Member peringaten Posted March 21, 2008 Member Share Posted March 21, 2008 I spotted a couple of copies of Lost Souls in London's Chinatown only the other week, if any Londoners are interested in picking this up before it goes completely obscure. Sure they had Starlets For Sale as well. Guess these have been sat unsold on the shelves for a while. I wonder if Legendary Weapons did well as it was a New Year's release? As perhaps implied by the original trailer. Wonder when the 'new year film' tradition got going in HK? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member HAZ Posted March 21, 2008 Author Member Share Posted March 21, 2008 Most Chinatown's should be pretty laced with these. One shop up here that closed a couple years back has a ton of backstock sitting in the old owner's basement. Every few weeks, I go by to pick through the IVL DVDs. The only one that I've had a hard time to turn up is Kiss Of Death & I didn't really look that hard. I've seen 36 Chambers for sale, sealed new with no slipcase which makes me think some are still in print. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member teako170 Posted March 21, 2008 Member Share Posted March 21, 2008 He was still popular in Taiwan. They shot five films at once and it took five films to equal the take of just one of LKL's movies as an example. No disrespect V5 but allow me to clarify that CC never made 5 films at once nor did it take 5 CC films to equal one of LKL's in box office revenue. Indeed CC would work on a few films simultaneously and his output was causing a bit of an "inconvenience" for LKL as Toby Russell mentioned several years back (on speaking w/ Robert Tai). To quote: "Our [CC's] films were doing really well and this upset director Liu Chia Liang who was getting some flack from Run Run and Mona Fong, saying look these Taiwanese are churning out three good pictures to your one." As far as numbers go.... LKL's flix did historically better at the box office but the LWOC's number were the exception and not the rule. Here's a few comparisons for top $ film from each director: 1977 LKL - Executioners From Shaolin: $2.6M CC - Chinatown Kid: $1.5M 1978 LKL - 36th Chamber Of Shaolin: $2.9M CC - The Five Venoms: $1.8M 1979 LKL - Mad Monkey Kung Fu: $2.0M CC - Shaolin Rescuers: $1.8M LKL's films did pick up steam however in the early 80s whereas CC's film were in decline as these numbers show.... Martial Club (1981): $5M Cat Vs. Rat (1982): $4.4M Lady Is the Boss (1983): $5M Note however that all these had elements of chuckle-fu for comedies were now "king of the box office." What happens when you bring in a straight forward kung flick that has two prior films to give it plenty of punch at the box office? You have the disappointing... Disciples of 36th Chamber (1985): $1.6M (ranked 73rd that year) One last thing, HK's numbers were not all that hot until the very early 80s when films first began to break the $10M mark. If CC and/or LKL were churning out their classics of the 70s a decade later (and the moviegoers were still into this genre), their box office numbers might have been a lot different. The GH and Seasonal films gave audiences what they wanted--they wanted to laugh and Cheh's movies were recycled ideas and themes of his past hits buried under a bunch of fight scenes. They were violent and bloody and most of the HK audience didn't want that anymore. Yes, I agree with you 100%. Times were changing and CC was probably just too old (or just didn't care anymore) to change with the times. But hey who wants Chang Cheh Chuckle-Fu anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venoms5 Posted March 22, 2008 Member Share Posted March 22, 2008 I meant five films in a given year which was on a couple of occasions upwards of 9 films in a year. You need only look at Cheh's stats for '82 and compare them with LKL to see that it took a handful of them to come close to what LKL was bringing in at the time. A little over half the venom films combined to make what LKL did in '82. I don't buy that Robert Tai story. He makes an interesting conversation piece. I have the issue with the same interview. Robert Tai is a very bitter man and it's a bit hard to swallow that LKL would show up to fight the venom guys over a movie. Again, considering that it took so many of Chang's films to equal the take of one, let alone TWO of LKL movies makes this story seem like Tai has it backwards. That maybe it was HE that approached LKL and not the other way around. His story just seems laughable at least to me anyway. Don't agree about if they had been making the same kinds of films in the 80s there numbers would have been better. The comedies often outdid the violent action films in the theaters in the 70s. I can't see too many parents taking their children to see extremely violent action films with occasional nudity thrown into the mix. With an occasional period piece hit here and there, Shaw went to TV because the same type of thing was on TV for free and like Hammer before them, they refused to change with the tide or simply were unable to do so as they'd been doing the same type of things for years. The few good examples weren't enough to sustain them especially against the onslaught of what GH was doing at the time with the New Wave style and comedy stunt filled movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted March 22, 2008 Member Share Posted March 22, 2008 Whatever the truth is, it's definately interesting to debate. Thanks for all the interesting info guys, I'm learning alot from this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venoms5 