Member The Dragon Posted October 4, 2008 Member Share Posted October 4, 2008 Look deeper, MGW... That's all I have to say. We can debate this and that but Chow is "involved" a great deal more than people know. Last time I checked adultery wasn't exclusive to gangsters Carrying on an affair with his top director's wife, and creating dissention between his first true star's marriage was just a couple of the things that pointed toward his sleaziness... Far many more. Where did you hear that? It's news to me. All we know is that Bruce CONSIDERED making a film for Shaws. Everything else is speculation and paranoid fan fantasy It had been stated by various stuntmen who worked for Lee on his projects that he wanted to take them to America with him. Read man! Phillip Ko, Sammo, Jackie, Yuen Biao, Yuen Wah, and Lam Ching Ying all have mentioned this information in various interviews. That is the bulk/soul of the stuntmen in HK at that time and outside of The Shaws. We're not talking about the various Taiwan talents that made their way to HK, shortly after Bruce's death. These men all went on to become groundbreakers, and Legends of the industry in their own right. Others gained opportunity because of the void left by Lee's demise. Chow had the rights to The Big Boss and Fist of Fury regardless if Bruce was alive or dead. The rights to Way would presumably have been negotiated over with Bruce selling them out to Chow - that's IF he decided to sever all ties. Game of Death was shot - as has been said - with Golden Harvest equipment and resources. Chow would've had claim to that footage also. Of course Bruce wanted to return to the US. That's no secret. Lee had no written contractual agreement with Chow over his "arrangement" regarding Concord. Linda found this out in probate court after her husband's death. In fact, Chow was under paying Lee for his efforts, and he was being paid in "installments" at a rate that he would have never received all of his proceeds with the way he was managing his finances. That's why the estate hates Chow so much to this day. Chow attemted to leave town right after Lee died... It's believed he was moving "assets" supposedly partnered with Lee. This was all settled 5yrs after Lee died. Raymond still came out on top, he was that smart. Wang Yu couldn't work in HK because he was contracted long-term to Shaws. They could've taken him to court if he shot anything in HK. I believe part of the agreement to disolve was he make movies exclusively in Taiwan. How long for- I don't know? But Wang desperately wanted away so he may have agreed to anything. Take him to court? That's not the HK way in circa 1970... How long? It meant, "you'll never work in this town again." -unless of course a blood-debt settlement is made. Wang would have loved to be in on a great deal of those productions happening in the mid-70's with all the independent film companies. There's no telling how much it cost him financially. He did have a tremendous following in Japan, even though he made all those anti-Japanese based films. You say you believe part of the agreement was to make films exclusively in Taiwan? I'm certain you'd take that as opposed to a pine box anyday right? But the idea that Chow would've killed him over it is wildly unfounded speculation. Lee needed to be laid waste for a number of business reasons. Revolutionizing the industry, and creating free agency was a huge one. Actors receiving benefits was another, wages, and so forth... not to mention his cockiness and intimidating his production staff, all the way down to the producer. Something had to be done. Make an example, by which all others will tow the line. You obviously have no understanding of face, and The Triad oath, of which a great deal of decisions are made. We are not talking about American/Western culture or custom... You're talking about a very ancient and to this day still- a private culture, with customs we could not totally understand, with a western outlook. Peace, The Dragon whips his tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Interesting post.... I still say it's paranoid fantasy though... If Bruce was murdered SOMEONE would have said something by now. You can't keep something like that secret forever. Bruce was a God in HK. If he was murdered there's no way it could've been kept under wraps for 35 years. You're points about disrespect and face are not unfounded... but I don't believe they led to Bruce's death... Of course I can't say for certain what happened I just don't believe the evidence supports the most extreme theories out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted October 5, 2008 Member Share Posted October 5, 2008 Interesting post.... All you need do is read the credible material available. I still say it's paranoid fantasy though... There's nothing paranoid or fantasy about underworld dealings-especially if you're based in another Country where you get 90% of most information second, if not third, hand. If Bruce was murdered