The Chor Yuen Headache: Finally Identified

[Iron Boat]

I don't hate clan fiction, as a matter of fact, I'll buy any film I can find just to experience it. I particularly like the mood, atmosphere, and regal persona's of the characters, however, these films are known to either put you to sleep or give you a confused headache. I always thought the culprit of Chor Yuen films in particular was the convoluted plot, plot holes, and endless side characters. However I realize that's not the problem at all, all that stuff is cool!!!

After watching Death Duel again last night, (one of the films I find easy to follow) I realize what I dislike the most of Chor Yuen's film making. "The Quick Cuts and Edits" the way characters just show up from behind a tree and say something crazy and blink, their off the screen. The way someone says go to Swampy Mansion, and in the next scene their at Swampy Mansion. No travel sequence, no stops along the way, just a quick cut right to the next location.

Or how a group of swordsmen is introduced, some villian guy jumps in the middle and fight, you hear a swipe swipe bling, an all the swordsmen fall. Hey what happened to the amazing action sequence!!!!??? That was only an artistic blur???? A quick edit

Or how a female who loves sex is always the villain whose only role is to talk too much and say that some other's guy's sword is the fastest. therefore kill him.

Or how a hero character is suppose to be a detective, but they never find clues, only walk into one trap sequence after another, like a trap in a swampy mansion for instance.

But oh well, the quick cuts and edits likely is all about fitting the film into a 90 minute time span. I think if these directors were allowed to expand their films and tell the story properly many of these films would be less headache inducing. Until then, see you at the Swampy Mansion!!!

[SamuraiDana]

You're talking about the Chor Yuen films that are based on novels by Ku Lung. Ku Lung is the culprit, not Chor Yuen. Check out Chor Yuen films that are NOT based on Ku Lung, e.g. WEB OF DEATH, CONVICT KILLER, THE KILLER (SACRED KNIVES OF VENGEANCE), DESCENDANT OF THE SUN, or DUEL FOR GOLD.

And check out films based on Jin Yong/Louis Cha, e.g. Chang Cheh's BRAVE ARCHER series, Hua Shan's LITTLE DRAGON MAIDEN and Liu Shih-yu's NEW TALES OF THE FLYING FOX. Similar type of stories, but they're not as restrained as Chor Yuen's Ku Lung adaptations. Chang Cheh, in particular, gets closer to the action than Chor Yuen does. I was always bothered by Tang Chia's staging of the action scenes in Chor Yuen's Ku Lung films. Too theatrical, too stylized, not enough actual fighting.

[greenfan]

I havent met Chor Yuen film I dont like yet.

If one of his films hasnt got 48 characters and 17 plot twists, I feel short-changed, quite frankly.

[venoms5]

The novels these films are based on are often times huge and don't allow for everything to be explained in 90 to 100 minutes. Only those overly familiar with the original source material will understand much of what is seen as convoluted by those who are not.

And those mentioned by SamuraiDana above are great ones to check out especially WEB OF DEATH (1976). There's still lots of characters but those movies are more linear and easily understood. CONVICT KILLER (1980) is also of interest as it's a swordplay mystery planted into the realm of the kung fu genre.

[Yu_Xihong]

Death Duel is my favorite SB movie overall because I like the presentation. Each element unto itself is great. "Side characters" usually die but not always which is the basics for the wuxia body count. The difference between these movies and others is that in his movies... the people who die (extras) are almost always familiar faces. For me, that adds alot of watchability. If I see Goon Goong Chung in a Chu Yuan movie, and I always do, I know he's gonna die but I always wonder when and how it will stack up against his other deaths. I can say the same about Lau Wing, Pai Piao, Yuen Hua, Ngaai Fei, and Yuen Bun. The fun lies in seeing the same people over and over and their different chemistry each time (as backwards as that sounds) but as Shaw fans we're used to this. After a while, even though they're used as extras they become more than extras. Because they're not quite stars they can fill any spot. I'm placing alot of emphasis on dying because I think he broke the trend of the revenge kill or everybody dies trend. His heroes usually live and they level up...lol... even if they don't want the top spot. Almost anybody can be the (or a) villain (Candy Wen/Fu Sheng/Derek Yee/David Chiang).

Sometimes I watch a Chu Yuan movie and wonder where "X" person is. If I see enough mystery characters more likely than not I find who I was looking for. It becomes a game and each movie is a puzzle. On top of his usual cast he does add cameos, and alot of misc other characters from other "groups" (Shaolin group/venom group/Lau Kar Leung group). The trap concept is cool IMO because it works in atleast 2 ways... the hero uses their grade A skill to get out (3rd Master) or they're omniscent and cannot be trapped (Fu Hung Hsueh). They can afford to fall in traps. In the old movies, if they fell into a trap usually they died and that sort of death was reserved for stars (ie revenge kills... Heroic Ones, Vengeance, Triple Irons, Disciples of Shaolin, Man of Iron, Iron Bodyguard, Blood Brothers).

