Game of Death: Game Over! - New book on GOD by best-selling author Joe Kenney

[The Dragon]

I've read "Unsettled Matters" and found it seriously interesting but when I started reading about Bruce's alleged steroid use to get ripped for ETD, I didn't know what to think. Alot of people say that that particular part of the book was a lie, due to the fact that Tom Bleecker had a messy divorce from Linda Lee and that was a small way in which he could get some payback . By smearing Bruce's name a little.

He did look extremely thin and ripped for ETD and one wonders if steroids were involved, especially as back then steroids were quite a new thing and weren't considered dangerous or illegal. But who knows?

Look, Bruce worshipers may feel Bleecker was smearing his name, however, truth be told-Lee smeared his own name. It's not Bleecker's fault of Lee's actions... I'm grateful he has revealed the truth. Linda certainly wasn't going to. The fact that the man had to be dead for over 25yrs before even a shred of truth be brought forth is ridiculous.

I don't believe there's a bigger Bruce Lee fan than myself. I have to be true to myself though; he was a human being with faults, shortcomings, and qualities that, like a lot of folk just didn't ingratiate himself to many. If you look at photos of him from his Seattle years, through his time on The Green Hornet, his appearance is robust and healthy... If you look at him from the GOD through ETD days, he looks unquestionably unhealthy. The man was clearly on something!

[Son Of A Gun]

Hey, I didn't say I didn't believe it. I said "I didn't know what to think". I hate not knowing the truth, that's all.

I don't care what the truth is, I just don't like not knowing one way or the other.

If it's true, which I can easily believe it is due to the reasons you listed, then I just want to know for certain. Bleeker had a reason to lie but whether he was or not, I don't know.

Bruce was definitely thin and spotty during ETD and he looked even thinner after filming ended from what I've seen an heard. I just don't know why he would let himself get so thin.

He could have gained some weight back after filming wrapped but he didn't. Was he ill? Not able to eat properly? Who knows.

Did the steroids make him ill? Perhaps the side effects - depression. Was he using diuretics too often? Would be good to have someone confirm Bleekers claims once and for all.

I remember Robert Lee in an interview saying "the family knew what was wrong with Bruce towards the end and why he looked so unhealthy", but he wouldn't say what it was.

I guess he was referring to steroid use and over working.

I don't believe there's a bigger Bruce Lee fan than myself.

We all think that about ourselves.

[sifu iron perm]

Bruce - "What are we gonna do with this footage once it's in the can?"

Raymond - "We're going to store it away in the vaults of course, and then after you die, we'll wait untill 1978

and have Robert Clouse chop it into 11 mins and insert it into a totally different film."

Bruce - "Ok, sounds good."

the picture alone shows how much Bruce had great screen/stage presense.

[The Dragon]

Son of a gun I wasn't trying to be condenscending. I was pointificating. I respect what you were saying, and simply adding information. I'm not disagreeing Bleecker may have an axe to grind, still he put out information that obviously never would have been disclosed.

P.S. ... Remember, no one has come forth to disprove the allegations he wrote about, and no one has collected on his $25,000 offer to disprove his disclosures.

That's a lot of bread in this economy, and he wrote the book... what-15yrs ago?

[mpm74]

I don't have to remind you two about Charlie Wang...

The bottom line is: It is better to die a broken piece of jade, than to live a life of clay.

[Son Of A Gun]

^Very true, Mpm74, ...very true. I'm glad you reminded me about Charlie Wang.

Son of a gun I wasn't trying to be condenscending. I was pointificating. I respect what you were saying, and simply adding information. I'm not disagreeing Bleecker may have an axe to grind, still he put out information that obviously never would have been disclosed.

P.S. ... Remember, no one has come forth to disprove the allegations he wrote about, and no one has collected on his $25,000 offer to disprove his disclosures.

That's a lot of bread in this economy, and he wrote the book... what-15yrs ago?

Yeah, I loved the info I found in the book, but when I don't know which bits are true and which bits are false and which bits are exaggerated, it's frustrating. Almost like I wish I never read the damn book.

Example- Tom said - Bruce didn't get the back injury from weight lifting but in fact he put his back out having sex. Is that true? Who knows?!

[Golden Arm Kid]

No, this is the Jabbar floor. I have 100s of pics from GOD and there is no evidence of any other floor not featured in the footage we have. Sorry. You've had an argument with your brain and lost.

