchandise. They do more than merely upload images. I don't see Celestial stepping in to block them. At least we don't profit from our actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Amazing Psycho Per Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Pfff... I read my share of crap on the board this week but this ranks up there... I'd like to hear in what capacity does it hurts them that people post image on this site. Instead of wasting their energy in pursuing such futile battles they should go back and remaster the rest of the catalog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 But on a brighter note.... I see Sleepman is banned from the board.... that made my day! Sorry... back on topic! Celestial has the weirdest 'business politics' I have ever encountered. It's like they have no idea what they are doing. I understand a need for control of your product. But does the phrase 'word of mouth' mean anything to these people?! It was on the net, and fan communities like this, that I re-discovered my love of kung fu (especially Shaws) films. You just wanna scream from a hilltop.... "WE ARE THE ONES BUYING YOUR STUPID MOVIES A-HOOOOOOLEEEEES!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Sleepman...Daigoro right? He scares me - MAry anne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member luckystars Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Shocking! It's as if this forums' some home of illegal copyright infringement and theft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member oldeschool17 Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Pfff... I read my share of crap on the board this week but this ranks up there... I'd like to hear in what capacity does it hurts them that people post image on this site. Instead of wasting their energy in pursuing such futile battles they should go back and remaster the rest of the catalog... Their claim is that "bootleggers" use the images to create posters, dvd covers, etc. Again, celestial are fuckin idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member natoral Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 This is a veiled message telling us WE WILL learn to love those god awful 5.1 remixes. :l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kingofkungfu2002 Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Members are no longer permitted to upload any unauthorized stills from Shaw films, either by posting to their photo albums or by attaching images to posts What about posting links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Mark Pollard Posted November 13, 2008 Author Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 What about posting links? Celestial said nothing about links so neither will I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member greenfan Posted November 13, 2008 Member Share Posted November 13, 2008 Celestial really know how to please the fans, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member spannick Posted November 14, 2008 Member Share Posted November 14, 2008 it only shows they have no damn clue what is really going on... AGAIN i think a good idea is to post some links with RAR-Files again, eh? i have some that were posted here some years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Raul4510 Posted November 14, 2008 Member Share Posted November 14, 2008 I say boycott Celestial! What a load-O-crap!!! Man this has been a depressing week at Kungfucinema.com! What the fuck is next?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Delirious Posted November 14, 2008 Member Share Posted November 14, 2008 I say we not boycotting. Despite feeling unpleasant toward Celestial's recent rule book, you have to recognize their ownership. Those are Celestial's property, they might do whatever they want. Secondly, Celestial still has a large number of non-restored movies. As true fans, our interest is seeing Celestial restore those movies. By boycotting,or sometimes breaking the rules, aren't we making it more difficult for Celestial to have the confidence of moving forward? Low sales already setback Celestial's financial fund to invest in newer stuff. I think the best we could do is continue our support so they will have the confidence to move forth. After all our interest is seeing Shaw movies with better treatment while their interest is making profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted November 14, 2008 Member Share Posted November 14, 2008 This is a veiled message telling us WE WILL learn to love those god awful 5.1 remixes. :l I already do... :quiet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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