Member KenHashibe Posted February 9, 2015 Member Share Posted February 9, 2015 Full review of mine on The Magic Blade. I also loved the Bastard Swordsman. Beautiful looking crazy wuxia. Easily worth watching and owning and rewatching. And then get the sequel. Awesome! Thanks for the reviews, especially your in-depth review of Magic Blade. Very informative read and it gets me excited. I'm a fan of both Ti Lung and Chor Yuen so I think I'm set. Another question: Does Bastard Swordsman end on a cliffhanger for the sequel? Do I need to watch both in order to complete the story? Thanks again. @ColdBishop Thank you too for your mini-reviews of the movies. I'm definitely looking forward to them. BTW You live in Portland, right? Are you going to see Dreadnaught at the Hollywood Theatre tomorrow night? If so, tell me how it goes (not here, but maybe on another thread). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 9, 2015 Member Share Posted February 9, 2015 Awesome! Thanks for the reviews, especially your in-depth review of Magic Blade. Very informative read and it gets me excited. I'm a fan of both Ti Lung and Chor Yuen so I think I'm set. Another question: Does Bastard Swordsman end on a cliffhanger for the sequel? Do I need to watch both in order to complete the story? Thanks again. ... To be honest I'm not quite sure. I'm blending in plot points from both films in my head. I'll have to recheck it. Forgot about this review from a friend of mine Duke on criterionforums.com: Bastard Swordsman (1983) Chin-Ku Lu - 4/5 Right away I could tell this was going to be a quality production. I like the more magical wu xia like The Magic Blade, so I was right at home here. I love the tale of the invalid servant being taught kung fu secretly. He takes so much abuse, but is easily one of the most powerful fighters on the grounds. His romance with the master's daughter was a bit annoying at times. She could seem rather cruel and too often went with the crowd mocking our hero, but at the same time he did come off as extremely pathetic oh so often. I realize it was a necessary cover, but it seemed like all considerations here were focused the big reveal of our hero, not on the path leading to that reveal. Not a big deal really, and I must be a good little audience member because I really ate it up once he was finally able to flex his skills for these jerks. The warring clans make up the bulk of the plot with the usual obsession over techniques. Some have reached their own 'tenth level', some have concealed certain weaknesses, and some cannot help but play dirty to establish which clan maintains the most effective technique. As expected it is the Bastard Swordsman who eventually carries on one of these techniques, something his secret lineage legitimizes. His father's powerful fighting skills combined with his mother's powerful magic prepare him for his final showdown, and it doesn't hurt that she holds the truth about the silk worm style. As I was a good way into this film I began to wonder if this film had any connections to Supreme Swordsman, but couldn't find any, at least nothing obvious. I suppose it was the case with a lot of these films in the 80's to be a little heavy on the chop-socky wire work. I like it, but found that it seemed a little cheap a bit too often in Bastard Swordsman, on top of being overused. It was also present in Supreme Swordsman, and it was the same type of techniques too, a lot of free spinning actors or objects swinging across the room. That film used it much more sparingly though, and it also felt more balanced with its heavy dose of long sword duels. Both films contain the terrible under-cranking I dislike so much, and both films only use it in a fraction of the scenes, which is strange. There didn't seem to be any story elements tied to the under-cranked scenes, and it made it feel as if there were multiple personalities behind the scenes making these decisions. In addition to these obviously physical effects, there is also a lot of superimposed magical effects on-screen. There are laser beams, bodies filled with glowing power, and dancing silkworm threads used quite frequently, and there are also several crude effects like actual light bulbs and colored smoke. The cocoon scene is quite over the top, but appreciated. It is all such a fun time and never feels too overused. I did ultimately feel like the final battle scenes could use a little more vanilla kung fu. It would both extend the effectiveness of the magical effects as well as make it all feel a little less repetitious. Overall a very strong Shaw entry, and easily one of the best of the more magical wu xia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted February 9, 2015 Member