What is the worst MA film you have watched?

[KUNG FU BOB]

at the risk of offending the gods and angels, I really didn't like Gordon Liu in Hero's of the East. It wasn't the worst ever but it comes to mind when I think of bad movies ( trying not to offend Gordon!!)

HEROES OF THE EAST may be my favorite SB film, and I loved Gordon's performance in it. I am not trying to be argumentative, but simply (extremely) curious- could you please tell me what you didn't like about it? I really want to hear your point of view, as it's clearly so different than mine.

Yeah, me not liking Five Elements Ninjas is probably the real cause behind my computer problems. I appease the Shaw Gods and their Celestial Pictures nanwu with my humble sacrifice of several gray market dvds, taels of gold and silver (and whatever donuts / sweets they put on those platters), perhaps they will forgive me - after all, I have been most loyal with the payment offerings lately. Or they could sick Chen Hui Min on me and I will not fight...because you know that man could probably kill me with his smile.

Though I love it's ridiculous, overblown comic-book style, I can understand you not being a fan of FIVE ELEMENT NINJA. It is definitely not for everyone. Still, I admit I was surprised to see it brought up in a thread about 'worst' movies.

Or they could sick Chen Hui Min on me and I will not fight...because you know that man could probably kill me with his smile.

Thought I'd mention... I guess 'Chen Hui-Min' is how his name appears in the credits for FEN, but typically fans know him as Chan Wai-Man, or Michael Chan. Though he has no less than 17 aka's on HKMDB, including 'Chen Hui-Min'!

and, yes, NINE DEMONS is pretty darn bad (not even Lu Fengs' awesome fake beard could save that one), tied for FIVE ELEMENTS as the sole Shaw film that just makes me sad in its epic woeful awfulness.

Remembering watching NINE DEMONS is sort of like the cinematic equivalent of remembering a time when I was so sick I couldn't stop vomiting. To go from some of the most exquisite production values ever seen in kung fu films during Shaw's early days, to this mess and those damn plastic skulls... Ugh!

For me, TEN TIGERS falls flat is when the younger guns are on screen away from Ti, the Venoms etc. It's not a terrible movie, but Ti and the Venoms have made more entertaining films. Philip Kwok is absolutely hilarious as Beggar Su.

I agree completely. TEN TIGERS OF KWANGTUNG should've been one of the best SB films, with a terrific cast, and a story involving some of the greatest kung fu masters to ever live, but sadly, it was not to be. I can't remember all of the details, but someone provided the reasons for this over at KFC. I believe it was actually two unfinished films that were merged together to become one, with a hastily rewritten script. Hence the very good, and not so great elements in the film.

And yes, Phillip Kwok was perfect as a young Beggar So.

Bit of trivia: I've read that the 'Ten Tigers' didn't all actually live at the same time!

I have a question staying on the topic of worst ever. It is a HYPOTHETICAL question a friend of a friend of mine asked someone a long time ago who is in no way related to anyone I know or ever will know.

Is it a bad thing if one was to not like Ninja's at all? And since it is not ME please do not use the smiley with the finger up nor call the wrath of the Shaw gods (Monkeyfu I'm looking at you!!) or especially do NOT call the Abbot or Kung Fu Bob because it that person was to not like Ninja's, and I'm not saying they don't, it may be against the TOS and they could be banned for life if they were ever to be considering signing up for this forum.

I'm JUST CURIOUS !!

I can understand why you might not like 'ninja films' because there are a lot of really bad ones out there. But if you want to see some that might chance your mind, I'd suggest the following:

17 NINJA (1963, Japan, aka. Jushichinin no Ninja; Seventeen Ninja)

SHINOBI NO MONO (1962, Japan, aka. Band of Ninja; Ninja, A Band of Assassins)

THE 3RD NINJA (1964, aka. The Third Ninja)

SAMURAI SPY (1965, Japan)

NINJA IN THE DRAGON’S DEN (1982, Hong Kong)

NINJA 2: SHADOW OF A TEAR (2013, aka. Ninja: Shadow of a Tear; Ninja 2)

[Guest Anonymous]

Well let's see. To not like Ninja movies is one thing, but to not like all Ninja's is going a bit far. I would tell this friend of a friend that they should really try not to hate any one group of people. Ninja's are people too and have feelings just like the rest of us. Right now there is a Ninja reading this post with a shuriken shaped tear rolling down his cheek.

