Guest Markgway Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 A Touch of Zen was filmed as one movie by King Hu, but split into two by the distributor, much to his upset, so he left the production company (Union) and moved backed to Hong Kong to co-produce with Golden Harvest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron_Jinon Posted December 15, 2007 Member Share Posted December 15, 2007 I have not seen Touch Of Zen either..it was shown on cinema some years ago but I did not want to sit hours there(full lenght feature is 3 hours or sth).Friend said there is not much action.Well made according to many sources but prolly not my cup of tea. Come Drink With Me is great,if/as DD release includes english dub I will get it.Sequel "Golden Swallow" is even better and certainly finest movie featuring Jimmy Wang Yu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Ooh, can't agree with that. I'd rate Come Drink With Me well above Golden Swallow and rank The Sword of Swords as Wang Yu's best movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron_Jinon Posted December 15, 2007 Member Share Posted December 15, 2007 in CDWM scenes where golden swallow chases drunken cat&when drunken cat signs with those children made me yawn a bit.+golden swallow does not kill unless necessary were weaker points in CDWM.in GS I did not see any boring second.Silver Roc does not have problem in slaugtering dozens of enemies;)... EUKmXfjdQF8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Amazing Psycho Per Posted December 15, 2007 Member Share Posted December 15, 2007 Come on! The choreography is so weak! So much arms swinging around like a weathercock in times of big wind!!! Sure am glad I didn't pick this one, it's reall not what I'm looking for in a kung fu flick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted December 15, 2007 Member Share Posted December 15, 2007 I thought the part where Yueh Hua sings with the orphans was quite charming, it was great character development to show he was more than just a drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Come on! The choreography is so weak! So much arms swinging around like a weathercock in times of big wind!!! Maybe... but it's a better film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Amazing Psycho Per Posted December 16, 2007 Member Share Posted December 16, 2007 I can't really comment on that since I haven't seen it... But, saying it is a better film doesn't say much for me, not very hard to make a better "film" then a kung fu movie... If I want to watch a better film I'll go somewhere else, I don't know for others but the main reason I watch kung fu flicks is to see great fight choreo., and this one clearly doesn't deliver... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sifu Posted December 17, 2007 Member Share Posted December 17, 2007 If I want to watch a better film I'll go somewhere else, I don't know for others but the main reason I watch kung fu flicks is to see great fight choreo. I agree! They're about how inventive and intricate the fighting is, if they have good plot, that's just a bonus! Well, maybe I don't feel that way all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron_Jinon Posted December 17, 2007 Member Share Posted December 17, 2007 I choose 1960`s wu xia movie with interesting plot,nice costumes+sets&so so choreography over another student avenges death of sifu even if fighting is better. good thing shaws often have almost always decent storyline,those straighforward bashers came mainly from small studios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venoms5 Posted December 17, 2007 Member Share Posted December 17, 2007 Well, you have to put the film into context with the year or time that it was made. The choreo in CDWM is quite beautiful to look at for the time period. Different from CC's more rough and brutal stylings that appeared the following year with OAS and, as you all know, would change further over the course of the 70s and into the 80s. On a personal level, I like the CC style of action better but both films for me offer totally different perspectives on character and story motifs handled by two directors with methods that are the polar opposite of one another. But yes, a kung fu/martial chivalry/sword movie MUST have at least decent choreo and both of these deliver that. Only Hu's film is a bit more romantic and elegant whereas Cheh's movie is more brute force laced with the romanticism that permeates the previous film. And the Shaw's had an edge none of the others had at the time. The stories were always interesting (for the most part) and they had such gorgeous set design populating their movies even if the fighting was nothing overly special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Good choreography without a good story is meaningless. Might as well watch a compliation tape. Come Drink With Me was one of the first martial arts movie successes and deserves credit for that. Without that film there would be no Golden Swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member HAZ Posted December 17, 2007 Member Share Posted December 17, 2007 I usually don't care much about the historical significance of a fil, I'm not a historian, I just want to be entertained. That being said, CDWM is an entertaining film. Some of those sets were awesome. Pei Pei moves with such grace. That weird begger with the kids was kinda cool. I'm probably in the minority, but I prefered Touch Of Zen. Still, a fine picture by King Hu. Only peeve about the dvd was that the commentary track sounded awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sifu Posted December 17, 2007 Member Share Posted December 17, 2007 I usually don't care much about the historical significance of a fil, I'm not a historian, I just want to be entertained. I agree, and along with what you said MG, look at Iron Monkey! One of the greatest, not for plot, but sheer skillful choreography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Amazing Psycho Per Posted December 17, 2007 Member Share Posted December 17, 2007 I agree that CDWM has a historical significance for the way it influenced martial arts movie making for decade to come and I respect that... Without