Intimate Confessions of a Chinese Courtesan (DVD - Image)

[venoms5]

Hell, yeah! I would have been pissed if after all the work I did finding the damn thing along with Seven if it wasn't used.

Why should you need to find a dub for Celestial when the Shaw's should still have all these in their vaults? Since Celestial has access to all things Shaw in relation to THEIR MOVIES, I'm sure finding if something was dubbed or not shouldn't be all that difficult. I think just about everything was dubbed anyways for possible sales. A lot of these dubbed Shaw's surface in Third World countries on reels (FRIENDS being a recent example). Anybody can look up a film at the Library of Congress.

[bobo]

as long as we are talking existing dubs--i seem to recall LINN saying he pointed image in the direction of the dub for HUMAN LANTERNS as well--but he had doubts as to whether they would pursue it. i for one believe that celestial has access to all things shaw. includeing ALL the dubs.

[gfanikf]

Why should you need to find a dub for Celestial when the Shaw's should still have all these in their vaults? Since Celestial has access to all things Shaw in relation to THEIR MOVIES, I'm sure finding if something was dubbed or not shouldn't be all that difficult. I think just about everything was dubbed anyways for possible sales. A lot of these dubbed Shaw's surface in Third World countries on reels (FRIENDS being a recent example). Anybody can look up a film at the Library of Congress.

Yes, BUT Celestial is a bunch of boobs and the collection at the time was all over the place. They had no idea what they got in relation to English Language materials. Celestial would have just told Image "No we don't have it". Same with Have Sword Will Travel until they found it while finally cataloging the dubs and cleaning them up for English language markets (tv, dvd, etc), they would not know where it was if they ever thought they had it. At that point in time Celestial couldn't find anything!

Whats this about Friends?

[oldeschool17]

The dub in the LOCongress holdings which allowed Image to help Celestial find it in their own archive.

Actually one cool thing I knew from Linn is that Brave Archer 4 WAS dubbed and does exist somewhere.

In all due respect, you are taking credit where credit isnt due. Linn even told you that Celestial has the dubs all long it just wasnt a priority until they started picking up distro's in the US. It was just poor negotiating on IMAGE's part to not pick up all of the dubs for their releases amongst other contract stipulations that they didnt work out.

[gfanikf]

In all due respect, you are taking credit where credit isnt due. Linn even told you that Celestial has the dubs all long it just wasnt a priority until they started picking up distro's in the US. It was just poor negotiating on IMAGE's part to not pick up all of the dubs for their releases amongst other contract stipulations that they didnt work out.

No, it wasn't. Celestial had no idea they had it. It had nothing to do with bad negotiation, they were able to use the archive info from the LOC to locate the dub in their own archive. Linn never said they had all the dubs at any point. It had nothing to do with contract negotiations. Hell, before I came across it in the LOC Linn didn't even think ICOC was ever dubbed.

[oldeschool17]

No, it wasn't. Celestial had no idea they had it. It had nothing to do with bad negotiation, they were able to use the archive info from the LOC to locate the dub in their own archive. Linn never said they had all the dubs at any point. It had nothing to do with contract negotiations. Hell, before I came across it in the LOC Linn didn't even think ICOC was ever dubbed.

Did you personally notify IMAGE/Celestial of said dubs that you saw on LOC? Let me expand on that. By you saying you found dubbed shaw releases at LOC, how does that help Celestial in locating the dubs? Did you reference a serial # to Celestial/IMAGE that would match to their records?

[gfanikf]

Did you personally notify IMAGE/Celestial of said dubs that you saw on LOC? Let me expand on that. By you saying you found dubbed shaw releases at LOC, how does that help Celestial in locating the dubs? Did you reference a serial # to Celestial/IMAGE that would match to their records?

Yes it did via numbers in the registration data and Yes I did inform them via Linn.

[oldeschool17]

Yes it did via numbers in the registration data and Yes I did inform them via Linn.