Share Posted February 9, 2015 Revisited The Five Venoms (1978) tonight. The action is really spectacular - the plot is okay, but clearly it's more action-oriented than plot-driven (though the build-up to the reveal of each Venom's secret identity is very nicely done, especially with Scorpion where you spend nearly all of the film wondering who he is). On a sidenote, I'm a bit bugged by the cover art: you can spot a snake, a centipede, but two other creatures look strange (they must be a scorpion and a toad) and the fifth one is a spider instead of the lizard/gecko... Guess with the Lizard on the picture, he's still here. But still it kinda bugged me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 9, 2015 Member Share Posted February 9, 2015 Revisited The Five Venoms (1978) tonight. ... I'm curious have you seen Crippled Avengers (aka Return of the Five Deadly Venoms)? Your post reminds me I need to revisit The Five Venoms. It was a film I liked at the time, but not as much as many other "venom films." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted February 9, 2015 Member Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm curious have you seen Crippled Avengers (aka Return of the Five Deadly Venoms)? Haven't seen this one, don't even have it. As far as Venoms go, I only have The Five Venoms, Invincible Shaolin and Two Champions Of Shaolin (one I haven't seen BTW). I think I liked The Five Venoms a bit more this time than I initially did. Guess knowing the story and the characters I could enjoy the action without thinking of the plot and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KenHashibe Posted February 9, 2015 Member Share Posted February 9, 2015 Haven't seen this one, don't even have it. As far as Venoms go, I only have The Five Venoms, Invincible Shaolin and Two Champions Of Shaolin (one I haven't seen BTW). Out of all of the Venoms films, I've only seen Crippled Avengers, Five Venoms, Invincible Shaolin, and Kid With the Golden Arm (I was just about to watch Masked Avengers today). My favorite is probably Invincible Shaolin followed shortly by Crippled Avengers. If you do end up watching it, you're in for a treat. It's a great movie with some fantastic fight scenes, though the story is pretty much forgotten by the second half. The others that I've mentioned are all really good too. The latest Shaw Brothers movie I've seen was Coward Bastard starring the underrated Meng Yuen Man. There are some good fights towards the end, but most of the other fight scenes are comedic and not especially impressive. The comedy in this movie isn't especially funny, but I didn't find this movie really hard to sit through. It's a decent watch, but nothing special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 9, 2015 Member Share Posted February 9, 2015 ... My favorite is probably Invincible Shaolin followed shortly by Crippled Avengers. If you do end up watching it, you're in for a treat. It's a great movie with some fantastic fight scenes, though the story is pretty much forgotten by the second half. The others that I've mentioned are all really good too. ... I'm such a huge fan of Invincible Shaolin, though I am sometimes surprised that several on here do not like it as much as myself. Well not really surprised since some are not as big on training scenes. I've posted several pictures of it (relating to the old norm of Chang Cheh and homoeroticness, but also some of the training equipment as well.) But I'm amazed by that film and it too is one of my favorite Shaw films. If you do not love this tale, you are not a lover of Lo Meng. Wait that didn't sound right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KenHashibe Posted February 9, 2015 Member Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm such a huge fan of Invincible Shaolin, though I am sometimes surprised that several on here do not like it as much as myself. Well not really surprised since some are not as big on training scenes. I've posted several pictures of it (relating to the old norm of Chang Cheh and homoeroticness, but also some of the training equipment as well.) But I'm amazed by that film and it too is one of my favorite Shaw films. If you do not love this tale, you are not a lover of Lo Meng. Wait that didn't sound right. Agreed. I love the training scenes in Invincible Shaolin. Some people may say that the training scenes get repetitive in this movie, and though I understand why they might say that, I think they're fascinating and it's fun to see these characters progress. I also found them to be pretty funny at times (Wei Pai smashing the flowers, Lo Meng having to eat the eggs), but when they finish their training, it's rewarding and satisfying. Besides the training, I love the story and characters in this movie. Easily one of my favorite SB films that I'll gladly rewatch. I remember that the SMK said this was his favorite Venoms film too, so I guess we're not alone. Then again, I still have 11 other Venoms movies to watch so we'll see. Also, I love this soundtrack from the trailer: b8BTLNmFqMY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 And remember: If you did not already know here is a great site on Chang Cheh and the Venoms: http://changcheh.0catch.com/ Check out the Venoms Films link: http://changcheh.0catch.com/ven-film.htm (see if you agree with the definition.