HAHAHAHA!!!

[Guest Anonymous]

I think Bob would if he s(h)aw how ridiculous this exchange is.

Wine is overrated, I'll take some of that potion Egg Shen was passing around instead please.

At any rate, my avatar has transformed thanks to the Killer Doctor's administrations and I will happily sit by my opinion of 5EN.

(Buggers off...)

Great avatar even if a flimsy breakable blade can kill it....I mean serious, that warrior who had the K-mart quality sword that broke can kill that dude...I on the other hand have the laughing sword of kung fu forum comedy (which is an acquired taste for some secretive types) which is about as equal to the 2nd dragon sword (not the first one that was gold).

And wine maybe be overrated but it is fun to drink because we are allowed to make a mess and no one will care. but yes if you that potion go ahead. Either way, you can have your opinion and I believe by now the shaw god's have forgiven you. Especially for the pun you started off with! lol

[Guest Anonymous]

You are so right Monkeyfu I agree with what you have said in that it is unforgivable to hate a whole group of people. I swear that before I would ever let anyone I know or will ever know or may even ever walk by speak ill of a Ninja and not stop them I would (that would not be me I would get a Samurai to sacrifice themselves for the Ninja's honor - and that NEVER happens!):

to avenge the wrong done to their honor.

but some ninjas are actually evil so its okay to hate them. Just not the good ninjas like Sho kasugi, you cannot hate him. If you do I will assassinate you. Oh and you cant hate Franco Nero either....as long as he is in his white ninja outfit that is.

[Lady Jin Szu-Yi]

Though I love it's ridiculous, overblown comic-book style, I can understand you not being a fan of FIVE ELEMENT NINJA. It is definitely not for everyone. Still, I admit I was surprised to see it brought up in a thread about 'worst' movies.

You know it's not so much the comic book factor of it, but my character logic asserted itself: Lo's character being that blind, Ricky suddenly remembering he had some Japanese knot training AFTER everyone was wiped out... if that was mentioned earlier on I think I would have liked it more, even with the McDonald-land Fruit pie tree Ninjas.

Or they could sick Chen Hui Min on me and I will not fight...because you know that man could probably kill me with his smile.

Thought I'd mention... I guess 'Chen Hui-Min' is how his name appears in the credits for FEN, but typically fans know him as Chan Wai-Man, or Michael Chan. Though he has no less than 17 aka's on HKMDB, including 'Chen Hui-Min'!

Ah, thank you. I was using a Cantonese spelling, I'll use Chan Wai-Man for clarification.

Remembering watching NINE DEMONS is sort of like the cinematic equivalent of remembering a time when I was so sick I couldn't stop vomiting. To go from some of the most exquisite production values ever seen in kung fu films during Shaw's early days, to this mess and those damn plastic skulls... Ugh!

Yeah that sums up it nicely.

For me, TEN TIGERS falls flat is when the younger guns are on screen away from Ti, the Venoms etc. It's not a terrible movie, but Ti and the Venoms have made more entertaining films. Philip Kwok is absolutely hilarious as Beggar Su.

I agree completely. TEN TIGERS OF KWANGTUNG should've been one of the best SB films, with a terrific cast, and a story involving some of the greatest kung fu masters to ever live, but sadly, it was not to be. I can't remember all of the details, but someone provided the reasons for this over at KFC. I believe it was actually two unfinished films that were merged together to become one, with a hastily rewritten script. Hence the very good, and not so great elements in the film.

And yes, Phillip Kwok was perfect as a young Beggar So.

Bit of trivia: I've read that the 'Ten Tigers' didn't all actually live at the same time!

Oh that makes sense, two different films and a rushed script. And interesting about the actual masters.

