Member Shaolindogma Posted March 27, 2008 Member Share Posted March 27, 2008 oh, vonhumboldtfleisher, i see you've returned. Hahahaha! I agree 100% man! I second that, and i have a theory. Today's generation has been so duped and molested by corporate media that their sense of creativity and the ability to think freely has been taken away. Values like respecting elders, remembering the past, basic manners, have all been replaced with greed and the importance of self. Example, some retarded skater kids talking about how they were such hippies because they wear tie die shirts and like Jimmy Hendrix. Kid 1: "Jimmy is the man. I wonder when he's going to come out with a new CD." Me: "Jimmy died a long time ago." Kid 2: "You must be thinking of like, someone else." Me: "Hendrix, the guy who played the national anthem at Woodstock." Kid 1: "Uh no. The guy who wrote Layla." Me: "That would be Eric Clapton, and Jimmy is black." Kid 2: "Dude, you're a freak. Jimmy is white." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Yakuza954 Posted March 27, 2008 Member Share Posted March 27, 2008 Why is Jimmy Wang Yu always included on these kind of lists? People rarely have good things to say about him and I think the number of people on this board who like his work enough to be considered "fans" can be counted on one hand. You have to be more popular than that to be overrated. BTW, for all of you who are always attacking the choreography in his movies, just remember that its on par with the choreography in other movies made during the same time-period (early to mid 70's) and in some cases, above average (Two Cavaliers, Master of the Flying Guillotine). Just take that into consideration next time you pop in "The Prodigal Son" after watching a Jimmy wang Yu film and go "OMG WANG YU IS SO SLOW!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 Since you say the fight choreography in Wang Yu's movies is just as good as any of the fight choreography in the other films of the early 70's then you mean Bruce's films too? I don't agree with that at all, Bruce Lee's fight scenes make Wang Yu's look like a joke in comparison. This is only my opinon though and don't get me wrong I do like Wang Yu in his Basher style crude fights and can appreciate him for that. I heard Jimmy was supposedly a tough streetfighter as well, but Bruce was light years ahead of him as far as Martial Arts ability/skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cesare Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 Wouldn't dare to call Bruce 'overrated', the man was a real phenomenon... Got to admit though, that I am not the biggest fan of his movies. I'm glad I've seen them, I'm glad that I own them and I like them and I respect Bruce's accomplishments - but they just don't work as well for me as e.g. One-Armed Swordsman or Have Sword, Will Travel... Or the Venom flicks... As for D. Chiang/Lo Lieh/Wang Yu - those guys had charisma and were pretty decent actors. As for D. Chiang - if anything, I think that fighting-wise, that guy is often a little underrated, at least in certain circles. Fu Sheng - you kidding...? ;-))) <stating the obvious>But of course, different things work for different people and somebody's trash is somebody else's treasure...;-)</stating the obvious> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sifu Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 Wow, this thread is full of some overly confident opinions! They think what they're saying is fact, yet it's not. I wholeheartedly say the most overrated to me is, I know I'm gonna hear the screams, but definitely........................................ I really can't say, most every actor has paid his dues. I CAN'T believe it, but for once I don't have an opinion. There are several I can think of, but they've always done something to redeem themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 Well I have to say David Chiang looked mighty good in his fight scenes in the film The Loot, the choreographer did a great job with him on that one. If you haven't seen it definetly check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Yakuza954 Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 Since you say the fight choreography in Wang Yu's movies is just as good as any of the fight choreography in the other films of the early 70's then you mean Bruce's films too? I don't agree with that at all, Bruce Lee's fight scenes make Wang Yu's look like a joke in comparison. This is only my opinon though and don't get me wrong I do like Wang Yu in his Basher style crude fights and can appreciate him for that. I heard Jimmy was supposedly a tough streetfighter as well, but Bruce was light years ahead of him as far as Martial Arts ability/skill. I said Wang Yu's choreography was average for its time period, and in some cases, above average. I would agree that Bruce was a better screenfighter, and I think you misunderstood my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jstn Posted March 28, 2008 Author Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 Well I have to say David Chiang looked mighty good in his fight scenes in the film The Loot, the choreographer did a great job with him on that one. If you haven't seen it definetly check it out! I'm right there with ya on that movie, some real nice stuff there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Endsang Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 Well I have to say David Chiang looked mighty good in his fight scenes in the film The Loot, the choreographer did a great job with him on that one. If you haven't seen it definetly check it out! Don't forget "The Challenger", also featuring David Chiang, Norman Tsui and Philip Ko Fei. Philip totally steals the show in the final fight though.. damn I love watching him go at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 I said Wang Yu's choreography was average for its time period, and in some cases, above average. I would agree that Bruce was a better screenfighter, and I think you misunderstood my post. Sorry if I misunderstood, thanks for clarifying Yakuza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 Don't forget "The Challenger", also featuring David Chiang, Norman Tsui and Philip Ko Fei. Philip totally steals the show in the final fight though.. damn I love watching him go at it. Yeah I had forgot all about The Challenger, Chiang looked great in that as well. If he had made more movies where he looked as good in the fights as those two I would probably respect him more as a screenfighter. Chiang, like Wang Yu did have a certain charisma and charm to him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cesare Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 I'd like to see some of the series that D. Chiang did for ATV... Judging from the clips I've seen - action-wise, he tended to look pretty good in those... