Fist of Legend (DVD - Dragon Dynasty)

[Killer Meteor]

Killer Meteor- what is "pinkifying"? I don't think I've heard the term before.

It applies to some of the HKL and DD releases of Fortune Star HD transfers. FS made the transfers with reasonably well balanced colours and contrast, but HKL fiddled with them so that the whole colour of the print is really odd, with people's faces a weird pink like colour

[KLSADAKO]

I just bought and watched the dvd and I thought it was a decent release. Picture quality was good but I hated the opening credits and subtitles. The way they changed some of the dialogue scenes was silly. I think what I found most annoying was the sound effects which were out of sync during some of the fights. You heard the sound first and then they make contact. I have the vcd and MIHK video but I can't remember if they have the same problem during the fights. Extras were decent and the stunt school session was fun to watch.

[Guest Markgway]

Pinkifying? I believe I invented that term a few years back. It's now in the lexicon. I can die fulfilled.

It's not the lack of quality that bothers people - it's the lack of effort and skill that does. If DD did their best and the results were average no one would complain.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I just bought and watched the dvd and I thought it was a decent release. Picture quality was good but I hated the opening credits and subtitles. The way they changed some of the dialogue scenes was silly. I think what I found most annoying was the sound effects which were out of sync during some of the fights. You heard the sound first and then they make contact. I have the vcd and MIHK video but I can't remember if they have the same problem during the fights. Extras were decent and the stunt school session was fun to watch.

I agree. The sound effects on the canto are one of the few problems I had with this release. I've watched the movie a few times since I got the DD version, and every time I watch it I am always flipping between the 3 soundtracks. It is a lot of fun I think. They are a lot different in a lot of areas, as KF BOB mentioned before I believe.

[The Amazing Psycho Per]

There is nothing holding them back other than themselves

Couldn't be more right

But that would have cost money (as well as genuine skill) and they were more concerned with getting as much money as they can for little money invested as possible.

Well I don't see why it should come as a shock. It is a basic principle of capitalism. And until we live in an other economic/political system, it ain't gonna change.

All I'm saying is people seem to think it is just so simple to release a DVD, but it seems to me that isn't the case. With all the different people owning the rights to the movie, soundtrack, not to mention these movies are from different countries, it would seem quite the task to get everything together legally to release one DVD.

Couldn't be more wrong... Rights for old asian movies cannot be that expensive. There is not a different people owning the rights to the quality and shitty soundtrack. And for the subs they can wright their own... As far as pic quality goes, if HK Video as a good print, there is no reason why DD couldn't get a hold of it. Hk Video doesn't distribute here, so there are no rights issues.

With people continually buying their DVDs, you are sending them a message saying that this sort of lazy half assed work is okay.

That's what I was saying earlier... But you have to realise that only a handfull of people seems to be bother by those specific issues you are adressing Running Man. That doesn't mean that you are wrong, but why would they bother to correct future releases to please only a few. If you are so sure that it affects more people, why not sending them a petition with many names on it to get them to notice that the fans want better quality releases. Just a thought, but it would be more constructive then getting angry on a forum. Remember kids, one buy is one vote, so stop buying their releases and complaint afterwards...

[gmarceau]

I would prefer that if you want to make a judgment on me, please actually understand the whole issue instead of just picking one thing and exaggerating it. Lazy rewording of subtitles and then having the subs randomly turn into dubtitles for the rest of the movie is far from something minor. Calling me "subtitle crazy" because I brought this up is ironic since you were commenting that you want your martial arts movies to also have great stories but apparently don't care what the words are that come on screen.

And the other issues I mentioned are equally important, including the motion blur problem from Tai Chi Master that still exists on this DVD.

It's those things that bring the quality of this release down. That is not nit-picking. It's just that me and people like me don't happily accept any half ass lazy crap that a company throws out.

No, it isn't. Not that there is that much of a comparison in r1 land anyway, but even the old Dimension DVD had better colors.

I understand the WHOLE issue. I get it. Trust me.

