Member Jingangchan Posted October 2, 2008 Member Share Posted October 2, 2008 I definitely know the difference between a roundhouse and a side kick. At least I know that much. I just don't know much on terminology. and I wonder why that translation is like that. Thanks for trying to put names to those kicks. What exactly is a butterfly kick? Hwang may not have done one in a movie, but you would think that he "could" do just about any kick right? You've seen it...Li Yi Min does them all the time..It's hard to describe in short order...It's when the stylists jumps up in the air spinning around like a jumping jack swinging both legs around one after the other. Usually only the more acrobatic kung fu people do it. Olympic ice skaters do a similar move too but, I forget what it's called. A lot of the stars could do about anything. Not just HJL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted October 2, 2008 Member Share Posted October 2, 2008 jingangchan, you are a wealth of knowledge. on screen kicking (in my own opinion) is a touchy subject as far as i am concerned, simply because of the way one would express themselves through the kick on camera (to get a little lee philosophy). anyone can kick, but how it emulates the character's persona or emotion is another thing. are these kicks effective in real life? maybe. does it look sweet as hell and is the viewer convinced? that depends. that's why i like bruce lee and HJL. however, bruce was very against high kicks and at one point decided it was best not to practice them, seeing them as an opening for an opponent to capitalize on. chuck norris countered that with the notion of "hey, but what about just plain having the ABILITY to kick that high. you never know when you are going to need to". and over the years i tend to lean towards norris's way of thinking. plus i would just like to look cool doing it Anything can be effective given the right time, place and usage. The thing about the characters persona and emotion is a good point too. I think you wanted to say that anyone can learn to kick...and while that's true not everyone has the natural talent of a Lee Siu Lung, TTL, Donnie Yen or Hsia Kuang Li. Look at Jhoon Rhee in When TKD Strikes...he doesn't even look comparable to HJL, Donnie Yen or TTL but, he's supposed to be one of the top TKD people of all time. Similar goes for Lee Koon Hung. A lot of it is just talent and physical ability. As far as Brude Lee goes, I think he just advocated low kicks in real fights. In Kung Fu probably most styles at least practice high kicks, only to use low versions of those same kicks in fighting. White Crane-which Bruce demonstrated in his famous screen test-actually advocates high kicking at all times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted October 2, 2008 Member Share Posted October 2, 2008 A lot of the stars could do about anything. Not just HJL. Yeah, but could they look as cool?XD Hwang just strikes me as someone special. I have never seen anyone kick quite like he does. Like look at that kick he does when he jumps in the air and blocks someone's punch with both of his feet, and then kicks the dude. he does that all in the same jump. I've seen other people do that kick, but I haven't seen anyone do it as good as Hwang, or that could just be that they didn't have the leaping abilty of Hwang. And he does a lot of unique kicks that I've never seen anyone else do. Like in Buddha Assassinator towards the end of the final fight, he is holding Meng Hoi, and somehow he kicks once on the left side, then up higher on the right side, and then back to the left side. really really hard to explain, but I had to try. His one leg was going so fast from left to right, it almost looks like he is using two legs. And on top of all those unique kicks, it doesn't hurt that he is a great actor. As you can tell Hwang is like a god to me. I could talk forever about him. So sorry for rambling. And on that butterfly kick. I think I know what you are saying. it would be easy for people like Lee I Min and JAckie chan. Eagle Han could probably do it easier than Hwang because Eagle is decent at acrobatics, and Hwang must be poor at abrobatics because you almost never see him do any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted October 2, 2008 Member Share Posted October 2, 2008 Sorry, I didn't try to be a jerk and meant no sarcasm by it, just thought you meant that you disagreed with Bruce Lee having the best "single jump kick" before saying you didn't know what a "single jump kick" was. Blame my english. I see that my comment sounded a bit hostile, hence the ":p". It's cool. Bruce Lee's jumping sidekick was quite impressive as mentioned by Jingangchan. It seems once he learned the "trampoline" technique, (which he originally didn't take to), he became one of the best at utilizing this effect. He got amazing flexibility out of those aerial displays. Even going back to his Green Hornet days, he got great elevation