Member RogueWarrior Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 Isnt Disciples of Shaolin's Chinese title Hung Gar Kid? And New Shaolin Boxers - Choy Lee Fut Kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 Yup. All the more reason they should be exiled from the Shaolin Cycle: they pretty much form their own trilogy alongside Chinatown Kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tex Killer Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 RE: Tex Killer You've seen Ti Lung's The Young Rebel yet? I'm pretty sure the two films were shot simultaneously, with lots of the same locations and actors.. Neither are great films, but both are interesting that they really feel more like the sort of modern basher you saw at Golden Harvest. Yes, I checked The Young Rebel few years ago. Indeed not great but was it was good entertainment. I think you are right they were shot side by side. I also like "generation gap".. Taxi Driver and Friends(+there is propably more in shelf) I have not seen yet but I own them. After gave view to "4 riders" right now modern day Shaws interest me more than kungfu/swordplay.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KyFi Posted January 24, 2014 Member Share Posted January 24, 2014 Just watched Naval Commandos again, and that's pretty enjoyable. I like the flashback structure, with the old captain on the modern ship thinking back to his younger days fighting the Japanese. All the Shaw stars are playing the familiar roles that they’re comfortable with: David Chiang is the smooth gangster who is really more patriotic than he lets on, Ti Lung and Chi Kuan Chun are the stoic, noble types, and Fu Sheng does his usual slightly comical, naïve yet brave guy. For me, it’s always fun seeing these guys in these types of roles. I would say the movie is similar to 7-Man Army. It’s pretty evident that Shaws didn’t really have the resources to do full-scale modern battle scenes at the level of Hollywood. I’m no aviation expert, but I’m pretty sure those 6 small planes in this movie--that are supposed to be Japanese Bombers--are not historically accurate. Still, they give it a good try, with a lot of scenes shot on a real warship, and they use some okay-looking shots with miniatures. And, Chang Cheh doesn’t center the movie around the big battle scenes anyway---the big final action scene is kung fu/gun/bayonette action on the Japanese ship, similar to Anonymous Heroes, Boxer Rebellion and 7-Man Army. If someone isn’t a Shaw fan, they’d probably think this was kind of silly and not a very convincing war movie----but for Shaw fans, this movie delivers the goods, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted January 24, 2014 Member Share Posted January 24, 2014 Naval Commando's budget was slashed after the failure and controversy surrounding Boxer Rebellion. The fact that Seven Man Army underperformed didn't help matters either. It pretty much marked the end of Chang's Film Company (which the wretched Magnificent Wanderers only confirmed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 27, 2014 Member Share Posted January 27, 2014 Naval Commando's budget was slashed after the failure and controversy surrounding Boxer Rebellion. The fact that Seven Man Army underperformed didn't help matters either. It pretty much marked the end of Chang's Film Company (which the wretched Magnificent Wanderers only confirmed). "controversy"? Do tell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member gorhama Posted January 27, 2014 Member Share Posted January 27, 2014 I just re-watched The Magic Blade and forgot how much I love that film!! Ti Lung is amazing and his weapon of choice unique to say the least. The fights are fast and often. Ti Lung comes across as Clint Eastwood in the vein of his Man with No Name trilogy. Just a great classic Shaw Brothers production!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted January 28, 2014 Member Share Posted January 28, 2014 "controversy"? Do tell!Taiwanese politics. Chang Cheh was personal friends with Chiang Kai-Shek's son so his entire stay in Taiwan was blasted as a political stunt by political opponents, and he was accused of painting a picture of China that deserved its colonial fate. There was also censorships roes, being essentially forced by the Taiwanese to reedit the film (I assume this edit is the one that survives). The film was briefly banned and then further cut before it was released in Hong Kong shortened as Spiritual Fists. The uneasy intrusion of politics onto productions was purportedly one reason Run Run Shaw pulled the plug on Chang's Film Co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 28, 2014 Member Share Posted January 28, 2014 Taiwanese politics. Chang Cheh was personal friends with Chiang Kai-Shek's son so his entire stay in Taiwan was blasted as a political stunt by political opponents, and he was accused of painting a picture of China that deserved its colonial fate. There was also censorships roes, being essentially forced by the Taiwanese to reedit the film (I assume this edit is the one that survives). The film was briefly banned and then further cut before it was released in Hong Kong shortened as Spiritual Fists. The uneasy intrusion of politics onto productions was purportedly one reason Run Run Shaw pulled the plug on Chang's Film Co. Wow! I never knew that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Kwok