Running Man, I've seen you go after subtitles to death for months. I understand that you feel this isn't doing a release justice. I completely argree. My advice would be to learn Cantonese or Mandarin, because it seems like these complaints are falling on deaf ears in this industry. The chinese make cheap movies with awesome action- it's a shame. I don't really need to savor the story on these, but you do, so I would seriously start learning the language. I can't believe you aren't blowing a gasket that until the mid-late 90's, these movies were dubbed in chinese- how low quality is that??!!?!?!?. Every release, EVERY SINGLE ONE, has subtitle issues. It doesn't matter what genre. We all get it, Dragon Dynasty knows, Bey's an idiot. Christ, these guys are putting in 3 hours of extras for this half ass flick. This isn't 20th Century Fox or Paramount, these guys are doing the best they can. It's not good enough.

Fist of Legend is not a great movie. It's an OKAY movie with really good fights. It's produced with the same production values of every movie he churned out in the early-mid 90s. I can't understand anyone watching that movie all the way through more than once. Crouching Tiger, Hero, maybe a couple Shaws like 36th chamber and Legendary Weapons, those are great stories.

Dragon Dynasty has to know by now that you're unhappy with their releases, so stop buying them- you're going to be disappointed. If we boycotted these guys and dropped their numbers, they'd either go out of business or start taking things seriously. Genre fans are catered to pretty well with dvd. Things are like a renaissance now compared to all the 4th gen copies we used to get. And things will continue to get better as blu ray becomes mainstream. If things were going to change with DD, it would have happened 2 years later. They don't want to spend the money/have the money/take the time/ give a s%#! about these issues. I'd put my faith in Tokyo Shock and BCI at this point.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Oh come on. Legendary weapons has a better story than FOL? I suppose it's just opinion, but I like the story in Fist of legend way more. I've watched it all the way through at least 20 times because I like the story, the characters, the fights, the scenes that lead up to the fights... A lot of stuff in there that I can watch over and over again. But there's not just a few kung fu movies that I can watch over and over again all the way through. There's hundreds. At least 200 I would say.

[Chinatown Kid]

I honestly watch these movies mainly for the MA fight action, not so much the story or great acting. If it does have the great story and acting it's definately a plus though, I just don't get hung up on weather the subs are 100% accurate or every single scene or running time is uncut but of course I would rather it would be if I had a choice. Now picture quality and a film being shown in it's original aspect ratio is of the upmost importence to me when viewing the action and I would be more critical in this aspect. Some people are really into the technical aspects of these films and want them to be perfect, I do believe everyone would love for every release to be perfect but it seems that's a rare thing in this world.

[GwaiLoMoFo]

If we boycotted these guys and dropped their numbers, they'd either go out of business or start taking things seriously.

They'd just stop releasing them. No way would they spend any more money on them. Especially the non-Jet/Jackie films.

[Guest Yi-Long]

The point is, that for a release that's been in development for so (very very)long, for one of the very best and most wanted asian movies out there, the release we have received isnt as good as it could or should have been.

- We got the HK cut, and not the better, longer cut.

- The messed up the subs, which is just ridiculous beyond belief, as that's pretty much the easiest thing to get right. So that's just sheer laziness.

- The videoquality isnt as good as it should be, because of the blurring.

- The ending is CUT, and the titlecards are no good I believe I read.

I'm sure I'm missing some things as well.

So, after all these years of waiting. And those have been long long years. After all those years, THIS is the best they can give us!?

I doubt it, but it IS the best they WILL give us, cause they know the fanboys and general public are gonna lap it up anyway.

"It's Jet's best movie ever: the kids won't care that it's cut, they wont care about the blurring, hell they dont even read the subs, etc etc".

They can be lazy with this release, and they have been, cause they pretty much own the worldwide rights to the movie anyway, and the fans really hardly have an alternative. Bastards. The exploitation of asian cinema fans continues.

[SamuraiDana]

Just got the Fist of Legend DVD.