I don't know about the log. It could have been holding a door open downstairs or something. The possibilities are endless.

they could have stopped at "Logs R Us" on the way there.

But Bruce's green bamboo whip was no doubt brought in with him because the film was supposed to open with the tree branches snapping in the wind and snow storm and in comparison the branch of a bamboo tree was flexible enough to bend in the storm without snapping. So this is the connection to Bruce using the green bamboo whip, I would think.

Aw man...now I feel pretty stupid. Are you sure? I remember there obviously being a vase or two on Jabbar's floor (obviously when Kareem tries to shove Bruce's head into the shards of the broken vase) but I don't have a recollection of ever seeing those jars/jugs. If you really are right then I really do deserve the dunce cap right now though lol.

I believe the opening scene if I remember right was supposed to be the camera seeing a regular ol' tree in a snowstorm or under heavy wind with its branches and whatnot snapping. The camera then goes over to a willow tree that's just moving with the wind.

A great intro to say the least but I don't think that can be considered evidence that Bruce brought the bamboo in with him. It definitely makes it more understandable to the audience why it is in the film but I don't think it does anything to prove if he brought it into the pagoda with him or not. I could definitely see him bringing the bamboo in with him but I just always thought to myself "Man I would really like to see him take that bamboo from a previous floor". That would again emphasize Bruce's philosophy of how one can never make preparations before a real fight to be successful and that the real success is found in persevering right in the moment.

[Golden Arm Kid]

Look, Bruce worshipers may feel Bleecker was smearing his name, however, truth be told-Lee smeared his own name. It's not Bleecker's fault of Lee's actions... I'm grateful he has revealed the truth. Linda certainly wasn't going to. The fact that the man had to be dead for over 25yrs before even a shred of truth be brought forth is ridiculous.

I don't believe there's a bigger Bruce Lee fan than myself. I have to be true to myself though; he was a human being with faults, shortcomings, and qualities that, like a lot of folk just didn't ingratiate himself to many. If you look at photos of him from his Seattle years, through his time on The Green Hornet, his appearance is robust and healthy... If you look at him from the GOD through ETD days, he looks unquestionably unhealthy. The man was clearly on something!

I disagree. Based on the pics of him during outdoor scenes of G.O.D I'd say he still looked good during filming of G.O.D. He did look very unlike himself in ETD though. Almost NO fat (his body fat was of course already close to non existent), he looked like he lost muscle mass, and he looked pretty bony considering what he's looked like in the past.

Just my thoughts.

[Son Of A Gun]

You said "I disagree" but then everything you said after that pretty much, agrees with what he was saying. 'lol

We were saying he was thin and gaunt during ETD. You've agreed.

That was allegedly due to him doing some crazy hard work outs in preparation for the film and allegedly getting injected with some kind of performance steroid by the doctor then taking diuretics to flush out all the water from his body, to attain that "walnuts in a condom" look.

His muscles were so defined in ETD because he planned it that way. But reports of him not eating much and stressing over so many areas of the production and not sleeping much, led to him getting ill. Or at least looking ill.

[Golden Arm Kid]

You said "I disagree" but then everything you said after that pretty much, agrees with what he was saying. 'lol

We were saying he was thin and gaunt during ETD. You've agreed.

That was allegedly due to him doing some crazy hard work outs in preparation for the film and allegedly getting injected with some kind of performance steroid by the doctor then taking diuretics to flush out all the water from his body, to attain that "walnuts in a condom" look.

His muscles were so defined in ETD because he planned it that way. But reports of him not eating much and stressing over so many areas of the production and not sleeping much, led to him getting ill. Or at least looking ill.

Am I really? What I was trying to say was that he looked relatively off in ETD but not in G.O.D.

Was that what you were trying to say because if it was then I misunderstood.

[Son Of A Gun]

Me personally, I can't remember if I mentioned GOD.

Did the other dude say anything about it then? I don't remember. Sorry.

And yeah, he was already looking thin but not necessarily unhealthy during the filming of GOD. I guess when Weintraub came to the set to seal a deal for Bruce to work on ETD, that's when Bruce really hit the gym harder than ever and probably started on the roids a bit harder too. In preparation.

But I'm gonna shut up about this now because I didn't know Bruce personally.