Choi Posted January 28, 2014 Member Share Posted January 28, 2014 Naval Commando's budget was slashed after the failure and controversy surrounding Boxer Rebellion. The fact that Seven Man Army underperformed didn't help matters either. It pretty much marked the end of Chang's Film Company (which the wretched Magnificent Wanderers only confirmed). Did 7 Man Army under perform in Taiwan,Hong Kong or worldwide? as it was a mega hit in my neck of the woods which ran and ran till the first prints had to be replaced due to wear not damage.More prints were ordered which suffered similar fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted January 28, 2014 Member Share Posted January 28, 2014 Well, that was Shaw's precarious position in investing in epics: they had to be smash hits in every territory for Shaw to see serious money. In fact, since the whole point of Chang's Film Co. was to extricate money from Taiwan, they needed to be successful across the region lest the money remain stuck in Taiwan once more. The only number I can find is shy of $800,000, although I'm not sure if that includes just Hong Kong or foreign gross. Either way, since a film had to typically crack a million in Hong Kong to even be considered a "blockbuster" during this era and typically push two mil (and this right at the start of the Cantonese revival, which raised the bar astronomically - the same year's Private Eyes made over $8 mil compared to the $1.75 mil, Emperor Chien Lung, which was Shaw's highest grosser) that's pretty paltry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 28, 2014 Member Share Posted January 28, 2014 Well, that was Shaw's precarious position in investing in epics: they had to be smash hits in every territory for Shaw to see serious money. In fact, since the whole point of Chang's Film Co. was to extricate money from Taiwan, they needed to be successful across the region lest the money remain stuck in Taiwan once more. The only number I can find is shy of $800,000, although I'm not sure if that includes just Hong Kong or foreign gross. Either way, since a film had to typically crack a million in Hong Kong to even be considered a "blockbuster" during this era and typically push two mil (and this right at the start of the Cantonese revival, which raised the bar astronomically - the same year's Private Eyes made over $8 mil compared to the $1.75 mil, Emperor Chien Lung, which was Shaw's highest grosser) that's pretty paltry. Cold Bishop, you are a true asset to the forum. Every post is a great and informative read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KyFi Posted January 28, 2014 Member Share Posted January 28, 2014 Taiwanese politics. Chang Cheh was personal friends with Chiang Kai-Shek's son so his entire stay in Taiwan was blasted as a political stunt by political opponents, and he was accused of painting a picture of China that deserved its colonial fate. There was also censorships roes, being essentially forced by the Taiwanese to reedit the film (I assume this edit is the one that survives). The film was briefly banned and then further cut before it was released in Hong Kong shortened as Spiritual Fists. The uneasy intrusion of politics onto productions was purportedly one reason Run Run Shaw pulled the plug on Chang's Film Co. That's an interesting history, because out of all that, I think the screenplay for Boxer Rebellion is surprisingly nuanced and complex, for a Shaw kung fu movie at least. The Western imperial powers are of course the main villains, but the German general is given a human side, with his interracial romance with Chi Kuan Chun's old flame---and when the German soldiers arrive to start pillaging, she lectures them that German soldiers are supposed to be more honorable than that. And as far as the Chinese side, you get a great range of motivations. Fu Sheng is just kind of a naive, patriotic guy who wants to do his part. Leung Kar Yan has a pretty good idea that the Boxer movement's magic spells and rituals are phony, but he thinks it's worth it to motivate the peasant army. Chi Kuan Chun is a little sharper and more cynical, and he's opposed to the idea of the Chinese peasants being tricked into believing that they're bulletproof and being sacrificed en masse---unlike Leung Kar Yan, he doesn't think the ends justify the means. And Wang Lung Wei is just as bad as the foreign troops, as he's more than willing to trick the peasants and get them killed to enhance his own position. As I recall it also shows how ridiculously extravagant and out of touch the Empress Dowager was, while the country was in turmoil. I think this is a really interesting historical period, and CC put forth a pretty good effort with this film, I thought. I really like the fight choreography in this one, and it does have a pretty epic scope. (although it must be said that the Westerner in the horse and buggy in the beginning who shoots at Fu Sheng is right up there with the worst Western actors ever to appear in a Shaw movie. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted January 29, 2014 Member Share Posted January 29, 2014 After being only marginally impressed by "Disciples of Shaolin" and "Five Shaolin Masters," I decided to watch "Shaolin Temple" last night. I can now say "Shaolin Temple" sits in my top five kung fu films of all time. I loved it. The cast, the story, the fights...everything was perfect. In fact, I'd say this film is more of a definitive Shaolin film than "The 36th Chamber of Shaolin." I didn't know I'd see so many familiar faces! a superb film through and through. I can't believe it's taken me this long to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kevenz Posted January 29, 2014 Member Share Posted January 29, 2014 I watched Kid from Kwangtung because Hwang Jang Lee is in it and it was pretty good overall..... the part with ghosts and michael jackson's thriller wannabe song was quite boring I guess but the fights were great. It also feature Yen Shi Kwan, the bad guy from Fearless Hyena, I love this guy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted January 29, 2014 Administrator Share Posted January 29, 2014 I just re-watched The Magic Blade and forgot how much I love that film!! Ti Lung is amazing and his weapon of choice unique to say the least. The fights are fast and often. Ti Lung comes across as Clint Eastwood in the vein of his Man with No Name trilogy. Just a great classic Shaw Brothers production!! Totally agree- Ti Lung is channeling "Blondie" from Leone's films, and rocking that spinning tonfa-sword! I actually drew up the design of that weapon for a guy I know that makes custom weapons. He said he can make it for me no problem. So whenever I have a shitload of extra cash to blow... Well, that was Shaw's precarious position in investing in epics... Hey Cold Bishop- I just wanted to echo Killer Meter's sentiments and say thanks for all the great information you've been posting. That's an interesting history, because out of all that, I think the screenplay for Boxer Rebellion is surprisingly nuanced and complex, for a Shaw kung fu movie at least. Love your write-up of BOXER REBELLION KyFi! Very nice. I can now say "Shaolin Temple" sits in my top five kung fu films of all time. I loved it. The cast, the story, the fights...everything was perfect. In fact, I'd say this film is more of a definitive Shaolin film than "The 36th Chamber of Shaolin." I didn't know I'd see so many familiar faces! a superb film through and through. I can't believe it's taken me this long to see it. Cool film indeed! I'm over due to revisit this one. I watched Kid from Kwangtung because Hwang Jang Lee is in it and it was pretty good overall..... the part with ghosts and michael jackson's thriller wannabe song was quite boring I guess but the fights were great. It also feature Yen Shi Kwan, the bad guy from Fearless Hyena, I love this guy ! Weird film, as it is mostly an awesome kung fu film with a stand-out performance from Hwang Jang-Lee, but it includes a few terrible scenes that bring it screeching to a halt. Also notable for being one of the most painful-to-watch defeats of a villain! Oh man, I was wincing throughout. I leave it spoiler free though for those that haven't seen it. I watched HEROES OF THE EAST again (I couldn't even guess how many times I've seen it now) as I introduced my young niece and nephew to the world of Shaw Brothers. They were delighted, which was a big thrill for me. Now they (both study martial arts) want to see me show them how to use the three-section staff they saw in the basement! LOL Unfortunately, that's not something that I can do right now due to injuries I sustained in a car accident. When my niece asked when I'll be healed enough to do it, I explained that there's a possibility I won't ever be able to use that weapon again. My nephew said "No way Uncle Bob. You will be able to. Remember when Jet was hurt (in SHAOLIN TEMPLE, another film I just showed them), but he healed up and used them. And you're bigger and stronger than him!" I know I'm a big sap. But what can I say? The kid gave me both inspiration and hope with his naive comment. Shit, it can only hurt to try,right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 30, 2014 Member Share Posted January 30, 2014 One mystery now is: if the Chang's Film Co product performed poorly, what turned Fu Sheng into a popular star? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted January 30, 2014 Member Share Posted January 30, 2014 I think it was the big budget films that did not make the return they were supposed to. I can't imagine 5 Shaolin masters didn't make money or cost much to make- they are just walking around outside for most of the movie. The other thing is that what might have been a money maker or cult film here could be a flop there, and vice versa. A friend of mine was disgusted by the "cute" fighting style in Wheels on Meals, especially with Benny the Jet fight. He just didn't get it. Of course, it was a smash hit in HK. Never released in the US theaters, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted January 30, 2014 Member Share Posted January 30, 2014 Example- Fu Sheng's last movie- Hong Kong Playboy Country: Hong Kong Genre: Comedy Release Date: 06/18/1983 Box Office: HK $7,373,743.00 I couldn't even finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted January 30, 2014 Member Share Posted January 30, 2014 Just because Chang's Film Company didn't make money doesn't mean certain films weren't successful with audiences. If $1 million was still the magic number for a "blockbuster" to clear, a good half of Fu Sheng's Shaolin films were well within that wheelhouse. I imagine its not too different than what you see in Hollywood today, when a film makes hundreds of