Most over-rated kung fu actor

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Alright, I'll give you an internet fist bump.

[Chinatown Kid]

Even though I like the guy, Chen Sing looks stiff and his technique looks sloppy and sucks. He does look like he could beat the hell out of you though by just ripping you apart.

[CrazyFrog]

I think it's because Chen Sing was pretty ripped for a martial artist and may have not been as agile as his movie counterparts. Didn't he teach martial arts or physical fitness to prisoners? You wouldn't want a punch to land from him on your face, that's for sure.

[Chinatown Kid]

Yeah he was husky which probably restricted his movements but he looked strong. He could really play a mean bastard, one of my favorites is Mr. Lu in The Tattoo Connection. He looked best when he was fighting dirty.

[kungfusamurai]

I think most people know I'm not a fan of Jimmy Wang Yu. So, to me, he's the most overrated because of all of the accolade he's gotten. Carter Wong is probably the next overrated guy for me. Then of course John 'Right Leg' Liu. Most of the female fighters for me are overrated. Basically, I can only stand watching a handful, because most of them either are heavily doubled, or the director has to alter the speed of the film or chop out frames to make them look like they're fighting at a reasonable level. Angela Mao is the only non-Shaw woman I can stand watching. Michelle Lai did some okay fights in her films (I think 10 Tigers From Shaolin had her fighting, if not Fist of Fury III). The woman in Death Dual of Mantis, who's name escapes me, was really good. The women of the Girls with Guns 80s films were way better overall. Only Cynthia Khan has been highly disappointing. I'd say Sibelle Hu too, but I find her to mainly do acting, with just a little kung fu.

Is this thread talking about directors too? To me, Joseph Kuo is an overrated director.

There are a lot of people who I wouldn't say are OVERrated, but who do get props when for me I think they're just okay on occasion, like Dorian Tan, Donnie Yen.

A lot of the swordplay guys like Adam Cheng and Tien Peng I find are also overrated. That's why I have difficulty watching those type of films, not just because of the convoluted plots and acting.

I just scanned back to the beginning of the thread. I can see why people would find Bruce Lee and HJL overrated. HJL has pretty much two basic repertoires - his kicking, and his upper body fighting variation on the Eagle Claw. But his movements are clean, powerful, and consistent. That's why he's tops in my book. No other on screen kicker from his era (I say that because Yuen Biao is more about the 80s for me) could elevate the quality of a badly made film just from their performance alone the way Hwang could.

Bruce Lee is a tough call. He didn't get to do everything he could. It's possible he would have fallen on his face doing period films or films with specific animal style martial arts. We'll just never know. I think his bread and butter would have been going over to Japan and fighting along side guys like Chiba and Kurata, because that style of film fighting seemed to work best with Lee's style. I think the problem was that Lee couldn't 'dance' on screen. And that's because he didn't want to. But when he died, it was well before the Shaolin Cycle of films had established the animal and traditional martial arts forms as the new choreography. So in the context of when he lived and the films being made at the time, I don't think he's overrated.

KFS

[kungfusamurai]

I think it's because Chen Sing was pretty ripped for a martial artist and may have not been as agile as his movie counterparts. Didn't he teach martial arts or physical fitness to prisoners? You wouldn't want a punch to land from him on your face, that's for sure.

I agree, when it comes to bashers, Chen Sing was in his element. Still, I think he's a much better martial artist to watch than fellow basher Jimmy Wang Yu. After the basher period, he looked more like an angry ape or The Hulk swinging his arms or compared to his fellow fighters.

KFS

[kungfusamurai]

I agree with Endsang, I didn't think there was too much undercranking in The Sword. Too much trampolines and quick cuts, but that's one of the reasons I liked the action. good for people like me with ADD:p And I thougt Cheng was awesome in Shaolin vs Wutang (especially the training scenes), so we'll just have to agree to disagree there.

Shaolin Vs WuTang is a weird movie, because if I had to judge both Cheng and Gordon Liu's on screen fighting abilities based on just that film alone, Cheng would have won in my books. It was weird, and disappointing, that so much of Liu's fighting at the end required a body double.

KFS

[jiujitsu77]

so true bro...however im fond of cheng sing just because of what he has accomplished personally. he is a tought, thick dude in real life, and his style of karate really strays from all that fancy movements, so him being a straight brawler is pretty convincing

[ironfistedmonk]

Wow some people getting bashed big time on here, some of them big fan favourites too.