on his Jumping sidekick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted October 2, 2008 Member Share Posted October 2, 2008 Bruce Lee could jump with anybody. Dragon have you seen that GOD footage where they are shooting the Kareem Abdul Jabaar fight? His jumping kicks were truly jaw dropping. I actually locked my jaw up when watching that footage. Good pain:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted October 3, 2008 Member Share Posted October 3, 2008 Yeah, but could they look as cool?XD Hwang just strikes me as someone special. I have never seen anyone kick quite like he does. Like look at that kick he does when he jumps in the air and blocks someone's punch with both of his feet, and then kicks the dude. he does that all in the same jump. I've seen other people do that kick, but I haven't seen anyone do it as good as Hwang, or that could just be that they didn't have the leaping abilty of Hwang. And he does a lot of unique kicks that I've never seen anyone else do. Like in Buddha Assassinator towards the end of the final fight, he is holding Meng Hoi, and somehow he kicks once on the left side, then up higher on the right side, and then back to the left side. really really hard to explain, but I had to try. His one leg was going so fast from left to right, it almost looks like he is using two legs. And on top of all those unique kicks, it doesn't hurt that he is a great actor. As you can tell Hwang is like a god to me. I could talk forever about him. So sorry for rambling. And on that butterfly kick. I think I know what you are saying. it would be easy for people like Lee I Min and JAckie chan. Eagle Han could probably do it easier than Hwang because Eagle is decent at acrobatics, and Hwang must be poor at abrobatics because you almost never see him do any. Yeah, my favorite HJL expression is from the "Eagle's Killer." It's an HJL classic-especially the movie opening. The thing about TKD is that after you get past the great kicking, there's not much left. No weapons and very little acrobatics, ground fighting, locks and holds. I think HJL is proficient in other Korean arts a bit of Kung Fu too though. I think HJL's kicks are so effective and awesome because he understands several important concepts. One is the use/positioning of the hips. The next is that he gets his knees/legs as high as possible before throwing a lot of kicks. Another is that he has developed the skill of chambering as little as possible before he goes into his jump kicks. HJL is to jump kicks what TTL is to grounded kicks (except I think TTL's flying side-kick might be better than HJL's). Eagle Han, Chui Jing Yat and Donnie Yen are in "God" status too in my book... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted October 3, 2008 Member Share Posted October 3, 2008 Bruce Lee could jump with anybody. Dragon have you seen that GOD footage where they are shooting the Kareem Abdul Jabaar fight? His jumping kicks were truly jaw dropping. I actually locked my jaw up when watching that footage. Good pain:D Yeah you're right, Morgoth. Those leaps at Kareem were without trampolines!!!???:o:o The man could really get off the ground. Had he lived to make more films, undoubtedly he would have "invented" more ideas! He probably would have even begun those Wang Cheng Li types of kicks, where you jump at the opponent and unleash a series of kicks in combination, without wires. Btw, in one of the many docs on Lee, one of his former comrades spoke of him learning a particular type of kick and mastering the kick in a matter of days, whereas the guy who showed Lee the kick, took a considerable longer period to learn the same kick. He could mimick others with dead-on precision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted October 3, 2008 Member Share Posted October 3, 2008 Dragon good thoughts. Bruce Lee definitely would have came up with some awesome kicks. It seems like there are no limits when you watch him in action. Jingangchan I think I know what you are saying how Hwang would chamber as little as possible. I like seeing full contact stuff, which he has done on a lot of his flying kicks (well, maybe not "full" contact), but being able to just lightly tap people with mulitlple kicks in a single jump is truly amazing. Eagle Han, Donnie, and Chui Jing Yat are all TOP notch in my book, but I just can't compare them to Hwang. But it's cool to know that you think of them like that. I have a few other actors that I give that status to. But being able to watch these actors, and then be able to talk about them in detail with you and all the other kung fu fanatics here, that's something special. Man I love this forum. I just had to say that:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted October 4, 2008 Member Share Posted October 4, 2008 One thing about HJL, he truly looks as if his kicks will actually hurt someone, even on film in an action sequence. No wonder JC lost a tooth on Snake in The Eagles