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KenHashibe Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 If you did not already know here is a great site on Chang Cheh and the Venoms: http://changcheh.0catch.com/ Check out the Venoms Films link: http://changcheh.0catch.com/ven-film.htm (see if you agree with the definition.) Thanks for the link. Interesting site that I'll have to check out later. I'm going by Joe909's definition of a Venoms film: A movie "with Chang Cheh as director and the Shaw Brothers as producers are included...Also, per tradition, at least three Venoms must star in the film, to be considered a 'true' Venoms movie." That leaves 15 movies. If you'd like to check out Joe909's feature about the Venoms (and I'm sure you already have), here's the link: http://www.cityonfire.com/features/venoms/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm not going to start a fire again with my opinion on Crippled Avengers, lol. But I will recommend Flag of Iron, it is my favorite, better story than many venoms movies, and has many of Chang Chehs trademarks(colorful characters***, blood, brotherhood, tragedy)...great fighting goes without saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 BTW You live in Portland, right? Are you going to see Dreadnaught at the Hollywood Theatre tomorrow night? If so, tell me how it goes (not here, but maybe on another thread).Sadly no. the Portland Int. Film Fest is going on, and that's where all my attention/surplus funds is going for the next two weeks. Plus, I'm pretty sure Dan owns this print: he's played it before and I'm sure he'll do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KenHashibe Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 Sadly no. the Portland Int. Film Fest is going on, and that's where all my attention/surplus funds is going for the next two weeks. Plus, I'm pretty sure Dan owns this print: he's played it before and I'm sure he'll do it again. I'm sorry to hear you won't be able to make it, but I hope you have a good time at that film festival. I'm hoping Dreadnaught makes its way over to LA sometime soon. It's a great movie! But enough about Dreadnaught, let's talk about Shaw Brothers! I just finished watching Masked Avengers and it was probably the best kung fu flick I've seen in a while (not a long while, maybe a week or two). Excellent fight scenes and a great story. I thought it was a very exciting movie with a well-written story. I might write a more in-depth review later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tex Killer Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 Excellent fight scenes and a great story. I thought it was a very exciting movie with a well-written story. I might write a more in-depth review later. It´s one of those I would take into deserted island if must choose 3. Fantastic fights, great storyline. Suspense works there lot better than in 5 deadly venoms... Uhm, I think give it re-re(+)watch today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 Kudos to you, KenHasibe and masterofoneinchpunch. I too really enjoyed Invincible Shaolin, the training scènes are pretty fun and I enjoy some of the character traits - the fights are also impressive and the variety of styles displayed here is a major quality of this film IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 Out of all of the Venoms films, I've only seen Crippled Avengers, Five Venoms, Invincible Shaolin, and Kid With the Golden Arm (I was just about to watch Masked Avengers today). My favorite is probably Invincible Shaolin followed shortly by Crippled Avengers. If you do end up watching it, you're in for a treat. It's a great movie with some fantastic fight scenes, though the story is pretty much forgotten by the second half. The others that I've mentioned are all really good too. I've only seen Five Venoms and Invincible Shaolin. So imagine how many Venom films I have left to watch.... Will probably post a Five Venoms review by the end of the week BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 It's wild how greatly our opinions can