Adam Cheng, this guy can do things with a sword like you couldn't believe and he is getting bashed for the handful of films he made. His TV stuff is golden, just youtube his name and you can see countless clips of him in action showing some of the most sublime swordplay you will ever see, I think Liu Chia Liang described him as his best ever pupil (I think it was Cheng anyway!) and that is some accolade.

Check this clip from Victims of the Assassin alongside another great swordsman Derek Yee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tVzMWhNm1k

[northern b]

I think most people know I'm not a fan of Jimmy Wang Yu. So, to me, he's the most overrated because of all of the accolade he's gotten. Carter Wong is probably the next overrated guy for me. Then of course John 'Right Leg' Liu. Most of the female fighters for me are overrated. Basically, I can only stand watching a handful, because most of them either are heavily doubled, or the director has to alter the speed of the film or chop out frames to make them look like they're fighting at a reasonable level. Angela Mao is the only non-Shaw woman I can stand watching. Michelle Lai did some okay fights in her films (I think 10 Tigers From Shaolin had her fighting, if not Fist of Fury III). The woman in Death Dual of Mantis, who's name escapes me, was really good. The women of the Girls with Guns 80s films were way better overall. Only Cynthia Khan has been highly disappointing. I'd say Sibelle Hu too, but I find her to mainly do acting, with just a little kung fu.

Is this thread talking about directors too? To me, Joseph Kuo is an overrated director.

There are a lot of people who I wouldn't say are OVERrated, but who do get props when for me I think they're just okay on occasion, like Dorian Tan, Donnie Yen.

A lot of the swordplay guys like Adam Cheng and Tien Peng I find are also overrated. That's why I have difficulty watching those type of films, not just because of the convoluted plots and acting.

I just scanned back to the beginning of the thread. I can see why people would find Bruce Lee and HJL overrated. HJL has pretty much two basic repertoires - his kicking, and his upper body fighting variation on the Eagle Claw. But his movements are clean, powerful, and consistent. That's why he's tops in my book. No other on screen kicker from his era (I say that because Yuen Biao is more about the 80s for me) could elevate the quality of a badly made film just from their performance alone the way Hwang could.

Bruce Lee is a tough call. He didn't get to do everything he could. It's possible he would have fallen on his face doing period films or films with specific animal style martial arts. We'll just never know. I think his bread and butter would have been going over to Japan and fighting along side guys like Chiba and Kurata, because that style of film fighting seemed to work best with Lee's style. I think the problem was that Lee couldn't 'dance' on screen. And that's because he didn't want to. But when he died, it was well before the Shaolin Cycle of films had established the animal and traditional martial arts forms as the new choreography. So in the context of when he lived and the films being made at the time, I don't think he's overrated.

KFS

Good post KFS

Re Hwang Jan Lee I did find it interesting that he was mentioned as being over-rated (of course its all personal choice) I rate HJL very highly simply due to the amount of top grade films he has appeared in, his fitness level must have been ridiculous if with all the takes required etc

As for Joseph Kuo- again I agree- I intend to start a new thread in a couple days about over-rated films and a few of his will be in there.....

Won't say too much re Bruce Lee but my opinion- what he did in the time he had was incredible- I do think he raised the bar and I am convinced that he would have gone on to make some even better films had he been able to work with the likes of Liu Chia Liang,the Yuen Clan etc and screen fighters like HJL, Kao Fei etc who could handle the 10-15+ movements in a take and intricate choreography style of the aforementioned action directors

[The Dragon]

Once Bruce would have heard of HJL, he would have wanted him for one of his films instantly. If he would have finished GOD, he definetly would have heard of HJL because they were going to Korea to finish the film and he had told a production assistant he needed around 100 fighters for a scene with a feast and bulls. Koreans would have undoubtedly been invited, he respected their MA.

[vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

"I rate HJL very highly simply due to the amount of top grade films he has appeared in,"

This has always been my problem with HJL most of his films were worthless grade B storylines with lame choreographing. HJL is excellent. It's just most of the films he's starred in aren't.

Bruce helped break martial arts cinema into the american mainstream but he's not solely responsible for it. King Boxer would take more credit there i think.

In defense of Carter Wong. I thought he did just fine with his roles. He's a big dude as well and would hurt a man if he hit him. No doubt.

[northern b]

I rate HJL very highly simply due to the amount of top grade films he has appeared in,

"This has always been my problem with HJL most of his films were worthless grade B storylines with lame choreographing. HJL is excellent. It's just most of the films he's starred in aren't."

