PanMedia Bootleg Update

[Kung Foolery]

I quit buying PanMedia because the dvds are crap and they always skip or stop at some point.

PanMedia dvds are doo-doo on a stick.

Not a good look.

Give me a quality boot with quality dubs that plays thru with no skips and I might be down.

[Killer Meteor]

You guys are aware that supporting the likes of Panmedia prevents us from seeing decent releases of many films, far beyond the Shaws. Some people are just incredibly selfish

[Linn1]

and here comes another LONG post:

The issue as I see it, is some fans are still living in a state of mind where they think buying bootlegs aren't doing any harm, without updating their knowledge of the situation in the US over the last few years. Very simply, if bootlegs had not invaded the US market place in stores and online prior to the announcement Celestial were releasing the Shaw Brothers films, the events happening now, deals being made for Shaw and other films by US companies, would have occurred years ago. Had the titles not been devalued from years of bootlegs and recent DVD bootleg releases, Tai Seng would have made a deal for the whole package. The price Celestial was asking for wasn't outrageous if we're talking a collection of a couple of hundred unreleased films and about a hundred very well known hits. But they weren't, they were dealing with a couple of hundred unreleased films and a hundred well bootlegged titles that most fans had. This means the base sales they could expect were unknown, they were too many unknown films for the price, and so the deal wasn't done.

In a market sense it's like this, what is the worth of something that everyone has? Not a lot. What is the worth of something no one has? Priceless. Couple that with the fact a title setting on a shelf at Best Buy or the like is flagged by buyers so it won't be bought again for a period of time, and you have an ever dwindling list of titles that can get in stores. This is the reason why you see these bootleg boxsets of Video Asia titles now, because they won't buy the titles again. But if they put them in a boxset under a new title with a cheaper overall price, you've got a new product! This is also why you get DVD labels you don't take the films seriously and won't spend money on making the best product. If you expect to not sell many copies from the start, why would you work hard on a release?

On a cultural level, years of poor quality releases, often boots, caused the film to be considered disposable by critics, and to an extent, fans alike. This also had the result of making fans believe bootlegs were a fine end to a means. That's wasn't a poor choice in the 80s and 90s where it was impossible to see these films. But we are not living in those times any longer. We live in a period where the Internet gives bootleggers instant info and access to everything they need to make product that looks just like a legit releases. It also gives fans the chance to have info on these releases and to choose what they support with their money. By these films being put out by legit (or semi-legit) distributors into legit stores and malls, they take up whatever space could be used by actual legit releases. This in turn makes the likelihood of legit releases less and less.

I've talked about this subject BILLIONS of times and pretty much have had the same conversation each time. It ends up something like this: "Fans want their films NOW, and don't care what happens in the future. If a (insert legit company here) wants to put out a (insert Asian studio name here) label in a year, it doesn't matter right now, they'll buy it when it comes out. In the process, fans buy a bunch of (insert Asian studio name here) boots (online, in store, in mall from homeless man who swears they're not boots) and a kung fu label doesn't look so hot to (insert legit company here) any longer. They drop the idea and move to (insert genre here) films." The problem is, that legit release the fans say they'll buy, rarely ever comes. It's not because the production companies don't want the money of the DVD companies, and it's certainly not because the DVD companies don't want the fan's money, it's because the bootlegger has made the marketplace a “scorched earth” where legit product doesn't have a chance and fans have bought into it completely.

And I want to be clear, the idea that a fan who has some VHS tapes they bought years ago at a flea market somehow has some effect now is ridiculousness. The issue isn't trading or selling copies of the films one on one or even on kung fu sites. That's a drop in the bucket. The issue has always been bootlegs getting into actual stores and online shops, in the process taking up shelf space that could be for a legit product and allowing that product to take root in the market. Let alone deals made with rental companies like Blockbuster and the like. When a movie can be bootlegged and show up in a Best Buy or other store, thus making sure that store won't carry that title again for at least three or four years in some cases, that's the problem here. When a bootleg company can put out a dvd and have it in store selling for seven dollars; but a legit company can't get in the same store selling legit $12 DVDs of titles they've hunted down the rights for, the materials, remastered, etc., that's also a problem. What we U.S. fans usually get from legit companies is two or three releases, then the line is canceled. The idea that Pan Media or any bootleg company is just a good source until the real product comes out is antiquated. They want become the only source (which is what they want) for the foreseeable future because it serves their ends, not because they're helping the fans.

I'm a big fan of these films, I love seeing that newly discovered old school gem just as much as the next guy. But why do fans have to continue being led by the nose? Bootleggers are the reason why you haven't gotten what you wanted, yet you still take up for them like they're some kind of old friend. There's not one film they bootleg that can't be found elsewhere via the fans. Ditto for every bootleg outfit. Redsun has copied dvds from others, as others have copied from them.

And if anyone honestly thinks that companies trying to release these in the US are cutting some back room deal to get a “cut” of bootleggers profits, that's insane. If it ever got out that happened, the company would never be able to deal with any legit company again, distributor or production company. Their business would be ruined. Let alone, who in their right mind would waste all the money in legal fees keeping a lawyer on retainer to deal with the rights and contracts, when they're going to make sure they don't get the films in the first place by helping the bootleggers?

Bootleggers have NOT helped fans here, if anything they've hurt them over and over again. The surprise from me is there's still fans like those posting on this thread who insist this is all fine. Fans want what they want RIGHT NOW, I get that. And it doesn't matter to them it may hurt their chance to see legit releases anytime soon, I hear that too. But why knowingly support people who do nothing but make money off the hardwork and effort of others by stealing transfers, soundtracks, subtitles, dubs, sometimes entire releases, etc. Then turn right around and screw the fans at every turn by undercutting companies that want to release the films makes no sense. I can understand wanting to see the films, but when you can trade for ANYTHING you want, it's defeating the idea of even being a fan of the films IMO to support people you know are putting out bootlegs that ruin your chances of seeing real releases.

[Righteous Master]

Yes, it was long. But is was also good to hear it coming from you. Thank you. The way I see it, those who make up excuses are doing so to defend bad choices on their part and to TRY to save face. BTW, just out of pure curiousity, who turned you on to this thread?

[The Dragon]

Since joining this forum I've learned a great deal about the companies who flood the market with their bootleg films. Some I originally thought to be legit were nothing more than substandard. As a Home theater enthusiast, I totally support quality over cheaper products and appreaciate the knowledge I've picked up here. As for Celestial, Dragon Dynasty, Joy Sales, HKL, and others, I fully support their effors in bringing us higher quality products, we may have never otherwise been able to enjoy.

Simply my two cents...