[Golden Arm Kid]

Me personally, I can't remember if I mentioned GOD.

Did the other dude say anything about it then? I don't remember. Sorry.

And yeah, he was already looking thin but not necessarily unhealthy during the filming of GOD. I guess when Weintraub came to the set to seal a deal for Bruce to work on ETD, that's when Bruce really hit the gym harder than ever and probably started on the roids a bit harder too. In preparation.

But I'm gonna shut up about this now because I didn't know Bruce personally.

Oh wow. I just realized I quoted the wrong guy lol. Meant to quote the dude with the ETD avatar lol. Sorry about that.

EDIT: Actually I quoted the right guy. I was directing my statement at TheDragon. Not you. Sorry about the mix-up again.

[sdog2006]

I thought Bruce looked a little thinner in Game of Death but he was still needle sharp. The first turning kick he does to Ji Han Jae, in terms of speed, is unbelievable.

For me he began losing weight during the Enter the Dragon shoot due to stress. Also, there is no doubt that he was taking steroids post Fist of Fury and that continued to the end of his life. The difference is his physique between late 1971 and mid 1972 is night and day.

That nasty cannabis shit he was chewing took his life. One of the official documents relating to his death cites "drug ideosyncrasy" meaning that his body had an abnormal reaction (brain swelling) when he ingested it.

This is what I believe made him look sickly, unhealthy and eventually killed him. That plus Betty Ting Pei didn't do anything to help him when he got ill.

[Golden Arm Kid]

I thought Bruce looked a little thinner in Game of Death but he was still needle sharp. The first turning kick he does to Ji Han Jae, in terms of speed, is unbelievable.

For me he began losing weight during the Enter the Dragon shoot due to stress. , there is no doubt that he was taking steroids post Fist of Fury and that continued to the end of his life. The difference is his physique between late 1971 and mid 1972 is night and day.

That nasty cannabis shit he was chewing took his life. One of the official documents relating to his death cites "drug ideosyncrasy" meaning that his body had an abnormal reaction (brain swelling) when he ingested it.

This is what I believe made him look sickly, unhealthy and eventually killed him. That plus Betty Ting Pei didn't do anything to help him when he got ill.

I respect your opinion but I personally doubt that or at least based on comparisons of what Bruce looked like post-Fist of Fury.

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/galleries/fofonset/pic0107.jpg

Bruce looks very similar in terms of physique when comparing this lat spread from behind-the-scenes/promotional stills from Fist of Fury to his lat spread in Way of the Dragon. The difference maker I believe he added a bit more muscle mass I think. He looked little wider in WotD. I still think the difference from FoF to WotD is minimal. Bruce had definetely imroved his physique but not tremendously. Nowhere near enough for steroid allegations. I think we just never got a decent chance to see Bruce's muscularity in FoF and even most of TBB because we never got to see him pose or flex his muscles in front of the camera for a film. I think WotD really showed just how muscular Bruce was and it opened a lot of eyes.

EDIT:

For comparison's sake here are some pics from WotD that show his lat spread

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/galleries/wayonset/way079.jpg

and of course

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/galleries/waydvd/pic484.jpg

Unless you want to make the arguement that Bruce was on steroids from FoF and earlier. I have nothing to disprove that. All I can say is that I think Bruce would have had to weigh more than he did (140-150 lbs on average? 160 at the most he'd ever weighed?) in order for me to be convinced of steroid use. Idk it's just the way I feel although I can see why other people suspect it.

[The Dragon]

... Yeah, I loved the info I found in the book, but when I don't know which bits are true and which bits are false and which bits are exaggerated, it's frustrating. Almost like I wish I never read the damn book.

Example- Tom said - Bruce didn't get the back injury from weight lifting but in fact he put his back out having sex. Is that true? Who knows?!

Linda knows. That's where he got the info. It was she who disclosed the truth about his "back injury". Plus, she opened her home to him and all evident pertinent information was at his fingertips.

[Golden Arm Kid]

Linda knows. That's where he got the info. It was she who disclosed the truth about his "back injury". Plus, she opened her home to him and all evident pertinent information was at his fingertips.

That's crazy man lol. Idk how to feel if true but I could only imagine in order for Bruce to injure his back SO BAD during sex that he would be out from exercise for a year, never be thought to walk or train martial arts again, ect all due to an experience having sex...well all I can say is that leads me to believe that eitehr that guy is lying or Bruce was into some C-C-C-R-A-Z-Y Kama Sutra stuff lol.