Last question(s). When did you pass on this info to Linn? Last year, the year before? Im curious so that we can see what kind of timeline was involved between your discovery and when linn notified Image/Celestial.

So let me ask you for clarification again. You say that Celestial had no idea that they had this dub. So are you saying they do not have a catalogue system for their dubs that references them by Title? They can only reference based on serial #'s/sku's or in this case, registration data?

[gfanikf]

Last question(s). When did you pass on this info to Linn? Last year, the year before? Im curious so that we can see what kind of timeline was involved between your discovery and when linn notified Image/Celestial.

So let me ask you for clarification again. You say that Celestial had no idea that they had this dub. So are you saying they do not have a catalogue system for their dubs that references them by Title? They can only reference based on serial #'s/sku's or in this case, registration data?

Bingo! Their system until recently was really screwed up or just non-existent.

In regards to when, it should still be in the official dub thread.

2006.09.25, 02:24 PM

Not sure where the original thread is but Kwoki Choi linked to it around that time

http://kungfucinema.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3001&page=4

It was in Sept of 06 when I posted about it with Seven and Linn sent it to Image.

Hey, I'm just happy it wound up on the DVD.

I can't wait to hear the dub on Opium and the Kung Fu Master

[venoms5]

Whats this about Friends?

I know someone who has dubs for several Shaw movies on reels, FRIENDS is one of them.

I'm guessing here but I'd say everything was dubbed for potential sales most especially in Third World countries where they couldn't afford bigger movies, Chinese films were incredibly cheap and easy to buy to satisfy distributors for the product.

Considering a number of the Wu Xia swordplay films from Chu Yuan have surfaced dubbed in English, movies that do not translate well to audiences outside of Asia, then it's quite possible everything was dubbed into English.

The Shaw's should have had all their various release prints in their vaults when Celestial acquired the catalog. Dragon Dynasty was the first to get a number of titles so you're saying they didn't bother to request for English language versions? Considering they are an AMERICAN company, why would DD or Celestial for that matter not be interested in the demographics for the nationality purchasing their acquisitions?

Granted, taking into consideration these films weren't kept in the best conditions so maybe a number of those English language versions don't exist anymore but I'd bet that they were there at one time. Plus, those separate tracks cost extra. You don't just get Mandarin, Cantonese and or English for the price of one.

Linn said in one of those posts, as he was asked the question as to why DD and MB were able to get the dubbed soundtracks and not Image for titles that clearly have them, his response was that DD and MB were better at negotiating with Celestial and Image were not.

By saying "Celestial are a bunch of boobs", and "they don't know what they have" is a bit far fetched and is hardly support for your "theory" that you are responsible for dubs being on Shaw Brothers DVD's in the United States.

I can't picture a company paying millions for a movie library and not cataloging what they have. However, considering these movies were being released for the ASIAN MARKET (again, that little '3' inside the globe on the back of the box) it's completely understandable that they would be less interested in markets outside of Asia......but they weren't. In the beginning it was a "buy them all or nothing" and when no one was biting outside of Asia they began selling them in packages. (Refer to paragraph above again).

[gfanikf]

Look I'm going on with what I've heard from several people who had been at the Shaws library. Celestial did catalog their Chinese materials, the better negotiation skills for DD was because they were with Disney and could ask for anything. MB was after Celestial took the stick up out of their ass. Image got them during a time where the stick was firmly up Celestials ass and they had not started cataloging and re-mastering them

I only said I was responsible for the dub for Deadly Breaking Sword and ICOC, I never claimed any other dub was because of me. Hell, in Linn's Liner notes for ICOC (before Image decided to stop doing them) he mentions Paul and me by name. I heard him read an excerpt from it to me once.

EDIT: I think I should add that I didn't mean to imply I opened up all of the dubs or something, just these two. I can see why that may look a bit silly otherwise. I also didn't mean to get jumpy on anyone.

