Why Old School is better than Modern!

[vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

Another reason old school kung fu films are more appreciable is that the actors (leads) had far more charisma and presence. Do you realize how much would be missing from old school kung fu films without Ku Feng, Chen Kuan Tai, Ti Lung, David Chiang, Chang Yi, Chan Shen, Pai Piao, Fang Mien, Chiao Ming, Lily Ho, Ching Li, Lilly Li, Ivy Ling Po, Li Ching, Cheng Pei Pei, Meng Fei, Fu Sheng, Liu Chia Yung, Liu Chia Liang, Chiao Chuang, Tien Feng, Fan Mei Sheng, Kuo Chui, Lu Feng, Chiang Sheng, Sun Chien, Lo Mang, Kam Kong, Kam Ming (tommy lee), Liu Chia Jen (beardy), Chi Kuan Chun, Wang Kuan Hsiung (the champ), etc.?

All these films they've starred in would be like empty vessels. Something I used to always be reminded upon viewing these films was that these particular leads are carrying this film.

Also, Meng Fei stated the exact same reason old school kung fu films are better as Wilson Tong had, as did Liu Chia Yung in his interview on the King Boxer US release. You had to know kung fu (at least a little).

peringaten also nailed an important point. Todays films are about LOOKING exciting, with pretty looking actors who have no character or real depth that a viewer can feel they identify with, or sympathize with, etc.

Also there were truly beautiful sets prepared and built to lend an authentic feel to the story in the film.

Old school martial art films were done to be as authentic as possible to old world China, or Japan, fantastic or not. This question applies to both countries IMO. There's a lot more style and moral fiber in the old school films.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

a good martial artist does not mean you will be a good screen fighter (Carter Wong is an example)

You should see the 4 fight scenes he has with chan Siu Pang in Fatal Flying Guillotines. Chan Siu Pang got the best out of Carter. I don't remember if it was you, or another person that said carter does not look good doing intricate hand to hand choreography, but he puts in some good work in Fatal Flying Guillotines. Not one of the best at doing hand to hand, but he shows that he's competent in his fights with Chan Siu Pang.

I think one reason Carter gets knocked a lot is because his filmography is watered down by so many bad movies he was in. But you can't blame the guy for trying to make all the money he could. It was a tough business back then.

[edher_M.A.]

About Carter Wong. I was watching the "Way of The Black Dragon" DVD and in the commentaries Ron Van Clief was saying that at the time they were making that movie, Carter Wong was doing 2 additional films simultaneously. I mean, the man was working in 3 films at the same time. No wonder why he had so much crappy films. He was doing martial arts films as if its was porn.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

That was the bussiness back then, everybody was doing multiple movies at the same time!

Just a guy like Andy Lau did 17 movies in 1989, and he was the star of most of them! That is a serious workload!

[bobo]

what bothers me about new kung fu movies is these guys or gals are fighting and suddenly they are up in the sky fighting or standing out on the water surface on a lake or running and fighting on tree tops etc--i know some of the old school movies would get carried away but not to that extreme--and i never really cared for that stuff even from the old movies. not to mention you could tell in the old movies that it actually was the stars doing most of everything--sure there were risk but like they say it was part of the game. another thing i don't like is these characters that use a cloth belt or a sheet or something and suddenly its a mile long and spearlike--not to mention most new fu movies still like to put in that horrible kungfu comedy elements-all you have to do is look at the 70's shaw fu movies and compare them to a lot of their last 80's efforts and you can clearly see the difference and clearly see why SHAWS studio failed. i really don't see why modern studios can't duplicate early shaw storylines etc---but when you think about it its like hollywood trying to do remakes of old classics--usually they just can't recapture that old magic and they fail----i would the say the best effort was FIST OF LEGEND because at least the fights were much more real looking than most new fu movies--it reminded me of old school.

[falkor]

I like Fist Of Legend and Blade Of Fury, but nothing compares to Old School. Also, I liked a stunt during the end fight of Born To Defend where Jet Li "swings into action"! All they need to do is make a film about martial arts with training, set in a traditional environ, with a rare style such as Crane or Leopard. And I don't mean a short sequence like in Forbidden Kingdom, but a fighter whom specialises in the style throughout the film. Of course there is more to it than that, but then how many modern day films even follow that simple formula? I can think of NONE.