vary. Out of the movies Ken has seen my favorites would be Kid with the Golden Arm and Masked Avengers, Crippled Avengers would actually be my least favorite out of those named, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KenHashibe Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 It´s one of those I would take into deserted island if must choose 3. Fantastic fights, great storyline. Suspense works there lot better than in 5 deadly venoms... Yeah, I didn't like how they told us who each of the Venoms were in the first half of the movie. It would've been more effective if we had to figure it out. I still think the original Five Venoms is a great movie, but I probably like Masked Avengers more. I love the scene in Masked Avengers where Chin Siu Hou is fighting off the three chiefs and reveals each of them one at a time. The scene was made more exciting with the music in the background. Kudos to you, KenHasibe and masterofoneinchpunch. I too really enjoyed Invincible Shaolin, the training scènes are pretty fun and I enjoy some of the character traits - the fights are also impressive and the variety of styles displayed here is a major quality of this film IMO. Agreed. Awesome movie! The SMK once said on his Instagram, "My all time favorite "Venoms" film...is hands down Invincible Shaolin." I love the training scenes because they feature some creative setups and it's rewarding to see our characters progress. Also some catchy music would help. Simply put, if you don't like training scenes, you won't like Invincible Shaolin. I've only seen Five Venoms and Invincible Shaolin. So imagine how many Venom films I have left to watch.... If you're going to be getting into Venoms films, I'd strongly advise you to check out this feature by Joe909: http://www.cityonfire.com/features/venoms/index.htm It's been a lot of help for me to keep track of which one's I've seen. It's wild how greatly our opinions can vary. Out of the movies Ken has seen my favorites would be Kid with the Golden Arm and Masked Avengers, Crippled Avengers would actually be my least favorite out of those named, lol. I won't act like Crippled Avengers is perfect because it's not. I felt like the movie had a fantastic story with some interesting training scenes towards the first half, but the second half throws the story out the window and focuses on the fights. Though I felt like the fighting got a bit tiresome after a while, they are very well choreographed and it ends up being pretty exciting. That's just my opinion though. Kid With the Golden Arm is one of my favorites too. The characters are all fantastic in this movie, especially Phillip Kwok and Chiang Sheng. Very enjoyable film and I love the ludicrous English dub. When I saw it at the theater, the ending got a laugh out of everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 My main issue with Cripplwd Avengers actually is the fighting. Too much acrobatics not enough fighting to me. I'll need to try and give it another shot soon. It is a movie I loved when I first saw it, than years later upon a second viewing, couldn't get into it as much. I agree with you on Kid with the Golden Arm, if you liked that, you will probably love Flag of Iron. It has many of the qualities that make Golden Arm great with better choreo and story.. Unfortunately no Sun Chien or Lo Meng.. Still my definite favorite out of the venoms movies though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KenHashibe Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 My main issue with Cripplwd Avengers actually is the fighting. Too much acrobatics not enough fighting to me. I'll need to try and give it another shot soon. It is a movie I loved when I first saw it, than years later upon a second viewing, couldn't get into it as much. I agree with you on Kid with the Golden Arm, if you liked that, you will probably love Flag of Iron. It has many of the qualities that make Golden Arm great with better choreo and story.. Unfortunately no Sun Chien or Lo Meng.. Still my definite favorite out of the venoms movies though. I've heard about some people not liking the Venoms because the action is too "showy" and I can understand that, but I like the fight scenes where the performers can do things that I (and 90% of the world) can't do, even if it's totally unrealistic. I've also heard quite a few people saying that Flag of Iron is their favorite. That's definitely one that I've always wanted to check out. So far, I've seen five of the Venoms movies. How many have you seen (going by Joe909's definition)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 Out of the 15 on his list, I've seen 11. I haven't seen Rebel Intruders, Legend of the Fox, Daredevils, or Ode to