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member CrazyFrog Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 I don't know if I've seen enough films or know these people enough to make a call on who's over-rated. There are actors I don't like as much or who don't seem as convincing, such as the aforementioned Jimmy Wang Yu. Some peoples skill level didn't always match up with their onscreen partners and I think Lo Lieh is one of them. I think he had solid weapon skills but just ok forms and agility. He strikes me as being potentially very strong and his charisma (whether used for good or bad) was unmatched. So it's just a subjective call, really. And I agree with whoever posted that overrated needs to be defined more precisely, so it minimizes the agitation. Of course, this is the Interwebz, kthx4rlz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ironfistedmonk Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 I don't think Carter Wong is over-rated, everyone knows he's crap Just kidding with ya mate, I don't think I'd call any actor over-rated, there are those I don't like much like Jimmy Wang Yu but there is no doubt the guy made some entertaining movies so I wouldn't bash the opinion of anyone who thought he was the bees knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 Wang Yu may not have been one of the best looking screen fighters, but because of his acting, he was one of the best at making it seem like he was in a really tough fight. that's gotta count for something. It does to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted March 28, 2008 Member Share Posted March 28, 2008 Wang Yu may not have been one of the best looking screen fighters, but because of his acting, he was one of the best at making it seem like he was in a really tough fight. that's gotta count for something. It does to me. True, Morgoth. There has to be a starting point, and Jimmy Wang Yu was Shaws' first MA star, and the void left by him opened avenues for the likes of Ti Lung, David Chiang, Lo Lieh, Yueh Wah, Chen Kuai Tai, and many others. He was a guy who managed to extend a career, not based on skill but ingenuity and gimmicks, at times well done, whether you liked him or not, that stretched through to the heart of the genre's peak. Films like Master of The Flying Guillotine, The One-Armed Boxer, and Blood of The Dragon, were classic Kung Fu Films, many a fan appreciate. ...and many ideas were spawned for future projects due to his contributions. He probably missed a calling as a Director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member vonhumboldtfleisher Posted March 29, 2008 Member Share Posted March 29, 2008 I'd like to see some of the series that D. Chiang did for ATV... Judging from the clips I've seen - action-wise, he tended to look pretty good in those... Here's a clip I just uploaded from a relatively recent ATV series, "The Snow is Red" from 1996. The choreography is very New Wavey - all flippy and jumpy - but he still looks like a badass. vzoV64PLJJQ&hl Sad to see so little love for Carter Wong - I've always enjoyed watching him. He makes a very strange romantic lead in KILLER OF SNAKE, FOX OF SHAOLIN for instance, but he's rarely boring. Unlike some people I could mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted March 29, 2008 Member Share Posted March 29, 2008 I liked Carter Wong when he swole up and exploded in Big Trouble in Little China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cesare Posted March 29, 2008 Member Share Posted March 29, 2008 Here's a clip I just uploaded from a relatively recent ATV series, "The Snow is Red" from 1996. The choreography is very New Wavey - all flippy and jumpy - but he still looks like a badass. Cool vid... There's other interesting stuff on youtube (mostly posted by rrden, I think...;-)) from the older series like Dynasty or Princess Chang Ping... Wish I could get my hands on those... Haven't seen much Carter Wong but he was quite entertaining in The Traitorous, I think... Chinatown Kid: I kinda liked him even before he swole up and exploded...;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member AlbertV Posted March 29, 2008 Member Share Posted March 29, 2008 Yeah I had forgot all about The Challenger, Chiang looked great in that as well. If he had made more movies where he looked as good in the fights as those two I would probably respect him more as a screenfighter. Chiang, like Wang Yu did have a certain charisma and charm to him though. Guess I'll have to break out my Ocean Shores video collection...when the rental place I used to go to years ago when I was in NY closed down, they gave me most of their Ocean Shores videos because they knew me from renting all the kung fu films there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tantheman Posted March 29, 2008 Member Share Posted March 29, 2008 The only good things Carter Wong did were Big Trouble in Little China and Born Invincible. His fighting skills are so limited its unbelievable, and he has the most annoying face ever. Jimmy Wang Yu has done too much great and important stuff to be over rated. One of my faves is Sword of Swords, great choreography by the Pops in that one. I think he has some some charisma too, and he's always watchable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Endsang Posted March 29, 2008 Member Share Posted March 29, 2008 Carter Wong had a decent appearance in Marco Polo. I think he could have done well with Shaw. I agree he's probably not the most charismatic actor out there, but I wouldn't say his fighting skills are limited. Think he's just the basher type and haven't gotten with some proper shapes choreography. I saw a pic of him posing with a world champ belt by the way. Anyone know when he got it and in what contact sport he won it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted March 29, 2008 Member Share Posted March 29, 2008 I know one thing, he's a real fighter, and if you've seen his hands, you can tell he's practiced Hand styles with lots of damaged knuckes and fingers. Chipped teeth also. Bruce liked him, and wanted him to play his student who escaped the Pagoda in G.O.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jesse Smooth Posted March 31, 2008 Member Share Posted March 31, 2008 I wouldn't say that Bruce is overrated. It just seems that way because the general public doesn't know better. While it seemed other countries were able to be familiar with other actors, the general American public (casual fans) knew only Bruce Lee. It seems that they didn't want to know any of the other actors either. Now, I will say that Bruce is the man! However, as we all know that he made only four films--I recall reading that Brandon had said the same thing (I don't understand this legend stuff when my father only made four complete films.). Also, there are very bad journalists in martial arts media who talk nothing but Bruce Lee. I read a review in Black Belt for a few kung fu DVDs and the author talked about "the void" from Bruce's death to SITES. There was no void. Hell. some of the best kung fu movies came in that period. But that's my two cents. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted March 31, 2008 Member Share Posted March 31, 2008 I know one thing, he's a real fighter, and if you've seen his hands, you can tell he's practiced Hand styles with lots of damaged knuckes and fingers. Chipped teeth also. Bruce liked him, and wanted him to play his student who escaped the Pagoda in G.O.D. Ron Van Clief also gave him much respect on the audio commentary for Way of the Black Dragon. They have a good fight against eachother in that movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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