Member WalkOn Posted September 28, 2008 Member Share Posted September 28, 2008 Nice breakdown, Jingangchan! I appreciate the detailed explanations! I agree with almost everything you say. IMO, Bruce's greatest kick was skipping thrust side kick. The grace, style and raw power was just amazing! Next I would say was his lighting fast lead leg round kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 I can't agree to that. Unless you are saying he has a bigger variety of jumping kicks. THen I would give you a maybe. But overall I have seen more variety from Hwang. Trust me I have seen Shaolin Drunk Monkey and death Duel way too many times:D Actually I'm saying the opposite...Eagle Han actually had less variety in jump kicks...his greater variety was in other kinds of kicks...for example, unlike Han Ying, I've never seen HJL perform a butterfly kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 Let's not forget about Kim Won Jin either, that guy is tops in the kicking department and he can pull off some amazing acrobatics as well. The kicks we use in TKD that I was taught are the front, roundhouse, side, hook, spinning hook, ax, outside inside(reverse cresent kick), inside outside(cresent kick), spinning side kick, donkey kick(back kick), push kick, and butterfly(Tornado) kick. Then of course like you said there are variations to some of these kicks like adding a jumping or spinning angle to them. Please excuse me but I'm curious you seem to know alot about kicking, do you study TKD or some other kick oriented art like Hapkido? What movie was Kim Won Jin in? Actually I've never studied a Korean art. I've had some Kung Fu but, never got beyond the beginning stages. I was actually familiar with kicks before I studied anything. If you look at Korea it is attached to the region of China that developed a lot of flamboyant kicks (e.g. Tornado kick). Tang soo do basically translates to "way of the Tang hand" which is a reference to the Chinese Tang dynasty. TKD was also heavily influenced by Karate which is one reason why some people call TKD "Korean karate." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 I disagree, and don't know what you are referring to when you say "single jumpkick". Personally, if you want to say what Bruce Lee did best, I would say it was the triple combination kick; SIDEKICK, CRESCENT KICK, ROUNDHOUSE KICK, originally introduced to Mandarin Kung Fu audiences in The Big Boss. It's the scene at the end of the film where he kicks one of Han Yin Kit's baddies into the pool, outside The Boss' home. No one used this combination on film authenticly, before Bruce, and no one does it better. Justmyopinionhereok?sothanksandthat'sallfornow.:l Okay...but, you are talking composite leg attacks, and for that specific combo maybe you are right-I'll have to look at it. If you are talking composite leg attacks then that is another good catagory that I'm sure will illicit a lot of discussion in general. As for "single jump-kick," what I mean is a jumpkick that includes only one kick as opposed to a jump-kick that includes 2 or 3 leg attacks before the stylist lands. A single jump-kick as opposed to say a double jump-kick. I still think Bruce Lee's single jump-kick is one of his best techniques...but, of course there are more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 I first saw Chui Jing-Yat in Shaolin Drunken Monk. He played the #1 henchman to Eagle Han, who fought Gordon Liu and his partner. He did some pretty wicked kicking in that fight scene (Check 2:23 at this youtube scene). <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9upjq6VZnHE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9upjq6VZnHE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Then, he blew me away in License to Steal, where he showcased his impressive kicking skills in an all-out garage rumble that featured Joyce Godenzi-Hung, Collin Chou, Yuen Biao, and Billy Chau as well. Chui is the guy in grey fighting a young Collin Chou. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-PCT2liQ6o&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-PCT2liQ6o&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Chui Jing Yat is maybe the best all around guy to be in HK Cinema. Very overlooked...He's super flexible...great hand and leg techniques...acrobatics...and I've seen him do some great chin na and weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 Nice breakdown, Jingangchan! I appreciate the detailed explanations! I agree with almost everything you say. IMO, Bruce's greatest kick was skipping thrust side kick. The grace, style and raw power was just amazing! Next I would say was his lighting fast lead leg round kick. Thanks for the kind words...and the thing about Bruce Lee is that pretty much all of his leg techniques were top notch. His "flying" side-kick against Suzuki in the Chinese Connection was one of the greatest