Gallantry. Sword Stained with Royal Blood or House of Traps are my least favorite. They both don't have much fighting, Sword Stained is a little confusing, and iirc House of Traps had unnecessary gay chest exposing costumes... Lol. Both are worth a watch though, I'll probably revisit Sword Stained with Royal Blood soon as I don't remember it well. Is there a thread where people rank the venoms films they've seen? That'd be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KenHashibe Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 Out of the 15 on his list, I've seen 11. I haven't seen Rebel Intruders, Legend of the Fox, Daredevils, or Ode to Gallantry. Sword Stained with Royal Blood or House of Traps are my least favorite. They both don't have much fighting, Sword Stained is a little confusing, and iirc House of Traps had unnecessary gay chest exposing costumes... Lol. Both are worth a watch though, I'll probably revisit Sword Stained with Royal Blood soon as I don't remember it well. Is there a thread where people rank the venoms films they've seen? That'd be fun. It does not appear that there is. That would be a fun thread, but hopefully we don't start a fire. I've heard about both Sword Stained and House of Traps having little action, but mostly talking. That's a six word review of House of Traps that I love: "Too much yapping, not enough trapping." I can't remember who wrote it. Out of the four that you haven't seen, I've always wanted to see The Daredevils. It looks like a fun little movie, but I've heard that the action is mostly just acrobatics, which I like, but I know you're not a big fan of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Arts Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 I agree totally regarding Crippled Avengers, with some of the high reviews/praise about the net, i was disapointed with the over the top acrobatics of the final fight, but i still really enjoyed it as it were. I did rewatch it again not so long a go with a friend that isnt really into his MA or Shaws films, and he had a blast.. he kept saying "Wow!! These lads are awesome!" with his eyes wide and jaw dropped lol Regarding the Venoms, I think i have all 15.. one second.. Im missing Two Champions of Shaolin, but i have seen it. Im not great at writing full reviews, and its been a while since i've seen a couple of them but i still have a very good idea on how i would rank them.. I seem to think of 3 tiers.. My Fave lot, Good ones and Ones that i didnt care for very much [but still worth a watch and are no means bad] Top Tier 5Venoms Masked Avengers SSWRB Mag Ruffians Kid With Golden Arms Cripple Avengers Flag of Iron Invincible Shaolin Middle Tier Shaolin Rescuers Rebel Intruders House of Traps Daredevils Lowest Tier Ode to Gallantry Legend of the Fox 2 Champions of Shaolin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member jmungus Posted February 10, 2015 Member Share Posted February 10, 2015 Throughout the years, "LEGEND OF THE FOX" has always been kind of a little liked black sheep among the fans. It stands out in that regard. Been quite some years since i`ve last watched it, but i do remember thinking about that very situation like 4, 5 years ago and i came to the conclusion a) the movie is underrated its easily "a middle tier venomous movie" c) Chang Cheh, Venoms..... Wuxia ?!?!?!!!! Yeah its a total Jiang Hu type flick plus it has a sprinkle of old school chanbara style to it. Definitely something worth checking out. Different, entertaining enough, dont expect to be blown away & grab a copy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted February 11, 2015 Member Share Posted February 11, 2015 Ken, that six word review of House of Traps is hilarious, haha. It isn't that I don't like acrobatics at all, I just don't like it when it gets to the point where it seems like theyre jumping around more than attacking! With that said, the Daredevils does interest me because I believe it is set in modern day. Drunken Arts, I agree with your "tier list" mostly. A couple adjustments if it were my list: Crippled Avengers, 2 Champions, and possibly Masked Avengers to middle tier, SSWRB, and House of Traps to Lowest tier. and Shaolin Rescuers to Highest tier. I'd like to check out Legend of the Fox, along with the other few Venoms flicks I haven't seen. From your description Jmung, it sounds like it may resemble the late 60s-early 70s period of Shaw wuxia (that I love.) I think I will make that venoms ranking thread tomorrow.. I'm too tired and want to get a movie in before I hit the sack.. If someone else wants to start it off first that's cool too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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