Member teako170 Posted April 19, 2008 Member Share Posted April 19, 2008 Last year, someone mentioned to me that gold would go over $1000/oz. It was around $650 at the time but I didn't buy any. It eventually did hit $1000 --- though currently on the decline. Why-oh-why didn't I buy...? So anyway, tonight, I've decided to watch the Celestial version of KWTGA. KWTGA has always been one of those special V-flix because of its preposterous dubbing and goofiness. Players would enter and exit a scene as if they were on a stage. The lead(s) wouldn't break the fourth wall but still talk to their audience. It was silly and special yet.... I've been putting off watching the remaster only because... I didn't want to ruin that old school experience that one can only get from a grainy dub. Anyone know what I mean? -- PS: A couple scans. I have a half dozen lobbies of this as well. If anyone wants, I'll scan and post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted April 19, 2008 Member Share Posted April 19, 2008 This is one of my favorite Venom films as well, a great campy/comic book atmosphere and great characters, especially Lo Mang and Kuo Chui's roles. I prefer the english dub as well because that's what I grew up watching on Black Belt Theatre. Also liked that they let Sun Chien bust out his kicks in the finale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venoms5 Posted April 20, 2008 Member Share Posted April 20, 2008 I was never a fan of this movie and couldn't understand why people like it so much (I think I do now). Seeing the Celestial restoration was a vast improvement but the film is still mediocre at best, IMO. I most definitely prefer the sub over the dub any day of the week (the dubs seriously compromise these movies in my opinion). It does have a nice comic book feel and lots of colorful costumes and gore and the Chiang Sheng/Lu Feng fight was the highlight for me. I did enjoy Wei Pai's character but not because of the actor but because it seemed Chang Cheh was parodying his swordsmen from his past films. A lot Cheh's later movies have that "stage play" feel about with actors entering and exiting on the fly. I assumed it was quicker and easier to do so considering his budgets and use of the bigger Shaw Stages had dwindled by this point. Nice pics, T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cesare Posted April 20, 2008 Member Share Posted April 20, 2008 I prefer the chinese version, of course. English dubs simply suck. Dubs in general are evil, but eng. dubs of kung-fu classics are...kind of infernal. I must confess though, that the english dub of this particular film is the only one that I grew more or less fond of, since it adds certain pythonesque quality to the film. I missed those "nonsense" lines a little, I've got to admit that. But I still like the original better. Somehow the whole movie looks and sounds a little more dignified while retaining most of that charming comic-bookish goofiness... Great scans, by the way... Thanks for those, teako170. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member teako170 Posted April 20, 2008 Author Member Share Posted April 20, 2008 As I anticipated, the comic book feel was not there. Like many, I grew up on dubs but subs have won me over as they generate a more authentic feel however - certain films like KWTGA don't seem right without those awkward campy dubs. I checked my VHS copy. Its either Dutch or German print, widescreen. Some of the exposition at the beginning of the film was cut out. The other thing I like about the tape was that the artificial Shaw sets weren't as distinct as in the IVL disc. For me this helped maintain that surreal fuzziness of this cartoonesque world that these characters lived on. What I never understood is why CC shot those few scenes outside. I love LIFE GAMBLE because it allows us to see the Venoms function in the real world as opposed to the Shaw back lot. BUT in KWTGA, these outdoor shots seem out of place. Great campy flick. Haven't watched in a few years. Good to see LM make it to the end... Oops! Forgot about that "backstabbing" bitch. KC's last line in the dub is perfect ... "I'm gonna go get drunk." The subs didn't quite capture it - though maybe the spoken word did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member gravedigger666 Posted April 20, 2008 Member Share Posted April 20, 2008 I`ve yet to watch IVL release but this is one of rare dubs I like. "Don`t worry.These men are all going to die". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member oldeschool17 Posted April 20, 2008 Member Share Posted April 20, 2008 very camp. Lu Feng and Lo Meng were the best in this movie. Anybody notice the wire when Wang Lung Wei sets off that "signal"? Thats what you get for sh ooting an "outside" shot, inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted April 21, 2008 Member Share Posted April 21, 2008 I guess it's the nostalgia factor that makes me like the oldschool dubs, it's like hearing old friends talking since I grew up watching them and it's ingrained in my memory. It's just not the same hearing it in Mandarin, which I don't understand a word of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member vonhumboldtfleisher Posted April 21, 2008 Member Share Posted April 21, 2008 I haven't seen the remastered version of this yet, and I don't think I'll ever bother 'upgrading' from my WS English dub from the German VHS. I like it a lot, but I don't think the preposterous nature of the movie can really survive having all its dialogue played out serious-sounding Mandarin. Lovely scans, by the way - thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member oldeschool17 Posted April 21, 2008 Member Share Posted April 21, 2008 I haven't seen the remastered version of this yet, and I don't think I'll ever bother 'upgrading' from my WS English dub from the German VHS. I like it a lot, but I don't think the preposterous nature of the movie can really survive having all its dialogue played out serious-sounding Mandarin. Lovely scans, by the way - thanks. The only thing the IVL version will give you an advantage to your old vhs version is better picture. Im not sure what was on the german vhs but if its cut, im assuming its cut at the beginning(where they give a more info on the gang) and maybe a few minor scenes in the middle. I dont think the subs make the movie that any better than the version with the dub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venoms5 Posted April 21, 2008 Member Share Posted April 21, 2008 Like most all of these movies, the original language is a vast improvement for me. KWTGA is one of them. Still a lower tier Venom flick, IMO but much improved in its original language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member vonhumboldtfleisher Posted April 21, 2008 Member Share Posted April 21, 2008 The German VHS isn't cut like the Brentwood version, and has all that stuff where they bring in the gold at the start - I posted screencaps on the old forum. I think Mandarin works well for period movies, particularly Chu Yuan/Ku Lung type movies where everyone's dressed in immaculate robes and stand on arched bridges quoting poems about cherry blossoms. For contemporary movies, and for movies like, say, BOXER FROM SHANTUNG or CHINATOWN KID, it just sounds too fancy-shcmancy compared to Cantonese (or, for that matter, a good English dub) - it's like watching a Fred Wiliamson film in French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member oldeschool17 Posted April 21, 2008 Member Share Posted April 21, 2008 Dont get me wrong, i appreciate subs alot more these days than I have in the past. If your comfortable with your vhs german print, i really dont see the point of getting the IVL version cause the subs dont make the movie that much better, save maybe a better translation of whats going on. Unless of course, you would want to sync your vhs english dub to the ivl copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member teako170 Posted April 21, 2008 Author Member Share Posted April 21, 2008 I know this subject is taboo to some but has a jumper version of this flick been done? Seems like you would get the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member oldeschool17 Posted April 21, 2008 Member Share Posted April 21, 2008 I know this subject is taboo to some but has a jumper version of this flick been done? Seems like you would get the best of both worlds. im gonna say that it has. If you check hkflix, you can see why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted April 21, 2008 Member Share Posted April 21, 2008 I think Mandarin works well for period movies, particularly Chu Yuan/Ku Lung type movies where everyone's dressed in immaculate robes and stand on arched bridges quoting poems about cherry blossoms. For contemporary movies, and for movies like, say, BOXER FROM SHANTUNG or CHINATOWN KID, it just sounds too fancy-shcmancy compared to Cantonese (or, for that matter, a good English dub) - it's like watching a Fred Wiliamson film in French. Very true.... I feel the same way! And KC's "im gonna go get drunk" is the best exit line in any movie, ever made! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member David Rees Posted April 21, 2008 Member Share Posted April 21, 2008 Original language every time for me...is there a U.S. release of this on the cards as its one i have not picked up from Hong Kong Yet and i know there going OOP. Official Shaw DVD'S All Region, FROM ONLY $1.89! LIMITED stock...CLICK HERE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member gfanikf Posted April 21, 2008 Member Share Posted April 21, 2008 Very true.... I feel the same way! And KC's "im gonna go get drunk" is the best exit line in any movie, ever made! Same. I can understand the Mandarin for the...bah screw it I just like dubs from the period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted April 22, 2008 Member Share Posted April 22, 2008 Some of the accents and the way they say words on the english dubs can be quite funny and endearing too. I like in Chinatown Kid when the two HK cops shake Fu Sheng down and search him in which they find cocaine that Wang Lung wei planted on him. they say "What's this, icing sugar? Fu says "I don't know, never saw it before". Then the cop says " And I suppose you didn't know it was Cuhcaine?" The way he says Cocaine cracks me up every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted April 23, 2008 Member Share Posted April 23, 2008 I enjoy watching these films in their original language. After seeing them in dubbs for so many years, it's a refreshing change of pace. I'm not saying which is best, simply it's nice to see what was actually being expressed as opposed to what's being interpreted. There's humor both ways at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member vonhumboldtfleisher Posted April 23, 2008 Member Share Posted April 23, 2008 I think the phrase 'original language' is a bit misleading considering that for a long time (until the Hui Brothers made Cantonese language films popular again) the vast majority of HK films were dubbed into Mandarin regardless of what language the film was written and performed in. One reason that so many HK film prints have burned-in subtitles is that the audience generally couldn't understand Mandarin any better than you or I could. So I think there's a kind of artificiality to the language, which is fine if it's used a period piece, or in a film set in the mythical world of jiang hu, but if the film's set on the crowded, dusty streets of Hong Kong, it can sometimes seem inappropriate. Having said that, in my case it's more of a personal feeling or preference than a logical argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted April 24, 2008 Member Share Posted April 24, 2008 I love this movie and actually like the old dub, it does just seem to fit in with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Yu_Xihong Posted April 25, 2008 Member Share Posted April 25, 2008 I always thought Golden Arms sounded like a robot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venomchamber Posted April 25, 2008 Member Share Posted April 25, 2008 the vast majority of HK films were dubbed into Mandarin regardless of what language the film was written and performed in. Exactly. Remember, all Shaw films were shot silent, and dubbed later for the appropriate markets: Cantonese, Mandarin, English, French & German were the top 5. What's more, the Mandarin voices weren't the actors on screen! For instance, most of them including the Liu Brothers, are fluent in Cantonese, as is 'Golden Arm' himself, Lo Mang among many others. (*Even Ti Lung himself has stated on a video interview (in English!) that at the time he didn't speak Mandarin very well. Today, he is fluent in not only Cantonese and Mandarin, but English and French as well, so he will have no problem speaking to fans during the European tour!) Even the Huangmei Operas were dubbed by professional singers. According to an Ivy Ling Po interview, that wasn't her singing voice in the majority of her films, but the EMI vocal artist (whose name ecsapes me at the moment) heard on the soundtrack albums. Personally, I grew-up watching 'em dubbed at the grindhouses of 42 Street and on TV nearly 30 years ago, so that holds a nostalgia factor for me and I prefered them that way. (I didn't know any Chinese and grew frustrated trying to catch-up with the subtitles that tended to get cut-off or were too low.) Now, once I was bitten by the 'collector bug' in the 1980s and tracked down all the "rare" films (like House Of Traps and Legend Of The Fox), I became used to Mandarin and in fact prefer it over Cantonese. (Initially, as a youth, I humbly distinguished them as Mandarin sounding ascertive & harsh, befitting of a Kung-Fu movie, while Cantonese sounded like a whiney mouthful of gumbo, especially in Jackie Chan's movies!) Of course nowadays I know better and can distinguish and identify any Asian language, which amazes my supervisors at work. So, I enjoy them any way I can, as long as the print is of good quality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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