SOMEONE would have said something by now. You can't keep something like that secret forever. You forgot my comment about towing the line. Once a prime example has been made, it wouldn't take much influence to get others to respect boundaries. Don't forget, everyone doesn't have the principles that drove Lee. He was an eccentric, totally dedicated to his own beliefs, and philosophies. He couldn't be bought. Very Principled man. It's not even an issue over there anymore. What's done is done. Just like Lee Harvey Oswald did not shoot JFK... That never stopped historians from teaching our children that's what happened. People now just go-"... oh yeah, the guy they said shot JFK..." Bruce was a God in HK. If he was murdered there's no way it could've been kept under wraps for 35 years. Was he? I thought just the latest, biggest, star. There were/are people who loathed the guy equally. He boasted, bragged, bullied, and embarrassed more than a few during that short time in HK. That doesn't earn you total popularity you know. If you ask me, Chow and Run Run are the Gods! They both are still around, and many of the ones who assisted their gains are not. Isn't that interesting? Shaw was once quoted regarding a certain popular star's in his studio suicide, " with fame and notoriety, people sometimes lose their balance (read focus), and here at Movietown, we offer as much assistance as possible to make the transition easier." Baloney! That was told to an American writer, researching a biography for Bruce Lee, back in "73. Spoken like a true DON. You're points about disrespect and face are not unfounded... but I don't believe they led to Bruce's death... Of course I can't say for certain what happened I just don't believe the evidence supports the most extreme theories out there... I've studied enough to know, there's a smoking gun that points in a certain direction, however, it really doesn't matter, I mean it's not going to change anything right? Jimmy Hoffa disappeared over 40yrs ago, and someone alive today, knows what happened to his body, but that doesn't mean they are ever going to tell us right? People are thirsting for truth... The glass which you chose to serve them is tainted, dirty. Because they thirst, they'll drink. It doesn't mean they will be nurished, nor quenched. Because the glass of truth was tainted over 30yrs ago, the people still are not quenched. :quiet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Raul4510 Posted October 6, 2008 Member Share Posted October 6, 2008 Bottom line Bruce was murdered by greedy people who had more to gain if he died than if he lived and went back to the United States an international sensation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted October 6, 2008 Member Share Posted October 6, 2008 Bottom line Bruce was murdered by greedy people who had more to gain if he died than if he lived and went back to the United States an international sensation! Until it's proved otherwise, the facts are Death By Misadventure (the verdict, not the doc). To claim otherwise is slander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member gravedigger666 Posted October 6, 2008 Member Share Posted October 6, 2008 Bruce was definitely death-touched or poisoned.How many a bit over 30ties you know have died natural death(with healthy lifestyle)?Bruce was in extremely good shape also.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted October 6, 2008 Member Share Posted October 6, 2008 Bruce was definitely death-touched or poisoned.How many a bit over 30ties you know have died natural death(with healthy lifestyle)?Bruce was in extremely good shape also.... Well, look at Heath Ledger. Sometimes a simple mistake in dosage is enough to kill someone, and that goes for legit drugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Raul4510 Posted October 6, 2008 Member Share Posted October 6, 2008 Well, look at Heath Ledger. Sometimes a simple mistake in dosage is enough to kill someone, and that goes for legit drugs agreed. Though there are many things about Bruce Lee's death that don't add up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ToothbrushFu Posted October 6, 2008 Member Share Posted October 6, 2008 Bruce was killed by aliens. They miniaturized a sabre-toothed tiger and sent it through a timewarp to get him. Although there is absolutely no evidence to support this it is FACT, not conjecture. Anyone who doubts this doesn't understand alien culture and the lengths they would go to to stop Bruce from conquering the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted October 6, 2008 Member Share Posted October 6, 2008 Bruce was killed by aliens. They miniaturized a sabre-toothed tiger and sent it through a timewarp to get him. Although there is absolutely no evidence to support this it is FACT, not conjecture. Anyone who doubts this doesn't understand alien culture and the lengths they would go to to stop Bruce from conquering the universe. Someone should stop your keyboard