3) The slow motion blur effect on the frames issue from Tai Chi Master is still present. It doesn't seem to be as consistent as Tai Chi Master, but it does indeed occur often. Interestingly, sometimes even at the end of the frames.

I picked this disc up on Wed. and I just did a spot check of it, going to several different chapter stops and letting scenes play out. I did this on two different players and two different TV sets (a 32-inch LCD and a 13-inch CRT). Again, as with Tai Chi Master, I don't see the blur effect you describe. It looked fine to me.

[Guest Yi-Long]

I picked this disc up on Wed. and I just did a spot check of it, going to several different chapter stops and letting scenes play out. I did this on two different players and two different TV sets (a 32-inch LCD and a 13-inch CRT). Again, as with Tai Chi Master, I don't see the blur effect you describe. It looked fine to me.

Maybe it depends on the player and.or the tv, as in progressive etc. or something like that.

Either way, if people dont have this problems with other movies but do have these problems with these 2 discs, than the problems is still DD.

[Karlos]

I was seriously thinking of getting this, even though I rarely double-dip nowadays.

I posted on here last year regarding the version I bought from UK2USA.com.

I was made to understand that it was taken from - legit or not, I'm not sure - the (pricey) French disc.

From reading all your opinions on the DD version, it sounds as if this version may actually be better, which is a dissapointment.

The constant heartache of the KF film fan goes on... :S

[The Running Man]

I picked this disc up on Wed. and I just did a spot check of it, going to several different chapter stops and letting scenes play out. I did this on two different players and two different TV sets (a 32-inch LCD and a 13-inch CRT). Again, as with Tai Chi Master, I don't see the blur effect you describe. It looked fine to me.

Maybe it depends on the player and.or the tv, as in progressive etc. or something like that.

The kind of TV has nothing to do with it. These problems are obvious even on a close to 20 year old TV set that I randomly popped it in the other day at a buddy's house.

SamuraiDana, I'll show you what it looks like. On the DD Fist of Legend go to exactly 18:08 on the running time. Jet trips a guy then kicks him and he slides back on the floor. The moment he starts flying back that entire part there the image starts stuttering. Right after that cut Jet snuffs a guy. That entire shot stutters. Right after that shot Jet turns around to pick a guy up to slam him and the first few frames of him turning around to that guy it is stuttering.

Fist of Legend's image problem isn't as consistent as Tai Chi Master, which happens almost throughout the entire film, but it does happen often.

[SamuraiDana]

SamuraiDana, I'll show you what it looks like. On the DD Fist of Legend go to exactly 18:08 on the running time. Jet trips a guy then kicks him and he slides back on the floor. The moment he starts flying back that entire part there the image starts stuttering. Right after that cut Jet snuffs a guy. That entire shot stutters. Right after that shot Jet turns around to pick a guy up to slam him and the first few frames of him turning around to that guy it is stuttering.

Fist of Legend's image problem isn't as consistent as Tai Chi Master, which happens almost throughout the entire film, but it does happen often.

Okay, I checked it out. I see what you mean. I can't tell if that was a deliberate effect, a problem (or choice?) in the original printing of the 35mm film print, or a problem with the transfer to disc. In any event, I compared the scene on the DD disc with the same scene on my old VHS tape (made from a laserdisc back in 1994 or 1995) and that "stuttering" or blurring appeared to be on the VHS as well. So it may not be a DD problem. Can anyone here identify a copy of FOL with that scene that doesn't have that blurring?

[Killer Meteor]

Okay, I checked it out. I see what you mean. I can't tell if that was a deliberate effect, a problem (or choice?) in the original printing of the 35mm film print, or a problem with the transfer to disc. In any event, I compared the scene on the DD disc with the same scene on my old VHS tape (made from a laserdisc back in 1994 or 1995) and that "stuttering" or blurring appeared to be on the VHS as well. So it may not be a DD problem. Can anyone here identify a copy of FOL with that scene that doesn't have that blurring?