of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 What movie was Kim Won Jin in? Actually I've never studied a Korean art. I've had some Kung Fu but, never got beyond the beginning stages. I was actually familiar with kicks before I studied anything. If you look at Korea it is attached to the region of China that developed a lot of flamboyant kicks (e.g. Tornado kick). Tang soo do basically translates to "way of the Tang hand" which is a reference to the Chinese Tang dynasty. TKD was also heavily influenced by Karate which is one reason why some people call TKD "Korean karate." Kim Won Jin played Sunny in the film Operation Scorpio aka The Scorpion King opposite Chin Kar Lok and Liu Chia Liang. He also played the waiter assassin in China Strike Force and fought Yuen biao in No Problem 2. He has been in some Korean films like Vindictive Venom as well. Yes TKD has elements from Shotokan Karate but probably also borrows from some northern styles of Kung Fu with it's strong emphasis on kicks. Tang Soo Do is the same as TKD but has different forms I think, but I have never studied TSD so don't know for sure. Hapkido has the kicks like TKD but has alot of joint locks like Jiujitsu. I have to say though, for someone who's never studied a kicking style you sure seem to be knowledgable about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 Kim Won Jin played Sunny in the film Operation Scorpio aka The Scorpion King opposite Chin Kar Lok and Liu Chia Liang. He also played the waiter assassin in China Strike Force and fought Yuen biao in No Problem 2. He has been in some Korean films like Vindictive Venom as well. Yes TKD has elements from Shotokan Karate but probably also borrows from some northern styles of Kung Fu with it's strong emphasis on kicks. Tang Soo Do is the same as TKD but has different forms I think, but I have never studied TSD so don't know for sure. Hapkido has the kicks like TKD but has alot of joint locks like Jiujitsu. I have to say though, for someone who's never studied a kicking style you sure seem to be knowledgable about it. Well, since Karate was largely derived from Kung Fu anyway, I guess it ends up being the same thing. Actually I'd prefer Hap Ki Do to TKD because it's more well rounded/balanced like you said. Actually, I was in a Tibetan White Crane School for about a year befor it closed down. Technically it uses a lot of high kicks but, I never got that far. I do a lot of reading...pay attention to the good martial arts movies and know a lot of people in the martial arts. TKD can trace a lot of it's roots back to Northern Kung Fu such as My Jong Law Horn, Northern Shao Lin and Leg Deeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Endsang Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 Well, if you noticed, I picked a specific comment made by Jingangchan to reply to. I knew at least what I was commenting on by placing his quote before my rebuttal. By pointing out my opinion, I clearly stated not only what I felt Lee was best at, but also what he may have pioneered. Why the sarcasm? I wasn't being a cynic, simply stating what I feel, as so many others do. Pick your sources on decent merit. :l Sorry, I didn't try to be a jerk and meant no sarcasm by it, just thought you meant that you disagreed with Bruce Lee having the best "single jump kick" before saying you didn't know what a "single jump kick" was. Blame my english. I see that my comment sounded a bit hostile, hence the ":p". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member theportlykicker Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 Gotta agree about Chui Jing Yat. From what I've seen, he could have been one of the greatest. Shame he's so overlooked. Also... JACKIE CHAN! Totally underrated kicker. I'd take him over Yuen Biao any day of the week. Biao's kicks looked flimsy compared to Jackie's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 Oh I forgot to say thank you Albert for posting those clips of Chui Jing Yat, I remember him in that clip of License To Steal but had forgot about him because I hadn't seen him in anything else after that. He is a great kicker but I think Won Jin is alot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 Actually I'm saying the opposite...Eagle Han actually had less variety in jump kicks...his greater variety was in other kinds of kicks...for example, unlike Han Ying, I've never seen HJL perform a butterfly kick. Well when you start naming kicks, you lose me. I don't really know much about martial arts. I've only taken a kickboxing class once in high school. But I don't think there is a name for a lot Hwang's kicks since they are just show off type stuff. But maybe there are names for them, I have no idea. I may as well ask. So what are the names of these kicks? - the one in 36 Deadly Styles where Hwang jumps over the guy and kicks him in the back, Hitman in the HAnd of Buddha where he grabs the guy with his leg and kicks him