millions, but is still treated as a "flop": Shaw needed bigger hits to justify the expense. You also can't overlook, I imagine, sheer persistence. These films were out every few months or so. One film alone didn't make him a star, it was the fact he was constantly there in front of audiences. Also, cultural impact doesn't always correspond to tangible success. It's my understanding that Disciples of Shaolin was the film more that any other that made him a star, although it wasn't necessarily the highest-grossing of his films. It was, however, one of the major kung-fu hits that year, which seemed to have been an otherwise dismal year for the genre. Only Spiritual Boxer outgrossed it, and Marco Polo was Fu Sheng's only other film that year (and also crossed $1mil). The fact he had less competition, both against others and himself, probably made it have a cultural impact it might not have otherwise. And surprisingly, as cheap as they look, most of those early Shaolin films did spend a lot of money because they took so damn long to make. If I recall, Heroes Two was the third film started but the first to be released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted January 30, 2014 Member Share Posted January 30, 2014 The fact that Heroes Two was made later than say Men From the Monastery kind of makes sense. I always wondered why MFTM did not have shapes, when it was really kind of a big deal when it shows up in Heroes Two, yet I had assumed that Men From the Monastery was made later. I realize that Wong Fei Hung had shapes, but I think it was different, in the sense that like most of the modern martial arts (post King Hu/Chang Cheh/Wang Yu) every blow is a death blow, not just a strike. I know it (shapes) was a big deal for us in the US. Shaolin Temple is a great Kung Fu flick. One of my favorites as well. I saw it over and over at the theaters, as well as owning it now. I honestly prefer it to the Jet Li Shaolin Temple movie. Hard to compare, in a way, as one is Northern Style and the other Southern, but the Sheng version has more drama in the finale, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted January 30, 2014 Member Share Posted January 30, 2014 PS, Just watched Sword of Swords the other night. Meh, good for a single viewing, but too much meandering plot getting in the way of the action. Also, it's just kind of a downer. Not a huge Wang Yu fan, so I had waited awhile to catch it. Still, if you can see it for free, it's a decent time killer on a night you can't sleep. If you want good Wang Yu, there's always Return of the One Armed Swordsman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tex Killer Posted January 30, 2014 Member Share Posted January 30, 2014 It depends what you are looking for. While ROTOAS is definitely better on action than sword of the swords ( or golden swallow&trail of the broken blade) for storyline and characters it will lose... Latest Shaw I watched was twin blades of doom...Interestingly during viewing I thought action scenes looked better in later part of movie than in beginning ( though still quite crude as was usual for that time, made in 1969) and when checked about hkcinemagic director died and someone else finished movie...Storyline was usual stuff, bandits after treasure but script was written well enough there was no boring moments...Taiwan dvd had no extras and forced subtitles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 30, 2014 Member Share Posted January 30, 2014 PS, Just watched Sword of Swords the other night. Meh, good for a single viewing, but too much meandering plot getting in the way of the action. Also, it's just kind of a downer. Not a huge Wang Yu fan, so I had waited awhile to catch it. Still, if you can see it for free, it's a decent time killer on a night you can't sleep. If you want good Wang Yu, there's always Return of the One Armed Swordsman. I really like Sword of Swords, very good dramatic film. By comparison, I enjoy ROTOAS, but it's very immature by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 30, 2014 Member Share Posted January 30, 2014 The fact that Heroes Two was made later than say Men From the Monastery kind of makes sense. I always wondered why MFTM did not have shapes, when it was really kind of a big deal when it shows up in Heroes Two, yet I had assumed that Men From the Monastery was made later. I realize that Wong Fei Hung had shapes, but I think it was different, in the sense that like most of the modern martial arts (post King Hu/Chang Cheh/Wang Yu) every blow is a death blow, not just a strike. I know it (shapes) was a big deal for us in the US. Shaolin Temple is a great Kung Fu flick. One of my favorites as well. I saw it over and over at the theaters, as well as owning it now. I honestly prefer it to the Jet Li Shaolin Temple movie. Hard to compare, in a way, as one is Northern Style and the other Southern, but the Sheng version has more drama in the finale, IMHO. Heroes Two was released first in Hong Kong (and features flashback footage to Men from the Monastary). I wonder how they were released in, say, Taiwan? Heroes Two also has that long "Three Styles of Hung Fist" intro, which probably fits better with Men from the Monastary since it also has Chi Kuan Chun and fits into that film's documentary like presentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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