Personally, I am not a ninja fan but I can watch them if I enjoy the other elements of the movie.

Great avatar even if a flimsy breakable blade can kill it....I mean serious, that warrior who had the K-mart quality sword that broke can kill that dude...I on the other hand have the laughing sword of kung fu forum comedy (which is an acquired taste for some secretive types) which is about as equal to the 2nd dragon sword (not the first one that was gold).

And wine maybe be overrated but it is fun to drink because we are allowed to make a mess and no one will care. but yes if you that potion go ahead. Either way, you can have your opinion and I believe by now the shaw god's have forgiven you. Especially for the pun you started off with! lol

LOL...

And there was much rejoicing...

[Guest Anonymous]

LOL...

And there was much rejoicing...

The end! Another Shaw Production.

[Hei Meigui]

HEROES OF THE EAST may be my favorite SB film, and I loved Gordon's performance in it. I am not trying to be argumentative, but simply (extremely) curious- could you please tell me what you didn't like about it? I really want to hear your point of view, as it's clearly so different than mine.

I can understand why you might not like 'ninja films' because there are a lot of really bad ones out there. But if you want to see some that might chance your mind, I'd suggest the following:

17 NINJA (1963, Japan, aka. Jushichinin no Ninja; Seventeen Ninja)

SHINOBI NO MONO (1962, Japan, aka. Band of Ninja; Ninja, A Band of Assassins)

THE 3RD NINJA (1964, aka. The Third Ninja)

SAMURAI SPY (1965, Japan)

NINJA IN THE DRAGON’S DEN (1982, Hong Kong)

NINJA 2: SHADOW OF A TEAR (2013, aka. Ninja: Shadow of a Tear; Ninja 2)

Brother Bob and Monkeyfu,

About Hero's of the East.

First I love Gordon so I just bought it outright, no renting, bought it sight unseen. I don't even think that I saw the trailer.

I can see why you all consider it to be a great film. It has awesome fight scenes which really showcase not only Gordon's abilities, but the 8 different Japanese styles. Each fight was exciting and I especially loved the part where Gordon and Norman's characters coaxed the Drunken Fist technique out of the drunken master!

My criticisms are very subjective around the female character (not the actress) in the film.

It was understood that this was an arranged marriage that he was not fond of but she seemed up to it and enthusiastic. I think that it bothered me that in the beginning she was strong and feisty even when they were getting on her about not being lady like and not doing "lady Kung fu" (hence the need for the boob shot to show how uncouth a woman doing men's martial arts is). Even though Gordon's character took every opportunity to criticize her and demean her styles of fighting, and made sure they were all aware of the fact that he was not fond of having to marry her - when she gets an attitude and acts unhappy then there is a problem. Like how they treated his dealing with her when she refused to eat "properly". (I'm not a fan of women being "put" in their place !! )

So after all this, including misunderstandings about him potentially abusing her due to the sounds she is making when she practices, and her being so destructive because he won't "let" her have a place to practice her skills, the twists and turns got annoying but I see how they build up to the fights with the Japanese Masters.

Her character goes downhill from there when she leaves and is home in Japan, all of a sudden she becomes the submissive woman that she was NOT back in China. She is not able to speak up and correct the situation (I know it would have kept the fights from happening so it's crucial to the story!!) but I feel like she got all submissive and wimpy after that. Where was the spunk when it was really needed? I know that they had to fight him because they felt their honor was offended, but I like story lines like in that one movie where the hero has to fight his way out through the different family members rooms to be able to leave the "family". At least in that case the woman was heroic and went against her family and decided to fight with him.( Temple of the Red Lotus/The sword and the Lute/The Twin Swords I think had that story line) She just seemed like a means to an end which was the opportunity to have the fights and that her character was not really important after that.

Like I said my impression of the Kung fu was totally different when I saw this film. I had seen women competently fighting like Cheng Pei Pei and not just fizzling out, or women who were fighting equally like in Martial Club, or even in Shaolin vs Wu Tang. Also before I got "Shaw infected" , I was watching more modern martial arts/Wuxia films like with Michelle Yeoh, Zhiang Ziyi, Zhao Wei, Zhou Xun, Briggette Lin, etc. So that really affected my view of this film.