from ruining the forum thread universe. :l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted October 6, 2008 Member Share Posted October 6, 2008 Until there is concrete and factual evidence most people are not going to believe your theories Dragon so I wouldn't waist my time arguing about it. I respect your opinions and have a hard time believing myself that a single tablet of Equagesic caused his death when a few months prior he collasped with the same symptoms and he had not taken the drug. I can understand people thinking this is all paranoid conspiracy theories and to an extent some beliefs like him being given the death touch I can label this under as well but I do try to keep an open mind about things and believe it is possible that inept coroners/autopsyists could have come up with a misdiagnosis as to the actual cause of death. I'm also more inclined to believe that his death was caused accidently by a bad reaction to cannabis than Raymond intentionally trying to kill him, but it is possible triads could have got to it and laced it with something so who knows? After this amount of time though I don't think they will ever open the case again. I just hope Bruce is in a better place now in complete happiness and enlightenment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Raul4510 Posted October 7, 2008 Member Share Posted October 7, 2008 What people don't seem to understand is that Raymond Chow is the one who gained the most from Bruce Lee's death. It is all so obvious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted October 7, 2008 Member Share Posted October 7, 2008 What people don't seem to understand is that Raymond Chow is the one who gained the most from Bruce Lee's death. It is all so obvious! How exactly? Did he stand to inherit Bruce's estate? A large life insurance policiy ala The Chinese Stuntman? With Bruce dead, he can't come back to make films for Chow following a possible reconcilliation. Don't forget its was the Hui Brothers who kept GH going up to the late 70's, so the studio managed fine despite not having Bruce, dead or alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Raul4510 Posted October 7, 2008 Member Share Posted October 7, 2008 Everything with Chow is well documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted October 7, 2008 Member Share Posted October 7, 2008 Everything with Chow is well documented. Tell me where I can find these articles then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Raul4510 Posted October 7, 2008 Member Share Posted October 7, 2008 Tell me where I can find these articles then You are the one who keeps defending Mr.Chow so just do a web search I'm sure you will find the articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted October 7, 2008 Member Share Posted October 7, 2008 Until there is concrete and factual evidence most people are not going to believe your theories Dragon so I wouldn't waist my time arguing about it. It's not a waste of time to inform the uniformed my friend. I respect your opinions and have a hard time believing myself that a single tablet of Equagesic caused his death when a few months prior he collasped with the same symptoms and he had not taken the drug. The only common element here being CHOW, present, on both occasions. I can understand people thinking this is all paranoid conspiracy theories and to an extent some beliefs like him being given the death touch I can label this under as well but I do try to keep an open mind about things and believe it is possible that inept coroners/autopsyists could have come up with a misdiagnosis as to the actual cause of death. It's those superfluous theories that make a wash of the whole ordeal. They have no credence whatsoever. However, document can always be falsified. Wouldn't be the first time. I'm also more inclined to believe that his death was caused accidently by a bad reaction to cannabis than Raymond intentionally trying to kill him, but it is possible triads could have got to it and laced it with something so who knows? Raymond knows. People are more inclined to believe a huge lie moreso than a small one. That's a fact. Don't forget the huge life insurance policy GH took out on Lee that came into action on May 5, 1973. Lee's near fatal collapse was on May 10, 1973. :l!!?? Coincidence? probably not. After this amount of time though I don't think they will ever open the case again. I just hope Bruce is in a better place now in complete happiness and enlightenment. It won't be reopened. They murdered Brandon to insure themselves of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Bugger the facts let's just hang Raymond Chow I say. Round up the villagers... Pitchforks and flaming torches at the ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 http://www.geocities.com/jimmy900_uk/bruceleerumours.htm It was THE MAFIA! No wait.... It was A JEALOUS HUSBAND No wait... It was CHAN WAI-MAN No wait... It was JAPANESE KARATE EXPERTS No wait... HE'S STILL ALIVE