with the other leg, and the one in Shaolin Blood Mission where he jumps up and claps his feet around a guy's ears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member AlbertV Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 Oh I forgot to say thank you Albert for posting those clips of Chui Jing Yat, I remember him in that clip of License To Steal but had forgot about him because I hadn't seen him in anything else after that. He is a great kicker but I think Won Jin is alot better. No problem CK:D. There isn't a favorite superkicker for me...I think each of the names that have been mentioned has brought his/her own unique style. Andy Cheng is a pretty wicked kicker as well. Seeing his fight scene against Daniel Southworth (whom he took on as a protege for a few years) in U.S. Seals 2 was really good. Park Hyun-Jin is definitely a fantastic kicker as well. He was the double for Ritchie Coster in the awful Tuxedo, but his best double work was when he doubled for Andy On in the LEGO Store fight in New Police Story. Just the way he unleashed his legs...real good! The late Eagle Han will always be a good kicker IMO. He just shines when you see him on screen. He even did some kicking in his cameo appearance in the opening of Fearless Hyena before falling prey to Yam Sai-Koon's villain, but Death Duel of Kung Fu was pretty much what did it for me. R.I.P. Eagle Han Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 Is Daniel Southworth the guy with the chains in US SEALS 2? I think that's the guy who fights Andy Cheng. that guy was awesome. Any other movies you know of where he fights good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member AlbertV Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 That's him Morgoth. Andy took him in as a protege as Dan was Andy's assistant on THE SCORPION KING (with Dwayne Johnson). Daniel is better known for his role on two Power Rangers TV series, TIME FORCE and WILD FORCE as the "Quantum Ranger". He was the fight choreographer for Michael Worth's western martial arts hybrid GHOST ROCK and did some stunt work in other films aside from acting. He is also appearing in the upcoming Alpha Stunts thriller BROKEN PATH with John Bosch. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0816185/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted September 29, 2008 Member Share Posted September 29, 2008 Thanks Albert! I think I remember seeing him on Power Rangers. That was probably the most important thing in my life when I was in 4th grade:D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted September 30, 2008 Member Share Posted September 30, 2008 Well when you start naming kicks, you lose me. I don't really know much about martial arts. I've only taken a kickboxing class once in high school. But I don't think there is a name for a lot Hwang's kicks since they are just show off type stuff. But maybe there are names for them, I have no idea. I may as well ask. So what are the names of these kicks? - the one in 36 Deadly Styles where Hwang jumps over the guy and kicks him in the back, Hitman in the HAnd of Buddha where he grabs the guy with his leg and kicks him with the other leg, and the one in Shaolin Blood Mission where he jumps up and claps his feet around a guy's ears. There are different names in different martial arts. Some terminology is pretty much universal but, not always. For example in Mandarin one of the terms for what is generally known as a roundhouse kick translates to side-kick. This makes sense if you think about it for a while but, I hope you see the point. The names of the kicks you mentioned I'm not sure about off hand. Using common terminology The first kick you mentioned sounds like a jump back-kick. The second one sounds like a leg trap followed by a front kick (forward press kick in KF). The final one I'm not sure about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted September 30, 2008 Member Share Posted September 30, 2008 No problem CK:D. There isn't a favorite superkicker for me...I think each of the names that have been mentioned has brought his/her own unique style. Andy Cheng is a pretty wicked kicker as well. Seeing his fight scene against Daniel Southworth (whom he took on as a protege for a few years) in U.S. Seals 2 was really good. Park Hyun-Jin is definitely a fantastic kicker as well. He was the double for Ritchie Coster in the awful Tuxedo, but his best double work was when he doubled for Andy On in the LEGO Store fight in New Police Story. Just the way he unleashed his legs...real good! The late Eagle Han will always be a good kicker IMO. He just shines when you see him on screen. He even did some kicking in his cameo appearance in the opening of Fearless Hyena before falling prey to Yam Sai-Koon's villain, but Death Duel of Kung Fu was pretty much what did it for me. R.I.P. Eagle Han Hard to believe it's been over a decade