So I do not think this was a "worst" film, it was more her character was not to my liking, but that said, I acknowledge my impression is based on one viewing and upon seeing it again I may have a different impression. Like I said the fights for were awesome, the Ninjitsu portion was very cartoonish to me though!!. (There I go disparaging ninja's again , )!

I do appreciate the recommendation for the Ninja films you listed. I think the ninja thing is that I feel I haven't seen any good Japanese films recently and when I did, most of them were around Samurai. I used to love anything Akiro Kurasawa/Toshiro Mifune did.

I will open my heart to the Ninja's because it is a good point that since I put that out there they could be anywhere at anytime and I am very vulnerable to attack. I will put it out there now that I do HATE Zombies, that is definite and not up for debate!! ,

But I have the redeeming qualities that I love Pirates, and Vampires!

Plus not to throw Lady under the bus.......but...

Personally, I am not a ninja fan but I can watch them if I enjoy the other elements of the movie.

[Hei Meigui]

So why the dislike for Ninja's? Did you have a bad movie watching experience during a Ninja movie? Or is it just that you don't like how they sneak around and kill people before anyone knows what's going on?

Uhhhhmmm there is that!!!

[Lady Jin Szu-Yi]

Plus not to throw Lady under the bus.......but...

as she imitates the Sheriff with a Thousand Faces Hai Tao (rolls under bus grabs onto underbelly and comes out unscathed.) Looks for cider jar because wine just will not do after being thrown under bus...

Ninja in the Deadly Trap: I very much enjoyed Lu Feng, Philip Kwok and Chiang Sheng kicking ninja butt. Added bonus: Ti Lung.

[Hei Meigui]

So why the dislike for Ninja's? Did you have a bad movie watching experience during a Ninja movie? Or is it just that you don't like how they sneak around and kill people before anyone knows what's going on?

This is also the thing that makes people not take ninjas seriously!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Ninja_Warrior

[DragonClaws]

They have also made a U.K version of the hit Japanese show Hei. I don't mind it but I cant say Ive watched it that much.

[MonkeyFu]

Brother Bob and Monkeyfu,

My criticisms are very subjective around the female character (not the actress) in the film.

It was understood that this was an arranged marriage that he was not fond of but she seemed up to it and enthusiastic. I think that it bothered me that in the beginning she was strong and feisty even when they were getting on her about not being lady like and not doing "lady Kung fu" (hence the need for the boob shot to show how uncouth a woman doing men's martial arts is). Even though Gordon's character took every opportunity to criticize her and demean her styles of fighting, and made sure they were all aware of the fact that he was not fond of having to marry her - when she gets an attitude and acts unhappy then there is a problem. Like how they treated his dealing with her when she refused to eat "properly". (I'm not a fan of women being "put" in their place !! )

So after all this, including misunderstandings about him potentially abusing her due to the sounds she is making when she practices, and her being so destructive because he won't "let" her have a place to practice her skills, the twists and turns got annoying but I see how they build up to the fights with the Japanese Masters.

Her character goes downhill from there when she leaves and is home in Japan, all of a sudden she becomes the submissive woman that she was NOT back in China. She is not able to speak up and correct the situation (I know it would have kept the fights from happening so it's crucial to the story!!) but I feel like she got all submissive and wimpy after that. Where was the spunk when it was really needed? I know that they had to fight him because they felt their honor was offended, but I like story lines like in that one movie where the hero has to fight his way out through the different family members rooms to be able to leave the "family". At least in that case the woman was heroic and went against her family and decided to fight with him.( Temple of the Red Lotus/The sword and the Lute/The Twin Swords I think had that story line) She just seemed like a means to an end which was the opportunity to have the fights and that her character was not really important after that.