I remember watching Pursuit of Vengeance, I think, and at one point in the movie there was a guy sitting drinking with his back turned. He looked like any other guy. It could have been anyone, but without knowing the back story or anything, I had a feeling it was Derek Yee. The guy turned around and who was it? It was Derek Yee. I was pleasantly surprised but not really.

I don't like all of his movies (hated The Black Lizard, Web of Death, Roving Swordsman, and The Murder Plot) but when it's done right... it's really done RIGHT (ie Death Duel).

[Iron Boat]

Death Duel is my favorite SB movie overall because I like the presentation. Each element unto itself is great. "Side characters" usually die but not always which is the basics for the wuxia body count. The difference between these movies and others is that in his movies... the people who die (extras) are almost always familiar faces. For me, that adds alot of watchability. If I see Goon Goong Chung in a Chu Yuan movie, and I always do, I know he's gonna die but I always wonder when and how it will stack up against his other deaths. I can say the same about Lau Wing, Pai Piao, Yuen Hua, Ngaai Fei, and Yuen Bun. The fun lies in seeing the same people over and over and their different chemistry each time (as backwards as that sounds) but as Shaw fans we're used to this. After a while, even though they're used as extras they become more than extras. Because they're not quite stars they can fill any spot. I'm placing alot of emphasis on dying because I think he broke the trend of the revenge kill or everybody dies trend. His heroes usually live and they level up...lol... even if they don't want the top spot. Almost anybody can be the (or a) villain (Candy Wen/Fu Sheng/Derek Yee/David Chiang).

Sometimes I watch a Chu Yuan movie and wonder where "X" person is. If I see enough mystery characters more likely than not I find who I was looking for. It becomes a game and each movie is a puzzle. On top of his usual cast he does add cameos, and alot of misc other characters from other "groups" (Shaolin group/venom group/Lau Kar Leung group). The trap concept is cool IMO because it works in atleast 2 ways... the hero uses their grade A skill to get out (3rd Master) or they're omniscent and cannot be trapped (Fu Hung Hsueh). They can afford to fall in traps. In the old movies, if they fell into a trap usually they died and that sort of death was reserved for stars (ie revenge kills... Heroic Ones, Vengeance, Triple Irons, Disciples of Shaolin, Man of Iron, Iron Bodyguard, Blood Brothers).

I remember watching Pursuit of Vengeance, I think, and at one point in the movie there was a guy sitting drinking with his back turned. He looked like any other guy. It could have been anyone, but without knowing the back story or anything, I had a feeling it was Derek Yee. The guy turned around and who was it? It was Derek Yee. I was pleasantly surprised but not really.

I don't like all of his movies (hated The Black Lizard, Web of Death, Roving Swordsman, and The Murder Plot) but when it's done right... it's really done RIGHT (ie Death Duel).

Interesting assessment, you definitely have an amusing and entertaining view of the films. I can certainly see how making a "game" out of viewing the films can be interesting. In fact, I use to somewhat do that with Cheng Cheh's films as well. Like you, Death Duel is probably my favorite, along with Killer Clans, Magic Blade largely cause I liked the journey of the main character. Also the Lo Lieh, David Chiang, and Ti Lung cameos added to its value!! I should point out that I am referring to Chor Yuen's Ku Lung adaptations not his entire body of work. I think the majority of his Ku Long adaptations are great films, but could of been greater if many of the wierd twist and countless characters were left out. Two in particular that are hampered by this IMO are The Sentimental Swordsman and Clans of Intrigue.

[Cesare]

I've realized I really prefer to watch Chor Yuen's adaptations of Gu Long after having done my homework. His films work better for me when I know the book...

[Atherton]

It's surprising they're not even more confusing, considering he was working on multiple films at the same time.

[quixote64]

I havent met Chor Yuen film I dont like yet.

If one of his films hasnt got 48 characters and 17 plot twists, I feel short-changed, quite frankly.

haha, exactly.

[kungfusamurai]

Sometimes these sword films are like watching the 2 hr edit of the 10 hour Shogun mini-series. So much stuff jumps around, you think you were watching a trailer. Too many characters, too much stuff going on. But my beef isn't just on the convoluted plots, it's the fight scenes. Too much body doubling. The actors they have in these films aren't always great in the martial arts department. Ti Lung and handful of others are the exception, but there as so many wide shots where the characters are flipping and flopping and their faces are hidden, its way too obvious someone else is fighting for them.

KFS