already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted September 30, 2008 Member Share Posted September 30, 2008 There are different names in different martial arts. Some terminology is pretty much universal but, not always. For example in Mandarin one of the terms for what is generally known as a roundhouse kick translates to side-kick. This makes sense if you think about it for a while but, I hope you see the point. The names of the kicks you mentioned I'm not sure about off hand. Using common terminology The first kick you mentioned sounds like a jump back-kick. The second one sounds like a leg trap followed by a front kick (forward press kick in KF). The final one I'm not sure about. I definitely know the difference between a roundhouse and a side kick. At least I know that much. I just don't know much on terminology. and I wonder why that translation is like that. Thanks for trying to put names to those kicks. What exactly is a butterfly kick? Hwang may not have done one in a movie, but you would think that he "could" do just about any kick right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member AlbertV Posted September 30, 2008 Member Share Posted September 30, 2008 I like the move Hwang does where he wraps his leg around his opponent, then pops up and kicks with the other foot not to mention his double jump front-round kick combination and his triple side jump kick. Van Damme even took a page from Hwang when he fought Peter Cunningham in No Retreat, No Surrender. I noticed that he did a Hwang-trademark where Cunningham tried to block his front kick but Van Damme recoils into a side kick. Hwang used this move a lot in his films. I like the "rainbow kick", where the kicker tries to execute a jumping spin kick and misses but kicks with the other foot while still in the air. This is one of Scott Adkins' trademark moves and I've seen it executed by Hien Nguyen on WMAC Masters and Akihiro Noguchi did it in Guyver 2: Dark Hero (when he was in the Guyver suit). Morgoth, The one thing that disappoints me in the last few Power Rangers series is that unlike some of the older series, none of the main cast members have martial arts training prior to the series. Dan Southworth, Austin St. John (the original Red Ranger), Johnny Bosch, Steve Cardenas and Jason Frank (who played the most Rangers on any series) were actual martial artists as compared to most of the actors, who trained under Koichi Sakamoto for the series as he is both executive producer and action choreographer, and are doubled for some of the fight sequences (not including Ranger form, where they are suit actors). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member jiujitsu77 Posted October 1, 2008 Member Share Posted October 1, 2008 jingangchan, you are a wealth of knowledge. on screen kicking (in my own opinion) is a touchy subject as far as i am concerned, simply because of the way one would express themselves through the kick on camera (to get a little lee philosophy). anyone can kick, but how it emulates the character's persona or emotion is another thing. are these kicks effective in real life? maybe. does it look sweet as hell and is the viewer convinced? that depends. that's why i like bruce lee and HJL. however, bruce was very against high kicks and at one point decided it was best not to practice them, seeing them as an opening for an opponent to capitalize on. chuck norris countered that with the notion of "hey, but what about just plain having the ABILITY to kick that high. you never know when you are going to need to". and over the years i tend to lean towards norris's way of thinking. plus i would just like to look cool doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Way of the Dragon Posted October 1, 2008 Member Share Posted October 1, 2008 Bruce Lee Yuen Biao Tony Jaa Van Damme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted October 1, 2008 Member Share Posted October 1, 2008 Bruce Lee Yuen Biao Tony Jaa Van Damme I'll definately agree with those four, I think Van Damme doesn't get the respect he deserves for being such a great kicker. His kicks look powerful with beautiful form and grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Way of the Dragon Posted October 1, 2008 Member Share Posted October 1, 2008 I'll definately agree with those four, I think Van Damme doesn't get the respect he deserves for being such a great kicker. His kicks look powerful with beautiful form and grace. Thanks, I know his kicks in Kickboxer and Bloodsport were incredible, so much power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member jiujitsu77 Posted October 1, 2008 Member Share Posted October 1, 2008 van damage is the man. very underrated in terms of kicking ability. i made fun of it when i was a kid, but ballet is one of the most graceful expressions of the human body ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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