Flash Point (2007)

[Guest theportlykicker]

What's up with that last poster. While it looks pretty cool the credits at the bottom are actually for Shawshank Redemption???

:rollin WTF happened there?!

[Guest dyenboy]

holy crap..wat a review..not on bad thing..i can't wait..i knew it would be badass

[Guest Beat TG]

Warning: may contain spoilers!

By Elhcay:

"The movie opens and concludes with Donnie Yen thinking out aloud, "Have I ever wronged anyone? I'll leave it to the judge to decide. I'm a cop... my duty is to catch the thieves." From those words, you can tell that he means business and so does this film. And this pretty much sums up the whole movie, to the point and effective. The elegance of this movie lies in its directness and simplicity. While it follows SPL concept of bad guys get away due to lack of evidence and eventually cops get so pissed off and flout all rules to get them, the movie is less grim, less dark, not as atmospheric and takes place in a somewhat zany world (albeit without getting silly) where something somewhat loony would take place here and there, yet at the same time maintaining an earnest tone. So there are times logic is being put aside. While SPL carries the underlying theme of father, Flash Point centres on maternal ties. The movie, which was apparently based on real events, does a good job in taking time to establish the shimmering characters. It has a sparkling soundtrack that fits the mood. (I must say I can't stand one second of the jarring techno, heavy metal stuff in Invisible Target.) The film can get quite violent at times, insofar as there's apparently some disputes over the film classification in HK that release is being pushed back by a week to Aug 9.

In a way, Flash Point is unequivocally an SPL prequel (This may explain why they'd want to call the film SPL 2 initially. However, Gold Label, which holds the rights did not allow them use the name as it is reportedly working on its own version of SPL 2.) with the focus being on Ma Jun of the renegade star Army Breaker, when he's still an extremely violent super-cop of one track mind - to catch the criminals at whatever costs. He has the sadistic tendency to seriously injure the criminals he is after, and derives satisfaction out of it, he makes sure that he finishes up the job by cuffing up the incapacitated victim - dead or alive. Thus, he always lands himself in awkward situations with his superiors. However, being a loner, non-conformist, he always defies authorities - often to great comical effect. Fancy Donnie Yen being relieved of his duties as an investigator and made to conduct a band? Such are the oddball relations between Donnie Yen and other cops that something funny would bound to happen whenever there's another cop around.

Xing Yu carries himself very well, standing out as a brash, straightforward guy who resolves everything with his fists. Unfortunately he was not given enough time to give full play to his martial arts skills - all his action scenes are rather short. Still, it's amazing to see him running over the chairs and tables, seemingly unassisted by wires, that could topple any minute.

There are sporadic action scenes throughout the film, but they're all rather short. I thought they're being a little too stingy with length. With Invisible Target, you get desensitised with over-dosage of action, but Flash Point just leaves you wanting for more. There are two or three places which could definitely benefit from having extended action scenes without getting in the way of drama: at the beginning in which the three brothers are attacked by their rival Lin Guo Bin/Lin Kwok Pun, Xing Yu-Donnie Yen showdown near the end (Reportedly Xing Yu eardrum was shattered by Donnie Yen when filming this scene. Maybe that's why it's it was kept short.), and the opening scene whereby Donnie Yen storms the boxing training facility (How about putting the unseen martial artists from around the globe to block Donnie Yen before he could catch his target there?).

In the finale, we get an intense, superbly shot gunfight, followed by the excellent Donnie vs Ngai Sing exchange of fists. The camera was a mite too close in the beginning when the fight breaks out in a storage room on the 2nd floor. Thankfully, this was addressed quickly once they get to the ground floor. In the middle, there's a splendid scene in which they go freestyle for 2 rounds, with missed hits, bad synchronisations, all executed at incredible speed, similar to the fight between Donnie Yen - Wu Jing in SPL. However, it is reduced too early to a one-man show, as Ngai Sing loses out too soon and is already limping in the last 2/5 of the fight, getting beaten up only.

The martial arts scenes in Flash Point are more evolutionary than revolutionary. If you've seen SPL, you'd know what to expect here. But this time around, there are more interactions with the environment. However, I don't like too much takedowns, chokes, ground holds, and all that, which feel sluggish, as in the case of the finale between Donnie Yen and Ngai Sing (or Sammo Hung vs Donnie Yen for that matter). Mixed Martial Arts or not, I still prefer trading of fists and kicks.

Wilson Yip is the man, and together with Donnie Yen and Szeto Kam Yuen, they pack a delightful and uproarious punch."

[Guest skulldugrey]

so, to the last reviewer, in your opinion is it better than Invisible Target? I'm still waiting for the LoveHKFilm.com review, but the one over at Heroic Cinema gave it only a 5/10 and claims it's dissapointing! however, they also gave Ab-Normal Beauty a 7/10 so I'm not sure they're trustworthy! anyway, I'm not so concerned with the quantity of action, but is the quality of the action and the overall film better than Invisible Target?

[Guest Beat TG]

I'm not so concerned with the quantity of action, but is the quality of the action and the overall film better than Invisible Target?

I wouldn't easily take Heroic Cinema's words for that.:lol

as for Flash Point being inferior to Invisible Target... to hell with that! Benny Chan can certainly deliver his action scenes (in a lame way) but he sucks at everything else.

[Guest D1 Ma]

Wow! I'm not crazy about Invisible Target,( though I liked it), so if FP is even worse....

I hope it's not true. Donnie claimed that the action is very real and down to earth and that's what I wanna see.