[bobo]

i,d like to add something if i may. i beleived all along that celestial had access to all the english dubs . i,m pretty sure that all of the DRAGON DYNASTY--MEDIA BLASTER and BCI shaws are suposed to becoming with the english dubs. as for IMAGE the last time i had an email conver with them they told me that from now on they would make every effort to get the dubs for all future releases. they are including the dub for INTIMATE CONFESSIONS and KISS OF DEATH .as for HUMAN LANTERNS and BAT WITHOUT WINGS we,ll just have to wait and see because for some reason they seem to skip info on their website. i,m trying to convince them to rerelease HAVE SWORD WILL TRAVEL with the dubs but so far no luck. anyway from here on in theres no excuse for any of these companies not to pursue the dubbed versions. just as a side note some of the other dubs found at the LOC were-THE PIRATE--THUNDERBOLT FIST--GOLDEN SWALLOW--VALLEY OF THE FANGS--FIST OF VENGEANCE--14 AMAZONS--NAVAL COMMANDOS--DELIGHTFUL FOREST--BAMBOO HOUSE OF DOLLS--SPIRITUAL BOXER and DEADLY BREAKING SWORD. its up to us fans to keep the pressure on these companies to get the dubs. quick question for gfanikf--any word yet on the BCI releases ? thanks

[oldeschool17]

i,d like to add something if i may. i beleived all along that celestial had access to all the english dubs . i,m pretty sure that all of the DRAGON DYNASTY--MEDIA BLASTER and BCI shaws are suposed to becoming with the english dubs. as for IMAGE the last time i had an email conver with them they told me that from now on they would make every effort to get the dubs for all future releases. they are including the dub for INTIMATE CONFESSIONS and KISS OF DEATH .as for HUMAN LANTERNS and BAT WITHOUT WINGS we,ll just have to wait and see because for some reason they seem to skip info on their website. i,m trying to convince them to rerelease HAVE SWORD WILL TRAVEL with the dubs but so far no luck. anyway from here on in theres no excuse for any of these companies not to pursue the dubbed versions. just as a side note some of the other dubs found at the LOC were-THE PIRATE--THUNDERBOLT FIST--GOLDEN SWALLOW--VALLEY OF THE FANGS--FIST OF VENGEANCE--14 AMAZONS--NAVAL COMMANDOS--DELIGHTFUL FOREST--BAMBOO HOUSE OF DOLLS--SPIRITUAL BOXER and DEADLY BREAKING SWORD. its up to us fans to keep the pressure on these companies to get the dubs. quick question for gfanikf--any word yet on the BCI releases ? thanks

Bobo, you have to realize with Have Sword Will Travel, that it would cost extra for them to acquire the dub and not to mention the manufacturing cost to re-release it. I highly doubt they made much money of the existing release let alone break even.

[oldeschool17]

Look I'm going on with what I've heard from several people who had been at the Shaws library. Celestial did catalog their Chinese materials, the better negotiation skills for DD was because they were with Disney and could ask for anything. MB was after Celestial took the stick up out of their ass. Image got them during a time where the stick was firmly up Celestials ass and they had not started cataloging and re-mastering them

I only said I was responsible for the dub for Deadly Breaking Sword and ICOC, I never claimed any other dub was because of me. Hell, in Linn's Liner notes for ICOC (before Image decided to stop doing them) he mentions Paul and me by name. I heard him read an excerpt from it to me once.

EDIT: I think I should add that I didn't mean to imply I opened up all of the dubs or something, just these two. I can see why that may look a bit silly otherwise. I also didn't mean to get jumpy on anyone.

I think we're at a stalemate on this matter and I apologize for bring the tone down in this thread. We see eye to eye on some points and disagree on others. Let's just leave it at that.

[gfanikf]

I think we're at a stalemate on this matter and I apologize for bring the tone down in this thread. We see eye to eye on some points and disagree on others. Let's just leave it at that.