Like I said my impression of the Kung fu was totally different when I saw this film. I had seen women competently fighting like Cheng Pei Pei and not just fizzling out, or women who were fighting equally like in Martial Club, or even in Shaolin vs Wu Tang. Also before I got "Shaw infected" , I was watching more modern martial arts/Wuxia films like with Michelle Yeoh, Zhiang Ziyi, Zhao Wei, Zhou Xun, Briggette Lin, etc. So that really affected my view of this film.

So I do not think this was a "worst" film, it was more her character was not to my liking, but that said, I acknowledge my impression is based on one viewing and upon seeing it again I may have a different impression. Like I said the fights for were awesome, the Ninjitsu portion was very cartoonish to me though!!. (There I go disparaging ninja's again , )!

It's interesting to read your take on her character, but I think you might have a different view if you give it a second chance.

She is definitely feisty and very fond of her culture and the Japanese martial arts, but she is also unbelievably disrespectful (especially given the time period and considering the cultures involved). She trashes her new home, insults her new husband and his martial arts, and makes him lose face in front of others in the community. At first, Gordon's character is not only very forgiving of her repeated offences and even wants her to retain her culture within the house, he also tries to show her why Chinese martial arts have merit. She has no interest and continues to push him. Only then does he start to say things and act in what could be considered an insulting manner.

Oddly enough, it's her use of the Ninja arts that really causes the rift. She physically hurts him with a sneaky ninja attack, and when he calls her out on how he feels it's a cowardly art, she just ups and leaves to Japan without telling anyone!

One of the things I love about this film can be summed up in one word - respect. This is something that you just don't see very often in Kung Fu films. It's refreshing to see a movie display the different styles with a healthy respect for all of them. The message is that it's not about which culture is better, but more about learning from one another and understanding the good points each culture and style has to offer.

Please, for the sake of appeasing the Shaw Gods, give this movie another chance and let me know what you think.

[Bus]

Bruce's films are overrated *runs*

[Secret Executioner]

Bruce's films are overrated *runs*

Well, shit. Here we go for a few more pages of useless bickering.

That said, I wasn't too impressed with Big Boss and Way Of The Dragon never did much to me (the Chuck Norris fight is pretty much all I really enjoyed). I love Fist Of Fury, Enter The Dragon and Game Of Death though.

[Bus]

Lmao somebody posted that on KFC and meant it.. I think they're very good but *smirk*

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, shit. Here we go for a few more pages of useless bickering.

That said, I wasn't too impressed with Big Boss and Way Of The Dragon never did much to me (the Chuck Norris fight is pretty much all I really enjoyed). I love Fist Of Fury, Enter The Dragon and Game Of Death though.

You know I can agree with you. I think we don't watch Bruce movies because they are great, but we just watch them to see his masterful skills in movement. If only he lived longer and made some epic fight movies and kept his Jeet Kun Do philosophy in his movies it would be some awesome stuff. But what happened happened, he is dead...

[Guest Anonymous]

I am sorry, but I just cannot...for the life me unerstand why ANYONE would not like Heroes of the East AKA "Shaolin Challenges Ninja." That is one of the best movies Shaw Brothers made and the story is so great and the character's just endearing and entertaining. I love the way his wife is so tough and hardcore an the bickering only to later learn to respect each other and their cultures and martial arts. And the cultural misunderstandings Gordon Lui's character had with the Samurai. Just so much deep stuff in that movie. Watching movies from a feminists perspective is incredibly blind.

[Hei Meigui]

as she imitates the Sheriff with a Thousand Faces Hai Tao (rolls under bus grabs onto underbelly and comes out unscathed.) Looks for cider jar because wine just will not do after being thrown under bus...

Ninja in the Deadly Trap: I very much enjoyed Lu Feng, Philip Kwok and Chiang Sheng kicking ninja butt. Added bonus: Ti Lung.

lol!! good use of your cat (ninja) like reflexes!! I actually thought you might use your lighting(sp) skills and fly over the bus altogether!! I knew you would be okay, I don't want to hurt the other female in our Brotherhood(Peoplehood??!! ) of Shaolin!! And I guess it actually would have been throwing you under the Pedicab!! Besides you had already drank that poison so you are invincible!!