[sdog2006]

I respect your opinion but I personally doubt that or at least based on comparisons of what Bruce looked like post-Fist of Fury.

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/galleries/fofonset/pic0107.jpg

Bruce looks very similar in terms of physique when comparing this lat spread from behind-the-scenes/promotional stills from Fist of Fury to his lat spread in Way of the Dragon. The difference maker I believe he added a bit more muscle mass I think. He looked little wider in WotD. I still think the difference from FoF to WotD is minimal. Bruce had definetely imroved his physique but not tremendously. Nowhere near enough for steroid allegations. I think we just never got a decent chance to see Bruce's muscularity in FoF and even most of TBB because we never got to see him pose or flex his muscles in front of the camera for a film. I think WotD really showed just how muscular Bruce was and it opened a lot of eyes.

EDIT:

For comparison's sake here are some pics from WotD that show his lat spread

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/galleries/wayonset/way079.jpg

and of course

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/galleries/waydvd/pic484.jpg

Unless you want to make the arguement that Bruce was on steroids from FoF and earlier. I have nothing to disprove that. All I can say is that I think Bruce would have had to weigh more than he did (140-150 lbs on average? 160 at the most he'd ever weighed?) in order for me to be convinced of steroid use. Idk it's just the way I feel although I can see why other people suspect it.

Hi Mate

The lat spread was there from when he was a teenager but I get your point. I'm speaking mainly of his core definition. In Fist of Fury he looks superb, he always did lets face it, but in WOTD the cut at the top of his abdominal muscles is just ridiculous and all in his build looks totally different to me. When it came to Enter the Dragon (Samo fight) he had muscle definition that shouldn't even exist.

It's also a common assumption that steroids increase your weight. They can if you train to increase muscle mass but you can also maintain a similar weight or even lose weight if that's your goal. I don't know if you're a boxing fan but Fernando Vargas (former world champion) campaigned at 154lbs and fought Felix Trinidad, he came in on weight and lost in a great fight. Two years later he fought Oscar De La Hoya at the same weight class and his body was SHREDDED, nothing like normal, he was tested and fined for steroid abuse. Didn't do him any good, he got knocked out anyway:wink:

Steroids in the seventies didn't have the same notorious rep they have now. I honestly think that Bruce would have used these in a very nonchalant manner and just relied on them to make him a better athlete. They weren't even called perfromance enhancing drugs in those days - after all it's almost 40 years ago.

Warm Regards

[Son Of A Gun]

Yes, if anyone would know this stuff it would be Tom, but that doesn't mean he's telling the truth. He could have just made a bare face lie. I guess we'll never know.

[The Dragon]

That's crazy man lol. Idk how to feel if true but I could only imagine in order for Bruce to injure his back SO BAD during sex that he would be out from exercise for a year, never be thought to walk or train martial arts again, ect all due to an experience having sex...well all I can say is that leads me to believe that eitehr that guy is lying or Bruce was into some C-C-C-R-A-Z-Y Kama Sutra stuff lol.

No, you're misunderstanding the fact. The injury was never that serious to begin with. Lee and Linda made up the severity of his injury. The medical disclosures indicated it was no more than a sprain and Bruce was treated for it. They told others the story of him injuring himself to make him seem he was overcoming something more serious than implied. He enjoyed the cortisone shots and continued to find excuses to return to see Dr. Tanney for the injections. Bruce was a hypochondriac. It's also why he fell victim to substance abuse. People like that are very susceptible to what he did.

[Son Of A Gun]

So Bruce wasn't unable to train properly for 6 months and the doctor's never said "You won't ever be able to do your martial arts again" ?

I don't get why Linda or Bruce would make that up. Bit weird.

I'm so lost.

Makes me laugh what a big deal they made of it in the movie "Dragon".

All over a sprain from having sex!

But then again, practically the whole "Dragon -The Bruce Lee Story" is bullshit and dramatised anyway.

[greenbamboo]

bruce had trouble with his back for the rest of his life after the injury (damaged 4th sacral nerve). he had to rest it after doing fight scenes and he had a message chair.