By top grade I’m not talking about the Godfrey Ho patch work films, I’m talking films such as

Drunken Master

Snake In the Eagles Shadows

Ring of Death

Heroes of the wild

Ninja in the Dragons Den

Buddha Assassinator

Hells Wind staff

Do the above films really contain ‘lame’ Choreography?

"In defense of Carter Wong. I thought he did just fine with his roles. He's a big dude as well and would hurt a man if he hit him. No doubt."

As for Carter watermelon Wong I just don’t rate him- he’s an awkward, lumbering screen fighter imo. How big he is doesn’t come into whether or not he has the ability to handle the type of screen fights I’m a fan of. Bolo (who handles choreography surprisingly well) is probably bigger than Wong yet look at his fights in Fist, Kicks, Evils, Master Killer and Writing Kung Fu…

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Ma Cheung- overrated

Tai Bo- way overrated. I can't believe they named that fitness program after him.

Cheng Fu Hung- this guy is so overrated I want to knee him in the face.

[Endsang]

Drunken Master

Snake In the Eagles Shadows

Ring of Death

Heroes of the wild

Ninja in the Dragons Den

Buddha Assassinator

Hells Wind staff

Is Buddha Assassinator the same as Hitman in the Hand of Buddha?

Anyways, one can't possibly say HJL is overrated. He gets exactly the amount of credit he deserves, that he in fact was the greatest on-screen kicker of all times.

I can't really think of any overrated ones, except Bruce of course, but I won't get into that again.. :quiet: Perhaps John Liu, who probably is the least versatile kung fu actor I've seen. Good kicker though.

[northern b]

Is Buddha Assassinator the same as Hitman in the Hand of Buddha?

No they are 2 different films-

if anything Buddha Assassinator is under-rated as a film while Hitman in the hand of Buddha is over-rated, pity really, HJL plays a good guy for once but tedious stupid, needless comedy makes the film drag. Worth checking for the ridiculous triple kicks he does though..

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Wow. Buddha Assassinator is a horrible movie, only worth watching for the final fight and opening credits. If the final fight was with say Lung Fei instead of Hwang, I would probably rate BUddha Assassinator at 0.5/5. Hitman shows off the best of HWang's skills throughout the entire movie. Also pretty decent story for a kung fu movie. I rate Hitman high, but Buddha assassinator is crap until the last 10 minutes. I will never get this overrated/underrated thing. I just don't see the point. Let's say you rate a movie a 5, and another person rates it a 3. What does this mean? Maybe the other person has different tastes than you. Nothing to do with being overrated or underrated. I wish those words were never invented. Or at least I wish they made sense to me.

[northern b]

Wow. Buddha Assassinator is a horrible movie, only worth watching for the final fight and opening credits. If the final fight was with say Lung Fei instead of Hwang, I would probably rate BUddha Assassinator at 0.5/5. Hitman shows off the best of HWang's skills throughout the entire movie. Also pretty decent story for a kung fu movie. I rate Hitman high, but Buddha assassinator is crap until the last 10 minutes. I will never get this overrated/underrated thing. I just don't see the point. Let's say you rate a movie a 5, and another person rates it a 3. What does this mean? Maybe the other person has different tastes than you. Nothing to do with being overrated or underrated. I wish those words were never invented. Or at least I wish they made sense to me.

I did state in a previous post that it is down to taste- your post proves this, I rate Buddha Assassinator over Hitman, you don't fair enough...

As for over\under -rated I have experienced films being hyped to me from vendors (even when they knew the kind of films I rated) needless to say they would say everything they sold was top grade and it p'd me off big time- For example Is Thundering Mantis really better than Buddhist Fist?

It's interesting see peoples thoughts on this thread I've never seen HJL as being over-rated until now!

[Jstn]

Here I am, once again..........the one who began this thread. Endsang, it is very possible for one to say the HJL is overated becuase I'm one who has said it. I don't dislike the man as an actor and I don't dislike him as a martial artist. I have many, many years of martial arts experince under my belt and although, I couldn't possibly kick as hard and as fast as someone like HJL, i do feel qualifiied enough to concoct an opinion. There are some movies where I enjoyed watching him perform. Just recently, I saw "Dragon and Tiger Kids" and I was truly excited about seeing him in that movie. Personally, I enjoy watching crisp choreography between versatile fighters who can change 'shapes' to fit the movie and the style. HJL just doesn't do it for me. His kicks and kick sequences seem pretty much the same and his hand work and upper body movements are nothing I consider spectacular to watch. I believe he certainly does deserve much respect for being an outstanding martial artist (from all I've heard). As far as a 'kung fu artist' in old school flicks, he's far from my favorite and a bit overated, in my opinion.