[bolofan]

I can see what this thread is getting at, in the older fu movies you can almost appreciate the amazing amount of work that went into choreographing some of the fights and performing some of the stunts, but I think to some degree it depends on the films in particular.

If you showed someone an old stinker like "Leapord Fist Ninja" then showed them a new epic like "The Rebel" straight after then most would say the modern film is better.

I think both periods are good in different ways, just seems that there was a harder work ethic back then.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Newer moviies involve many guns something i want to see less of.

True, but they are always struggling with the realism of guns in the modern world. Why would they be using MA, when they can just pick up a gun. I like when they blend it. Like in SPL, FLASHPOINT and so on. If you have a movie with cops, gangsters and criminals, it seems unlikely that they run around and take out their opponents with kung fu or kickboxing. Even if the number of firearms in HK is very limited. Because those people are probably the ONLY ones who has guns there.

[CrazyFrog]

Old vs. New- always a topic worth talking about in almost any format.

I like the old school because it isn't that far removed from when actual historic martial arts legends lived (Fok Yuen Gap or Morihei Ueshiba). Also, you can sense the vigor and newness that directors must have felt when they were forging relatively new ground in cinema. It's a palpable sense of creating one's own style right there up on the screen. Unfortunately or fortunately, today's movies must compare to those made in the past as they are often consciously or unconsciously using elements, themes, or styles from those of the old school. It didn't hurt that there were many trained in those arts available for work or that the studio system in Hong Kong pumped out these films assembly-style, with interchangeable actors, writers, directors, stuntpeople, etc. That M.O. doesn't work so well with today's lengthy production schedules, unionized actors/stuntmen, and perceived decline in audience taste for these movies.

I will say in defense of the New School is that some movies have taken from the past and built on it to produce some fine action or martial arts extravaganzas (Ong Bak, some of JC's 80's and 90's output, OUATIC series). And there are increasing signs of independent moviemakers putting out films that warrant our attention (like Curve, for one or Undisputed 2). Finally, other countries are keen on their own martial arts scenes, whether they be native-grown (Kinta, Merantau) or some hybrid (Kiltro).

I think someone nailed it earlier when it was mentioned that there was a $#!*load of people who already had the skills to do movies of this sort and became stuntmen or actors or even directors as the movie industry grew. That kind of talent pool simply doesn't exist in the same form anymore, at least not in any way we can perceive. For now.... .

[northern b]

You should see the 4 fight scenes he has with chan Siu Pang in Fatal Flying Guillotines. Chan Siu Pang got the best out of Carter. I don't remember if it was you, or another person that said carter does not look good doing intricate hand to hand choreography, but he puts in some good work in Fatal Flying Guillotines. Not one of the best at doing hand to hand, but he shows that he's competent in his fights with Chan Siu Pang.

I think one reason Carter gets knocked a lot is because his filmography is watered down by so many bad movies he was in. But you can't blame the guy for trying to make all the money he could. It was a tough business back then.

I based my views on Carter Wong from the movies I've seen Born Invincible and (to a lesser extent) 18 Bronzemen have always been lauded and when I first saw them was underwhelmed. He wasnt highly rated in the industry either hence the nickname of watermelon!

That said I agree that he was better in FFG (had to refresh my memory via youtube as I haven't seen the movie in years)

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Born Invincible I thought he was good as the unstoppable character that he played, but I can see why peope may not like it. But he has shown in many other movies that he can handle choreography very well, not just FFG and Born Invincible. Movies like Shaolin Iron Finger, Story of the Dragon, The Ming Patriots and The Magnificent to name a few. Like I've said before, I enjoy Carter Wong's performances in pretty much every movie I've seen him in, but those ones I listed have some of his very best fight scenes.

[The Dragon]

About Carter Wong ... He was doing martial arts films as if its was porn.

Classic.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

With all the terrible movies he was in, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did do a porn or two, just to make some extra cash. Seriously. Ron Van Clief makes him sound like one of the craziest people who ever lived in that Way of the Black Dragon commentary.