[Hei Meigui]

I was going to bring up the name also I didn't know who he was but damn..its not just his smile that could kill you.he used to be a real cop then turned #2 Triad leader as well as actor. I'm scared of what or who else could be behinds that smile!!!

[Hei Meigui]

Oddly enough, it's her use of the Ninja arts that really causes the rift. She physically hurts him with a sneaky ninja attack, and when he calls her out on how he feels it's a cowardly art, she just ups and leaves to Japan without telling anyone!

One of the things I love about this film can be summed up in one word - respect. This is something that you just don't see very often in Kung Fu films. It's refreshing to see a movie display the different styles with a healthy respect for all of them. The message is that it's not about which culture is better, but more about learning from one another and understanding the good points each culture and style has to offer.

Please, for the sake of appeasing the Shaw Gods, give this movie another chance and let me know what you think.

I will definitely give the film another chance, Like I said I thought the fight scenes were incredible as there were so many styles presented.

Now in the statement about Ninja skills being disrespectful ...that is a reason to not like ninja techniques because of that perception. But I know she does warn him of what to expect for the last fight so he at least can prepare himself.

You are right it is about respect and face and I think she felt the same way that she was being disrespected. I think though that in all of the films there are many times when the loss of face is caused by a woman not keeping her place as well as for other insults. I like how that issue plays out in many ways but sometimes it is one sided where when it is about the woman she is blamed. Like in Blood Brother's, when the affair happens I think that Ti Lung bears more responsibility for that not that she didn't play a part by continuing after resisting for a while. I was actually surprised in that film they let her live, but the did put all of the blame of the brotherhood being broken by her. No matter that Ti Lung's character turned into a megalomaniac and got his "brother" killed so he could be with her. That was not something she conspired to do. Most of the time with face in the films where the woman loses face she dies or kills herself, whereas the men may get revenge by killing the ones who wronged them. This is not in every movie though. I really have an understanding of the hierarchy of Chinese culture from my recent studies and through seeing how it all plays out in films. This is also why so many women have to end up dressing as men to be taken seriously in their revenge attempts, but usually end up going back to their ladylike appearance in the end.

But back to Hero's of the East, Yes in the end they did end up respecting each others cultures and resolve the conflicts amicably even with the one master not having to commit Seppaku.

It actually really may have just come down to not liking Gordon in a with hair!!! I just can't with that!!

[Hei Meigui]

I am sorry, but I just cannot...for the life me unerstand why ANYONE would not like Heroes of the East AKA "Shaolin Challenges Ninja." That is one of the best movies Shaw Brothers made and the story is so great and the character's just endearing and entertaining. I love the way his wife is so tough and hardcore an the bickering only to later learn to respect each other and their cultures and martial arts. And the cultural misunderstandings Gordon Lui's character had with the Samurai. Just so much deep stuff in that movie. Watching movies from a feminists perspective is incredibly blind.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "feminist" perspective. I watch for a Hei Meigui's perspective. I love lots of different types of films and judge them on their merit in MY eyes. If I was to be so biased and narrow minded to only focus on the treatment of women in film i would never like a Cheng Cheh film and Crippled Avengers is one of my top 5 Favorite films. The only woman in that film at all is the wife who dies within the first few minutes. Many of his films have that element and really have nothing but shirtless men. I could interpret then that those are "chick flick's" because that would appeal to many women because of that. I could say that to only watch a film from a "manist" perspective is wrong and narrow minded but everyone has their own likes and dislikes. (but then what does "manist" even mean??)There are many people who refer to some MA films as "chick flick" type films because there may be an element of romance that they say takes away from the time that could be used for fighting.

In an earlier thread about gratuitous nudity we discuss one of Ti Lung's films where a fish net full of nude dead women was pulled on board for no reason. It had nothing to do with the plot except for titillation. The rest of the film was exciting and I especially liked how they did all the relationships and loyalties with the characters bonding and intervening how they did to resolve the situation.

This is NOT an argument but just a direct response to what you indicated. It is not beneficial to criticize how anyone judges a film. It is beneficial to see all of the different perspectives and I will watch the film again to see it through a different perspective, forget about Gordon's wig and that annoying man, and enjoy the intricately choreographed fight scenes.