[Golden Arm Kid]

No, you're misunderstanding the fact. The injury was never that serious to begin with. Lee and Linda made up the severity of his injury. The medical disclosures indicated it was no more than a sprain and Bruce was treated for it. They told others the story of him injuring himself to make him seem he was overcoming something more serious than implied. He enjoyed the cortisone shots and continued to find excuses to return to see Dr. Tanney for the injections. Bruce was a hypochondriac. It's also why he fell victim to substance abuse. People like that are very susceptible to what he did.

Is that a fact though my good man?

[Golden Arm Kid]

Hi Mate

The lat spread was there from when he was a teenager but I get your point. I'm speaking mainly of his core definition. In Fist of Fury he looks superb, he always did lets face it, but in WOTD the cut at the top of his abdominal muscles is just ridiculous and all in his build looks totally different to me. When it came to Enter the Dragon (Samo fight) he had muscle definition that shouldn't even exist.

It's also a common assumption that steroids increase your weight. They can if you train to increase muscle mass but you can also maintain a similar weight or even lose weight if that's your goal. I don't know if you're a boxing fan but Fernando Vargas (former world champion) campaigned at 154lbs and fought Felix Trinidad, he came in on weight and lost in a great fight. Two years later he fought Oscar De La Hoya at the same weight class and his body was SHREDDED, nothing like normal, he was tested and fined for steroid abuse. Didn't do him any good, he got knocked out anyway:wink:

Steroids in the seventies didn't have the same notorious rep they have now. I honestly think that Bruce would have used these in a very nonchalant manner and just relied on them to make him a better athlete. They weren't even called perfromance enhancing drugs in those days - after all it's almost 40 years ago.

Warm Regards

Ah I see where you're coming from.

Btw are you sure that's from Lee's teenage years? I got my pics from this site's gallery

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/galleries/fofonset/fofonset.html

It has a lot of behind-the-scenes photos and whatnot and shows Bruce with fellow cast members like Robert Baker on the same set he's posing in on the photo I previously posted. Then again I don't know how old Bruce was when he filmed FoF.

And I didn't know that about steroids. Thanks for the info man!

I personally don't see a tremendous difference in Bruce's physique from FoF to WotD. The big improvements from what I can see were on his abdominals (like you said) and his back. It looks like some mass was added and/or body fat was burned. Lee's back from that angle definitely has more cut to it and Lee's abs in WotD definitely come out more. Again, imagining Bruce could improve upon his body/physique inside 9-10 months considering what the before (if my FoF pic is correct) and after (same pose in WotD) pics look like then imo I don't think it's completely preposterous to think that it would not be possible to do that without steroid use.

[sdog2006]

Ah I see where you're coming from.

Btw are you sure that's from Lee's teenage years? I got my pics from this site's gallery

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/galleries/fofonset/fofonset.html

It has a lot of behind-the-scenes photos and whatnot and shows Bruce with fellow cast members like Robert Baker on the same set he's posing in on the photo I previously posted. Then again I don't know how old Bruce was when he filmed FoF.

And I didn't know that about steroids. Thanks for the info man!

I personally don't see a tremendous difference in Bruce's physique from FoF to WotD. The big improvements from what I can see were on his abdominals (like you said) and his back. It looks like some mass was added and/or body fat was burned. Lee's back from that angle definitely has more cut to it and Lee's abs in WotD definitely come out more. Again, imagining Bruce could improve upon his body/physique inside 9-10 months considering what the before (if my FoF pic is correct) and after (same pose in WotD) pics look like then imo I don't think it's completely preposterous to think that it would not be possible to do that without steroid use.

Hi Bro

I saw a pic of Bruce, he was 18 at the most, and was doing the lat pose. It's one of these muscle groups where you've either got it or you haven't. I have a big lat spread and have had since I was in my teens. It helps immensely with exercises like dead hangs etc but I couldn't even tell you how I developed it lol.

What about Enter the Dragon, particularly the Samo fight. Do you think that physique looks natural?

[Son Of A Gun]

Fairly heavy weights. 10 - 13 reps, eating loads of protein and hardly any carbs. Injections of some kind of steroid from the doctor and taking diuretics to make his skin hug tight to the muscles. Yeah?

So, no, not 100% natural.

He still had work seriously hard to get those muscles though, as anyone who works out will know.

But who knows? That kind of body is obtainable naturally I would say, but I think Bruce wanted to get it as quick as possible, ready for ETD filming.