Well there's the old Dimension DVD, the French DVD, the old UK tape...

Someone on another forum mentioned they'd been seeing this blurring on various presentations on Kung Fu HD. Could DD be using existing transfers?

[The Running Man]

That problem does not exist on any previous version. I own a VCD, VHS, VHS copy of the Chinese laserdisc, the Japanese DVD, the French DVD, and the Dimension DVD and this problem never shows up on any of those. It is no deliberate effect. It is an error caused by DD's handling.

That specific part I mentioned is not an isolated incident mind you. It happens all throughout the DVD and again, the DD disc is the first time it ever appeared.

The same thing with Tai Chi Master. And that's even worse as it occurs almost after every single shot throughout the DD DVD.

[Mark Pollard]

I was beginning to worry that I was missing something obvious in my observation of DD's discs but after checking on the specific problem TRM cited for SamuraiDana I cannot see it. I don't see this image stutter, nor did I see any noticeable problems with THE TAI-CHI MASTER. Maybe my eyes have suddenly gone bad or my DVD-ROM player is magical. Unfortunately, I cannot report on or critique something I cannot perceive.

Stuttering aside, I do see a blur effect when you go frame by frame but that is extremely common. Something to consider is that these scenes were not shot at normal frame rates and the quality of cameras may have not been up to the task of catching every frame with optimal clarity. On top of that, movies on DVD are compressed using digital codecs that further reduce the amount of detail during fast-moving scenes that is usually less noticeable when played back at normal speeds.

I respect everyone's perception of the DVD quality but I do not agree that it's as big of an issue as some are claiming. Until films are presented completely uncompressed on multi-terabyte media capable of housing every byte of data from an analog film negative, expectations should be checked.

[The Running Man]

Mark,

Check your Fist of Legend DVD with the specific time I gave SamuraiDana, then report back.

And no, the stuttering isn't noticeable only when you slow mo it. In fact, I have yet to do that and I noticed the problem with Tai Chi Master as soon as I was watching a few minutes of the DD DVD. After I reported this, others have noticed it as well. It's hardly subtle. Whatever you notice by slow moing is not the issue at hand here, because what I am stating is not common at all.

I also have to stress that this is not the first time I have seen either of these movies, Mark. None of the editions and versions I have seen Tai Chi Master and Fist of Legend ever have had this. I would have noticed it even if I've never seen the movies before but for the simple fact that I did it's even more blatantly obvious. This has nothing to do with anything with how these movies were filmed. This is, plain and simple, a problem DD caused with their handling. And it is nothing minor.

[Mark Pollard]

I did check the disc at the point you suggested, about a dozen times. I see nothing unusual. I'm beginning to wonder if this is like a stereogram. I always had a hard time finding the hidden picture in those things.

[The Running Man]

Check the same exact spot against other editions your own. Maybe that will help you.

[Chinatown Kid]

Shortcomings of the disc aside, i'm glad I got this version to add to my collection and there's no doubt the fight scenes in this film rocked! Jet's never looked better imo.

[BLfan]

Watched this over the weekend and I only noticed a slight blurring effect during the dojo scene. The subtitles are incorrect as mentioned many times but I hate the fact that DD do not translate the english dialogue (Hong Kong Legends did the same). They probably end up translating the cantonese version of the english dialogue.

[Yuen WTF]

That problem does not exist on any previous version. I own a VCD, VHS, VHS copy of the Chinese laserdisc, the Japanese DVD, the French DVD, and the Dimension DVD and this problem never shows up on any of those. It is no deliberate effect. It is an error caused by DD's handling.

That specific part I mentioned is not an isolated incident mind you. It happens all throughout the DVD and again, the DD disc is the first time it ever appeared.

The same thing with Tai Chi Master. And that's even worse as it occurs almost after every single shot throughout the DD DVD.

My UK Blu-ray of Fist of Legend (without the US dubtitles) and the US Blu-ray of Tai Chi Master both feature this annoying problem. Trust me people, it's there, even if you can't see it.