[Li Ho]

chin kar lok

chuck norris

jimmy wang yu

the u.f.c.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

The UFC used to suck, but now that they have Pride fighters competing it has gotten a whole lot better. Still could be a lot better though. Like getting Fedor. Even if it was like a 1 fight deal, dana White needs to make it happen. No excuses from either side. Just get him in the octagon!

Northern B I rate Buddha Assassinator and Hitman pretty much the same. I give both a 3.5/5 rating. Hitman has a ton of really good things going for it, Buddha Assassinator just has one thing, the final fight. And what a great final fight it is. But how you can say Hitman is overrated doesn't make any sense to me, especially if you are a HWang fan. You should go into movies with lower expectations, and not let the people that sell you the movies make you think it is going to be one of the best movies ever. You are just asking to be disappointed when you do that. And I can definitely see hwo people can say Thundering Mantis is better than BUddhist Fist. I like Buddhist Fist more myself, but not many movies have an ending as crazy and emotion filled as Thundering Mantis.

[Chinatown Kid]

In some films HJL looks better than in others. Drunken Master and Kid From Kwangtung are two of my favorites because his kicks are utilized to the fullest. I didn't like him to good in Dance of the Drunken Mantis(I do admit the choreography was good in this film of course) because his kicks were restricted by the choreographer and was made to focus more on Mantis hand techniques so his best talent was not utilzed. That would be like having TTL in a film and have him play a boxer or a Hung Gar stylist.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Good point. He does throw some great kicks in Dance of the Drunken Mantis, but kicking is not his main attack. That is one of my favorite movies and I don't really have any problems with it, but I can see why you weren't totally happy with Hwang's performance. With a guy like him, you expect to see kick after kick. But I liked seeing his verstatility.

[northern b]

Northern B I rate Buddha Assassinator and Hitman pretty much the same. I give both a 3.5/5 rating. Hitman has a ton of really good things going for it, Buddha Assassinator just has one thing, the final fight. And what a great final fight it is. But how you can say Hitman is overrated doesn't make any sense to me, especially if you are a HWang fan. You should go into movies with lower expectations, and not let the people that sell you the movies make you think it is going to be one of the best movies ever. You are just asking to be disappointed when you do that. And I can definitely see hwo people can say Thundering Mantis is better than BUddhist Fist. I like Buddhist Fist more myself, but not many movies have an ending as crazy and emotion filled as Thundering Mantis.

Morgoth you have to appreciate this was a long time ago even before DVDs, the films were expensive and its not like you could read a review, check a forum for opinions or even preview the movies online like you can today!

However my tastes were honed very quickly, later through a friend I met someone who was around in the late night era and he had a ton of films so I was able to check a lot of titles..

On Buddha and Hitman we'll have to agree to disagree..

As for Thundering Mantis again its down to personal choice I thinks its rubbish (the last scene is OK) while Buddhist Fist is top grade and I'd at least give a customer reasons for rating (or not) either film which is maybe why I'm not a vendor, wouldn't make any money!!!

[Endsang]

Here I am, once again..........the one who began this thread. Endsang, it is very possible for one to say the HJL is overated becuase I'm one who has said it. I don't dislike the man as an actor and I don't dislike him as a martial artist. I have many, many years of martial arts experince under my belt and although, I couldn't possibly kick as hard and as fast as someone like HJL, i do feel qualifiied enough to concoct an opinion. There are some movies where I enjoyed watching him perform. Just recently, I saw "Dragon and Tiger Kids" and I was truly excited about seeing him in that movie. Personally, I enjoy watching crisp choreography between versatile fighters who can change 'shapes' to fit the movie and the style. HJL just doesn't do it for me. His kicks and kick sequences seem pretty much the same and his hand work and upper body movements are nothing I consider spectacular to watch. I believe he certainly does deserve much respect for being an outstanding martial artist (from all I've heard). As far as a 'kung fu artist' in old school flicks, he's far from my favorite and a bit overated, in my opinion.

Well said, and you're definately right about versatility. I suppose the ultimate on screen martial artist would be someone well rounded in both upper and lower body, as well as weapon skill and ability to handle different sorts of action choreography. I do still believe though, that in his prime, Hwang Jang Lee was the best in what he did, and in the late 70s/early 80s, there were no actors who stood close to him when it came to delivering forceful and aesthetic kicks.