Shadow. Power, and control, each time I watch him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted October 4, 2008 Member Share Posted October 4, 2008 I remember reading about Bruce's view of kicking in Chuck Norris's autobiography. Because of Bruce's Wing Chun training he didn't believe in kicking above the waist. Chuck told Bruce that a MA should be proficent enough to kick an opponent anywhere, not just below the waist. Bruce took Chuck's comment to heart and when he saw Bruce a few months later he said Bruce had practiced to where he could kick an opponent at any point on his body with speed, power and accuracy. When Bruce set his mind to do something, he could do it, in other words a natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Endsang Posted October 4, 2008 Member Share Posted October 4, 2008 One thing about HJL, he truly looks as if his kicks will actually hurt someone, even on film in an action sequence. No wonder JC lost a tooth on Snake in The Eagles Shadow. Power, and control, each time I watch him. I also read somewhere that Yuen Shun Yee had to rest for a few weeks to recover from the final kick he receives from Hwang at the start of SITES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted October 4, 2008 Member Share Posted October 4, 2008 :quiet:!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member theportlykicker Posted October 4, 2008 Member Share Posted October 4, 2008 No wonder JC lost a tooth on Snake in The Eagles Shadow. Power, and control, each time I watch him. Hmm, but if he had such good 'control', how come he ended up knocking Jackie's tooth out? Sounds like a bit of a contradiction. Haha, I kid. I know from experience that, no matter how much control someone has, accidents can happen during the shooting of a fight scene, but still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted October 4, 2008 Member Share Posted October 4, 2008 SITES was early in Hwang's career. His control was a lot better by 79-80. But still, like you said, accidents can happen, especially when you kick over 100 times in a movie. Probably 1000 kicks with all the rehearsal and doing takes over and over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted October 4, 2008 Member Share Posted October 4, 2008 I also read somewhere that Yuen Shun Yee had to rest for a few weeks to recover from the final kick he receives from Hwang at the start of SITES. Don't you mean Drunken MAster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Endsang Posted October 5, 2008 Member Share Posted October 5, 2008 Don't you mean Drunken MAster? Yup, sorry. I mixed up the openings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted October 5, 2008 Member Share Posted October 5, 2008 Dragon good thoughts. Bruce Lee definitely would have came up with some awesome kicks. It seems like there are no limits when you watch him in action. Jingangchan I think I know what you are saying how Hwang would chamber as little as possible. I like seeing full contact stuff, which he has done on a lot of his flying kicks (well, maybe not "full" contact), but being able to just lightly tap people with mulitlple kicks in a single jump is truly amazing. Eagle Han, Donnie, and Chui Jing Yat are all TOP notch in my book, but I just can't compare them to Hwang. But it's cool to know that you think of them like that. I have a few other actors that I give that status to. But being able to watch these actors, and then be able to talk about them in detail with you and all the other kung fu fanatics here, that's something special. Man I love this forum. I just had to say that:D When it comes to jump kicks there is virtually no one I compare to HJL...but, when it comes to "grounded" more conventional kicks I often say the same about TTL. Then when it comes to flexibility and "stretch" kicks, there is virtually no one I compare to Chui Jing Yat and/or Hsai Kuang Li. Then, when it comes to total variety, people like Donnie Yen come into play. It all depends on what you think are the best or most spectacular techniques or what perspective you are viewing from. I don't however, argue with anyone who places HJL at the top of the list. It's good to be able to talk to people about HK Cinema so I agree with you there. Back when most of these movies were made, such a forum was not really even possible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jingangchan Posted October 5, 2008 Member Share Posted October 5, 2008 I remember reading about Bruce's view of kicking in Chuck Norris's autobiography. Because of Bruce's Wing Chun training he didn't believe in kicking above the waist. Chuck told Bruce that a MA should be proficent enough to kick an opponent anywhere, not just below the waist. Bruce took Chuck's comment to heart and when he saw Bruce a few months later he said Bruce had practiced to where he could kick an opponent at any point on his body with speed, power and accuracy. When Bruce set his mind to do something, he