[edher_M.A.]

I liked that DVD. The movies weren't that good but the commentaries in both, during the movie & the behind scenes are priceless. Worth get that DVD just for the commentaries from Ron Van Clief.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

DEFINITELY. One of my favorites DVDs. Both the commentaries and the behind the scenes footage are indeed priceless. Those commentaries are some of the best I've ever heard. They talk about anything and everything (though unfortuately there's some stuff about James Brown that seems to be cut out). And we have all heard about those "challenges" that happened behind the scenes, and in this DVD you actually get to see one of those fights. A real steal too. I got at Best Buy for $9.99 I think when it first came out. And that reminds me of another good Carter Wong fight. Carter Wong vs Ron Van Clief!

[Morgoth Bauglir]

True, but they are always struggling with the realism of guns in the modern world. Why would they be using MA, when they can just pick up a gun. I like when they blend it. Like in SPL, FLASHPOINT and so on. If you have a movie with cops, gangsters and criminals, it seems unlikely that they run around and take out their opponents with kung fu or kickboxing. Even if the number of firearms in HK is very limited. Because those people are probably the ONLY ones who has guns there.

Hopefully people don't mind my going off topic again here. I like talking about weird stuff:p

Good points there TibetanWhiteCrane. Straight up gun movies, hand to hand, or a blend, it's all good to me. As long as it's entertaining and keeps me interested. anyways...

Has anyone seen Dragon Blood with John Liu? It tries to be a kung fu movie and a western movie, but fails miserably, at least in the gun area. John Liu is just too fast in his attack and all of the gun fighters can't seem to pull their guns out in time to shoot Liu before Liu kicks them repeatedly. Sometimes I like seeing cheesy stuff like this, but in this movie I found it very annoying:mad:

[gunswordfist]

Because:

1.They treat casting movies like they are casting for Pop Idol. I don't want to see a green haired guy with earrings who can't fight...fight.

2.They think putting too much CG in a kung fu movie is a serious thing.

3.Hollywood sucks

lol But seriously, I think HW deserves a lot of the blame. Too much great talent from China goes there but gets their work watered dwn. That's why Jet Li and JC's career's went downhill.

[MarsHarmony]

There are some exquisitely written commentary's here, It should pop up every now and then. Many many great descriptions on why we love our martial arts films so much.

I am truly spoiled by the old school cinema and in particular by the long, long, wide shots of beautifully choreographed fighters, especially from the Shaw Studio, who just full out go for it. (As has been well said before.)

The actors, like the characters, were driven to better themselves through studying martial arts, and applying that philosophy to at least certain parts of the film making process. The directors were well versed in their vast array of time pieces from their own histories and folklore. Most of them were directed with a loving hand, I point to Chang Cheh as an example for that, among several directors.

They may not be perfectly made films, but they are perfect little gems to be treasured.

[WhiteTiger1]

Please post your reasons why you think none of the martial arts movies to come out of Hong Kong in the last 10 years can match Old School KF classics such as 7 Grandmasters or The Victim.

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I totally agree!!

I think they are just running out of ideals!! Look how we make movies these days, everything being made these days are, remakes, comic book, same old plots, same old Love stories, same old slasher type movies. Come on were is the creativity?? I did like (Kung Fu Hustle) I thought it had an Old School feel to it in certain parts of the movie. Almost Venom like..It was a fun movie!!

[Omni Dragon]

"Why Old School is better than Modern!"

one true answer ACTION

[Cognoscente]

On 11/3/2008 at 3:26 PM, edher_M.A. said:

Carter Wong was doing 2 additional films simultaneously. I mean, the man was working in 3 films at the same time. No wonder why he had so much crappy films. He was doing martial arts films as if its was porn.

A lot of actors multitasked. They had to since the salaries weren't all that hot.

[edher_M.A.]

21 hours ago, Cognoscente said:

A lot of actors multitasked. They had to since the salaries weren't all that hot.

Oh i heard that the standard salary on Shaw Brothers was like 200 a month. I don't even want to believe it was 200 HK dollars.

[Cognoscente]

Run Run Shaw's greed killed his own empire. It wasn't necessary. He was already making a lot of money elsewhere.