[Secret Executioner]

Can we cut the crap now with the attacks on people who do not share WhiteDragon's movie tastes ?!

[MonkeyFu]

You are right it is about respect and face and I think she felt the same way that she was being disrespected. I think though that in all of the films there are many times when the loss of face is caused by a woman not keeping her place as well as for other insults. I like how that issue plays out in many ways but sometimes it is one sided where when it is about the woman she is blamed. Like in Blood Brother's, when the affair happens I think that Ti Lung bears more responsibility for that not that she didn't play a part by continuing after resisting for a while. I was actually surprised in that film they let her live, but the did put all of the blame of the brotherhood being broken by her. No matter that Ti Lung's character turned into a megalomaniac and got his "brother" killed so he could be with her. That was not something she conspired to do. Most of the time with face in the films where the woman loses face she dies or kills herself, whereas the men may get revenge by killing the ones who wronged them. This is not in every movie though. I really have an understanding of the hierarchy of Chinese culture from my recent studies and through seeing how it all plays out in films. This is also why so many women have to end up dressing as men to be taken seriously in their revenge attempts, but usually end up going back to their ladylike appearance in the end.

And you are very right about the difference between how women were generally treated in Kung Fu films when causing a man to lose face vs. when a man was at fault. I think that is more rooted culture and the time period though. Hopefully that type of gender discrimination will only continue to become a thing of the past. Although I have my doubts about the general public these days and how far we have come with things like discrimination when I see how people act toward one another on message boards and in the news. But that is another topic!

Please post back when you have had a chance to watch it again. I'll be curious to see if you have any different opinions once you've watched it a second time.

[Bus]

We all have varying views and opinions. Makes us great. Has anyone seen Black Mask 2? Hopefully somebody else feels my pain

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm not sure what you mean by a "feminist" perspective. I watch for a Hei Meigui's perspective. I love lots of different types of films and judge them on their merit in MY eyes. If I was to be so biased and narrow minded to only focus on the treatment of women in film i would never like a Cheng Cheh film and Crippled Avengers is one of my top 5 Favorite films. The only woman in that film at all is the wife who dies within the first few minutes. Many of his films have that element and really have nothing but shirtless men. I could interpret then that those are "chick flick's" because that would appeal to many women because of that. I could say that to only watch a film from a "manist" perspective is wrong and narrow minded but everyone has their own likes and dislikes. (but then what does "manist" even mean??)There are many people who refer to some MA films as "chick flick" type films because there may be an element of romance that they say takes away from the time that could be used for fighting.

In an earlier thread about gratuitous nudity we discuss one of Ti Lung's films where a fish net full of nude dead women was pulled on board for no reason. It had nothing to do with the plot except for titillation. The rest of the film was exciting and I especially liked how they did all the relationships and loyalties with the characters bonding and intervening how they did to resolve the situation.

This is NOT an argument but just a direct response to what you indicated. It is not beneficial to criticize how anyone judges a film. It is beneficial to see all of the different perspectives and I will watch the film again to see it through a different perspective, forget about Gordon's wig and that annoying man, and enjoy the intricately choreographed fight scenes.

I wasn't calling anyone a feminist. You mentioned "I am not a feminist" so i was commenting on that as if anyone watching it from a feminists perspective is blind. Which it actually is. Not that you are watching it from that perspective exactly. And yes it is nice to see other perspectives on movies and opinions. It is fun. Even if they vehemently disagree with me. Apparently that is not allowed on this forum so I won't comment much about that.

I just think Heroes of the East is an amazing film and if you watch it again I am sure you will enjoy it. The entire relationship between them is so comedic and fun. He thinks he is better than her an a woman shoudlnt fight, but she is going to show him that women can kick ass and are tough and SHE DON'T CARE! lol its awesome. Then the entire mess with the cultural miscommunication. And the ending how it all wrapped up and no one had to die was awesome. Its different from all the death in other films. It is a light hearted film I find endearing.