I agree, besides it takes time away from discussing important things like Ninjas and the sort

[gfanikf]

quick question for gfanikf--any word yet on the BCI releases ? thanks

Sorry Bobo none at the moment, things are moving along though

[venomchamber]

Considering a number of the Wu Xia swordplay films from Chu Yuan have surfaced dubbed in English, movies that do not translate well to audiences outside of Asia, then it's quite possible everything was dubbed into English.

...so hopefully Images's BAT WITHOUT WINGS will feature the North American debut of an English dub!

Since last year's releases, Image seems to have "improved their image" so to speak and have released 3 consecutive rarities with English dubs (DEADLY BREAKING SWORD, THE MAGIC BLADE, INTIMATE CONFESSIONS OF A CHINESE COURTESAN), and the fact many can't find these at retail shows business must be brisk!

For those searching the NYC area, the Best Buy (are they the only ones that stock these things?) on Broadway/Houston Street was sold-out of ICOACC, and the one on Bay Parkway in Brooklyn was sold-out of both MB and ICOACC, while the one located on West 23rd Street Mid-town still had a couple copies left of both titles as well as the non-dubbed SHAOLIN INTRUDERS. (I guess those 9 to 5 executive-types don't really fo for SB films!) lol

Kim's Video Underground on St. Mark's Place in the Village will have 'em, but their prices tend to be around $5 bucks higher on these discs.

Hope this info is useful.

[magicpoe]

FYI for those who pre-ordered this title from deepdiscount. Yours should be on the way soon.

[Tosh]

Thats some dedication for a movie! I guess im just lucky to get them on time and in stock( i think they only had 2 copies of this when I was there). So maybe tosh will buy the other one

Tagged, but where did you find Heroes Two?

[oldeschool17]

Tagged, but where did you find Heroes Two?

Heroes Two hasnt popped up at Best Buy yet, last I checked, which was I believe this past Saturday or Sunday. I even called FYE and they dont have it and i was at circuit city and they dont have it.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Tagged, but where did you find Heroes Two?

the Suncoast in my area got it in today. I would give your local Suncoast/FYE a call to see if they have it.

[bravearcher101]

The Image print of Intimate Confessions Of A Chinese Courtesan is a very good one, it also has a good english dub

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I agree. great sounding dub, and great pic quality. I couldn't be happier.

[dewolfeaddict]

Hey folks, this is "sevenhooks" here.

Just wanted to quickly chime in w/regards to the whole LOC/dubbing issue.

It is true that gfanikf and myself (but gfanikf especially) spent many hours combing through the LOC site to track down titles that had been cataloged with the dubs.

I'd say with almost 100% certainty that both DEADLY BREAKING SWORD and ICOCC would've been released on DVD WITHOUT the english dubs were it not for our collaborative efforts.

And yes, Linn took our information and presented it to Image and the rest is history.

And yes, the horrible cataloging (at least at the time) of Celestial's archive in addition to the general lack of film knowledge among their staff have definitely contributed to the lack of dubs up to this point.

Since the sale of certain titles to British satellite tv, the situation has seemingly gotten better.

(although I still wouldn't hold my breath regarding any future Image titles containing dubs)

Also, it is true that Dragon Dynasty had originally not even BOTHERED to acquire the dubs at first!

The story went that either Celestial was asking for too much money and/or DD wanted to actually RE-DUB the films in order to "update" them!

Whatever the case was, it took a couple of years before ANY DD Shaw titles surfaced, and when they finally did, the OG dubs were thankfully included.

It's wise to note that in the interim, an absolute uproar went out over the internet demanding that DD re-work their contract w/Celestial to include the dubs.

How much of that uproar actually had to do with the proper releases finally coming to light is a mystery.

[gfanikf]

Thanks 7

Just wanted to add that I picked this up with DBS at Best Buy today (no Heroes Two). I have to say ICOCC sounds fairly mint. The transfer is an IVL one I think (smeary and soft), but still a gorgeous print.