could do it, in other words a natural. People often forget that Bruce Lee studied more than Wing Chun when he was young. He learned some other Kung Fu which included more than just low kicks. For example, he demonstrated White Crane in his amous screen test. I'm not saying what Chuck said was wrong but, I've heard more than one person claim he "taught or convinced Bruce to kick high." For example Al Dacascus said something like that in an old issue of IKF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted October 7, 2008 Member Share Posted October 7, 2008 That could be true, I'm just stating what chuck said. He did do some White Crane forms in his screen test and probably did pick up some techniques from that style but Chuck said the only formal training he had was in Wing Chun. I don't know much about White Crane KF or their kicks, but I think Bruce did probably pick up alot of kicks from Chuck's and maybe Jhoon Rhee's Korean style as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member instant noodles Posted October 10, 2009 Member Share Posted October 10, 2009 Tan Tao Liang,John Liu and Hwang Jang Lee are the ones I like most.There might be others equally skilled I do not know indie kung-fu films very well. Of modern day movie stars I have always liked Donnie Yen a lot.His kicks appear fast and accurate.And he is good with flying/jumpkicks also:smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member thehangman Posted October 10, 2009 Member Share Posted October 10, 2009 Yuen biao is a great kicker checkout his kick at the end of righting wrongs against melvin wong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member AlbertV Posted October 12, 2009 Member Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yuen Biao nearly gives Tan Tao Liang a run for his money with his kicking in Knockabout...I said nearly LOL Tsui Jing-Yat impressed me in Shaolin Drunken Monk (as Eagle Han's henchman in the end) and License to Steal (one of Agnes Aurelio's hitmen...really shines in the garage fight). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member SimonMW Posted October 12, 2009 Member Share Posted October 12, 2009 but being able to just lightly tap people with mulitlple kicks in a single jump is truly amazing. I dunno, I've seen a fair few Hwang films where he has full chamber on those kicks and is clearly putting something into them. Lackey and the Lady Tiger is one example. when it comes to "grounded" more conventional kicks I often say the same about TTL. I think HJL pretty much beats everyone hands down. Hwangs grounded kicks are pure power and as we know from various accounts could use them to devastating effect in real life. TTL's kicks were nice to watch, but I find them too tippy tappy now, and the quality from film to film was not consistent. The Himalayan was good, and probably my favourite TTL film. but Chuck said the only formal training he had was in Wing Chun. Wrong. Bruce had formal training in Crane before Wing Chun. There was an interview with his teacher on one of the first Bruce Lee documentaries (can't remember the name of it since I usually switch off when anything Bruce Lee related is mentioned). Mind you, he is still influencing people. I was once sat in a room with Don Wilson when a projection of the uncut Long Beach footage was shown. Bruce did some sparring and did a high kick. Don leaped up after it had finished to say how he'd never noticed how Bruce had generated his power in his roundhouse kick until then. He was really truly excited by his new discovery! That said, Bruces kicks were fairly rudimentary. They got the job done on screen and there was beauty in their simplicity, but they weren't the greatest. Yuen Biao nearly gives Tan Tao Liang a run for his money with his kicking in Knockabout...I said nearly LOL Not surprising given it was TTL who taught him Someone who was underrated kicking wise was Roy Horan, who of course was a student of HJL. He clearly exhibits some of the same fluidity and style as Hwang, even if his awful hairstyles often distracted attention away from them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chia Ling AKA Judy Lee Posted October 12, 2009 Member Share Posted October 12, 2009 Tsui Jing-Yat impressed me in Shaolin Drunken Monk (as Eagle Han's henchman in the end) and License to Steal (one of Agnes Aurelio's hitmen...really shines in the garage fight). Bi Wun aka Tsui Jing-Yat is a wicked fighter mate! Definitely worth checking out his other Korean work, particularly Invincible Obsessed Fighter. I need to work my through his new school stuff now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Monk Sante Posted October 15, 2009 Member Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hwang Jang Lee no doubt is the best screen kicker of all time, the guy should get a life time achievement award for his work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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