that film there would be no Golden Swallow. I couldn't care less... Chang Cheh although he made more good Kung fu flicks, I don't believe he brought much in terms of movie making to the Kung fu genre... Good choreography without a good story is meaningless I partially agree with that. I agree in a way that for me movies like 5 superfighters and Monkey kung fu did not revel any interest being closer to a compilation tape as you said then a film. But, on the other hand I don't expect that much of a great film either, just something interesting enough to keep the interest. But ultimately the quality of the fights is what preveil in a reputation of a movie. I'm sorry but I have rarely see a kung fu movie that could be qualified a good film, and that could have been interesting if you took out the fights. Come on man, more then often the screenplays from those movies could have been written by twelve years old! If I want to see great films with weak chorography I'll go on the japanese side with the like of the outstanding Seven samurai and Harakiri. Now those are good films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sifu Posted December 17, 2007 Member Share Posted December 17, 2007 But ultimately the quality of the fights is what preveil in a reputation of a movie. I'm sorry but I have rarely see a kung fu movie that could be qualified a good film, and that could have been interesting if you took out the fights. Come on man, more then often the screenplays from those movies could have been written by twelve years old! I agree wholeheartedly with you! Shaw films just tried to make more "complex" plots than the rest of the competition. Half the time they just became convoluted! The choreography is what was meant to be front and center. I agree, I was arguing about that as well in another thread. They were quick, like Shintaro Katsu, but Zatoichi looked like he was just flailing around blindly. No pun intened. Same with Toshiro Mifune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member venoms5 Posted December 18, 2007 Member Share Posted December 18, 2007 Katsu and his brother Wakayama were both famous martial artists in real life. IMO, the sword fights in ZATOICHI were impressive. The "flailing" was a nuance of Katsu's portraying a blind character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted December 18, 2007 Member Share Posted December 18, 2007 I agree, I was arguing about that as well in another thread. They were quick, like Shintaro Katsu, but Zatoichi looked like he was just flailing around blindly. No pun intened. Same with Toshiro Mifune Flailing around blindly?!?!? Sifu you do realize his character is blind right? His samurai sword technique is mesmerizing to watch. If you can't see how awesome he is I don't know what to tell you. Watch closer I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Righteous Master Posted December 18, 2007 Member Share Posted December 18, 2007 Still waiting for Fist of Legend 2 disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted December 18, 2007 Member Share Posted December 18, 2007 You and 5 million other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted December 19, 2007 Member Share Posted December 19, 2007 If I want to see great films with weak chorography I'll go on the japanese side with the like of the outstanding Seven samurai and Harakiri. Now those are good films. I think your misinterpeting weak for realistic as all the Japanese actors were very skilled with a sword and studied Kendo, it's not like they just gave the actors swords and said - ok swing! Shintaro Katsu and his brother was especially skilled and had the quickest draws in cinema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Amazing Psycho Per Posted December 19, 2007 Member Share Posted December 19, 2007 Ok maybe I was misinterpreted here. I didn't say all fight choreography was weak in japenese cinema. I was making reference to seven samurai and Harakiri. Although some of my favorite movies and great pieces of cinema, the fighting choreography in these movies is nothing spectacular and pretty much a mess. I know that Kurosowa wanted to give a more realistic feel to Seven samurai as opposed to the traditional chambara genre that he thought looked fake for being to much choreographed. Of course there are good choreo in some japanese movies, but the two genres (chambara and kung fu) really can't be compared on this level. I was just trying to point out that the japanese made better "films" cinema wise than the chinese, and that to me there were no hong kong kung fu/wu xia movies, at least at the time, that diserved to be watch for it's cinematographic quality. Hence what we are left with to appreciate is the fighting choreography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sifu Posted December 20, 2007 Member Share Posted December 20, 2007 I was just trying to point out that the japanese made better "films" cinema wise than the chinese, and that to me there were no hong kong kung fu/wu xia movies, at least at the time, that diserved to be watch for it's cinematographic quality. Hence what we are left with to appreciate is the fighting choreography. Final thought for me on this subject = Japanese in the 70s - More emphasis on story, less on choreography! Chinese in the 70s - More emphasis on choreography, less on story. Yet, Shaws sometime like 'em convoluted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Righteous Master Posted December 22, 2007 Member Share Posted December 22, 2007 I just have one question. Why has DD not already released Five Deadly Venoms? The release of this title just seems so logical and it would most likely make lots of money. Just imagine the extras in this one! You should all know that I say these things not as a biased venoms fanboy (I am not by any means a big FDV fan),but as someone who knows what a major impact this film had on both the east and the west. What's up Dragon Dynasty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Amazing Psycho Per Posted December 22, 2007 Member Share Posted December 22, 2007 If I remember correctly, they project to release it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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