Posted March 22, 2008 Member Share Posted March 22, 2008 Tabulating all of LKL's films from 1978-DISCIPLES OF 36TH CHAMBER the total comes to $45,419,666. This was ONLY films he directed and not including other films like SHAOLIN VS WU TANG or CLAN OF THE WHITE LOTUS and his few indy flicks. Chang Cheh's films between the same time period from 1978 thru 1982 is... $27,036,813 How could Shaw or Mona Fong or whoever be upset with LKL with numbers like that with such a smaller number of films versus such a high number of films with a lower total return. Taking into consideration the cost of film, processing, dubbing and everything else that goes into a production. The reason Cheh turned out so many was that was what his contract called for after closing up operations in Taiwan--25 films, five per year at $200,000 per picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted March 22, 2008 Member Share Posted March 22, 2008 My eyes are glued to the screen reading this. Cool stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member teako170 Posted March 22, 2008 Member Share Posted March 22, 2008 You need only look at Cheh's stats for '82 and compare them with LKL to see that it took a handful of them to come close to what LKL was bringing in at the time. A little over half the venom films combined to make what LKL did in '82. Yes, 1982 (thanks to LWOC) was indeed a good year for LKL. Comparing films from the same year is one thing but taking a bunch of films from several years and comparing it to one film with a good release is another. Its like comparing all of Hitchcock's films against the box office gross of The Titanic. Its apples to oranges. Not a very fair comparison. Anyway.... Robert Tai is a very bitter man and it's a bit hard to swallow that LKL would show up to fight the venom guys over a movie. Again, considering that it took so many of Chang's films to equal the take of one, let alone TWO of LKL movies makes this story seem like Tai has it backwards. That maybe it was HE that approached LKL and not the other way around. Can't comment on Tai's personality as I never met the man. However I have spoken with Toby on numerous occasions and the gist I get is Tai was very strong headed. Now as far as that conversation went (however it went down) it happened in 1979. By '80, Tai was gone from the Shaws and doing his indie thing in Taiwan. In '79, CC & LKL's films were fairly even when it came to box office dollars, so I can't see any reason why Tai would be upset with LKL (least not as far as who's blank is bigger debate). NOW if the conversation would have occurred in '82 (when LKL's $ reigned), then yes, I could see your point of it being turned around. Sorry - what I meant by numbers being better in the 80s was that ticket prices were more at the time and the overall numbers were on the rise, so LKL/CC's numbers would have improved by default. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venoms5 Posted March 22, 2008 Member Share Posted March 22, 2008 Fair enough...but still.... Chang Cheh's number of films between 1978 to 1982: 21 with a total of $27,036,813 LKL's number of DIRECTED SHAW BROTHERS films between 1978 to 1982: 13 films with a total of $45,419,666. Regardless of when that interview took place the numbers speak for themselves. Don't misinterpret me, I'm a MASSIVE CC fan far more so than a LKL fan but this is how I see this situation. I wasn't there obviously but this is my interpretation of the matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venoms5 Posted March 22, 2008 Member Share Posted March 22, 2008 Even if you shaved the $10 million off for LWOC that still leaves a wide margin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member teako170 Posted March 22, 2008 Member Share Posted March 22, 2008 Fair enough...but still.... "...but still." Ha-ha! My favorite KF movie line Chang Cheh's number of films between 1978 to 1982: 21 with a total of $27,036,813 LKL's number of DIRECTED SHAW BROTHERS films between 1978 to 1982: 13 films with a total of $45,419,666. Yes, indeed LKL ruled in numbers during this period. I would be curious to see the dollar figures for the period from 1975-1979. I know CC:LKL film ratio was 3:1 during this period but not sure of all the dollars. This would certainly shed a little more light on the Mona/Run vs LKL story and if it was indeed a valid complaint. Anyway, thanks for the rousing discussion. Its been a while.... T 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venoms5 Posted March 22, 2008 Member Share Posted March 22, 2008 Yeah, thank you teak there's nobody around where I'm at to talk about these movies. I have to go visit my friends in NY to do so. I'm supposed to be meeting up with a Chinese film professor soon who was friends with King Hu and he's a massive Chang fan. Only his early works I'm afraid. He, like some Chinese I know doesn't count the later films. Hopefully that will lead to some info and Johnny Lo Mar lives in NY too BTW so getting him for a conversation would reveal lots as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chu Liu Hsiang Posted December 27, 2022 Member Share Posted December 27, 2022 Thanks to @NoKUNGFUforYU I was able to watch this movie and it's now my favorite Shaw ghost movie. Some great kung fu fights, beautiful inventive magic fights, ghosts, ninjas, what's not to love! I smiled several times, and there was not a single toilet joke which is worth a comment in itself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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