AND SHARING AN APARTMENT WITH ELVIS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted October 7, 2008 Member Share Posted October 7, 2008 You are the one who keeps defending Mr.Chow so just do a web search I'm sure you will find the articles. I'm talking proper researched articles, not fanboy nonsense. Provide me with the links, or chapters if they are from books. Otherwise your argument is weak And if you think Chow's sneaky, may I introduce you to Harry Cohn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted October 7, 2008 Member Share Posted October 7, 2008 [quote HE'S STILL ALIVE AND SHARING AN APARTMENT WITH ELVIS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted October 8, 2008 Member Share Posted October 8, 2008 http://www.geocities.com/jimmy900_uk/bruceleerumours.htm It was THE MAFIA! No wait.... It was A JEALOUS HUSBAND No wait... It was CHAN WAI-MAN No wait... It was JAPANESE KARATE EXPERTS No wait... HE'S STILL ALIVE AND SHARING AN APARTMENT WITH ELVIS! None of that has anything to do with the point I'm making. In fact, it really contributes to more of what has you and others thinking the way you do.... Let's go back to 7/20/73, when it was first reported to the press Lee was dead. It was RC:mad: who stated Lee collasped at home while walking in his garden with his wife?! :l He later retracted that remark stating he was attempting to save Linda embarrassment! It was CHOW who reportedly drove with Lee to Betty Ting's flat. The dude's playing both sides against the middle! ********************************************************** Killer Meteor, there are countless books I have that give accounts of the last Months, weeks, days, and hours of Lee's life and they are too many to remember the chapters and so forth. However, two of the most recent readings are: The Tao of Bruce Lee, by Davis Miller, and... Unsettled Matters:The Mysterious Life and Death of Bruce Lee, by Tom Bleecker. These two books provide enough material where the reader, though informed of Lee's cannibis usage, is given enough facts that drugs were not the most significant problems He was dealing with at the time of his demise. Both are very good reads, and are not "fanboy" written material. Even though Miller says it was his first experience seeing Lee in ETD that changed his personal life, Lee's short comings as a human being helped put life in greater perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted October 8, 2008 Member Share Posted October 8, 2008 None of that has anything to do with the point I'm making. In fact, it really contributes to more of what has you and others thinking the way you do.... Let's go back to 7/20/73, when it was first reported to the press Lee was dead. It was RC:mad: who stated Lee collasped at home while walking in his garden with his wife?! :l He later retracted that remark stating he was attempting to save Linda embarrassment! It was CHOW who reportedly drove with Lee to Betty Ting's flat. The dude's playing both sides against the middle! ********************************************************** Killer Meteor, there are countless books I have that give accounts of the last Months, weeks, days, and hours of Lee's life and they are too many to remember the chapters and so forth. However, two of the most recent readings are: The Tao of Bruce Lee, by Davis Miller, and... Unsettled Matters:The Mysterious Life and Death of Bruce Lee, by Tom Bleecker. These two books provide enough material where the reader, though informed of Lee's cannibis usage, is given enough facts that drugs were not the most significant problems He was dealing with at the time of his demise. Both are very good reads, and are not "fanboy" written material. Even though Miller says it was his first experience seeing Lee in ETD that changed his personal life, Lee's short comings as a human being helped put life in greater perspective. I thought the Bleecker book was biased claptrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 It was RC:mad: who stated Lee collasped at home while walking in his garden with his wife?! :l He later retracted that remark stating he was attempting to save Linda embarrassment! That seems entirely reasonable. The man had just died and Chow thought he could spare Linda the embarassment of the press finding out Bruce was having an affair (and may have been making love with Ting Pei when he died). That's hardly suspicious in my book. It was CHOW who reportedly drove with Lee to Betty Ting's flat. The dude's playing both sides against the middle! Chow wasn't in marriage guideance. Many friends do things that they might not approve of. It wasn't Chow's business. Of course he could've been trying to protect Bruce's rep as much as his wife's. You're putting 2+2 together and coming up with 5. The events as recorded may not be exactly true (when is truth ever absolute?) but that doesn't spell M-U-R-D-E-R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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