IT had way too much sugar glass broken, to the point of being ridiculous, lots of wire-assisted falls, jumps and kicks and all that VERY fake easy-breakable furniture put me off.

While action was good and inventive, very often it looked really fake and unnatural.

I think fights in FP are gonna be very good----------

[Guest skulldugrey]

as I said, for them giving the crappy Ab-Normal Beauty a 7/10 made me wonder about their credibility! and for them to give Flash Point a 5, they're probably out of their minds, but I don't wanna spend all that money to go see it at TIFF and be even slightly dissapointed, but to me the movie looks awesome from the trailers, so I'll just ignore that review! I also want to see Invisible Target, but I'm hoping that its more of a warm up to Flash Point, which I honestly think looks like the best action film of the year, period.

[Guest Beat TG]

skulldugrey, my post wasn't intended for you (the second paragraph), just talked my head off. don't worry.

[bboyninku]

Flash Point is killing the Chinese box office! With the massive piracy over there, this should be a very good sign fellas! Let the Flash Point buzz begin!!!! This movie is gonna kill any other martial arts related movie this year!

[Guest Beat TG]

LoveHKFilm review: www.lovehkfilm.com/review...hpoint.htm

[Guest Chen Zhen]

boy was that finale crazy. i havent been this impressed with donnie yen action in.....well....ever

[Guest Beat TG]

not impressed by SPL?

[Guest Chen Zhen]

dont get me wrong man....i love SPL.......but i didnt think the fighting lived up to that ridiculous level of hype that it got....both fights with wu jing and sammo had flaws that irritated me, but i still enjoyed them quite a bit.....everytime i watch the fight i find more things that bug me bout them.....but it was the atmosphere of the film as a whole that made a longer impression.

[Guest D1 Ma]

Since some of HK movies exist in two different versions( like SPL or Fatal Contact), it makes sense to watch both. That’s why I decided to watch a pirated Mandarin-dubbed copy of Flash Point.

Well, I don’t know where to start. I don’t feel like writing a real review, so I’ll just post some random thoughts.

I really liked the beginning when all the characters were introduced. The best part for me was to see Ben Lam, whom I happened to like from the old days. I didn’t know he’s in this movie, so it was a pleasant surprise. It was also nice to see Kent Cheng, who has aged and thinned out.

And, of cause, Ngai Sing. The guy was like a breath of fresh air, like something teleported from the Golden Era of HK cinema, so energetic and agile. I definitely liked the beginning!

After that the movie slowly drags along and after 30 mins I suddenly realize, that a third of the movie is already over and there’s nothing good about it. Not only that, pretty soon Ben Lam is out of picture without a fight, Kent Cheng is also out. There are tiny bits of action, but it’s very generic and doesn’t offer anything exciting. Most of it on a “see Spot run†level. Finally, the movie crawls to the first real fight between Donnie and I think, Xing Yu. Again, it’s more of Hollywood style brawl, somewhat violent and fast, rather than an intricate MA choreography. Nothing mindblowing.

At this point I thought that I liked two things about the movie. First of all, the smoking. People actually smoke in HK movies! And I don’t mean the baddies, the heroes smoke, too.( Also, in Invisible Target.) I’m not a smoker, but I resent the fact that in Hollywood movies cigarettes disappeared because of the current agenda. Another thing I liked, was the scene, where the bad guy was shaking a little girl, holding her upside down and then throwing her on the concrete. Again, it’s not that I liked the act of violence, I liked the fact that they are not afraid to show it. Something you don’t see in Hollywood.

Back to the movie. At one hour mark, the only word stuck in my mind was “Crap-crap-crap-crap!â€

Finally, we got to the finale. â€It should be REALLY good to redeem that movie!†I thought. It starts with a shootout. Nothing special, but at this point I was happy to see ANY action at all. When action stopped for a while( some of it was plain laughable), I thought that many of those cheepos from the 80-90s, shot in Thailand or Philippines, had better action! If this movie were shot and shown back in the 80s, it wouldn’t make $1000 at the box-office

The fight between Donnie and Ngai Sing. Very weird. NS tries to do the typical kickboxing, while Donnie is obsessed with judo throws and locks.. And these two styles don’t mix. To me it looked, like one of the guys is in the wrong movie. Donnie can’t understand, that it’s good to try something different and have your own unique style, BUT only as long as it looks good. But he tries to be different by putting the most stupid, the most lame @#%$ in his movies.(Like his other crapfests – Ballistic Kiss and Legend of the Wolf – the only thought of these films just made me shudder). He should choreograph WWF fights.

After they beat each other for a while, the fight stops abruptly, and then we have the stupidest, corniest scene I ever seen . I was laughing.

The second part of the fight. This time Donnie also adds some moves from Muai Thai or something like that. Nothing spectacular, half-way decent. Donnie dominates, throwing poor NS all over the place. I really felt sorry for the guy. It seems, that he rarely gets to show what he got. (I mean, Dick Wei made a carrier playing bad guys, but even if he looses in almost every movie, he still gets to shine and show his skills). So, Donnie beats the crap outta him in another brawlish fight and that’s it. The End. Then we have some outtakes, mostly showing Donnie’s and the crew training. Outtakes actually looked better than most of the movie.

I don’t know if HK version is any different from Mainland one, but that China version of Crap Point really sucked. And the plot? It actually made TYG’s plot look like an Oscar worthy material. I mean, it couldn’t be any more primitive. One can describe it in two sentences. I may be overreacting because of disappointment and action is not THAT bad, but nonetheless it’s a really poor movie

You can say that I had High expectations because of all the hype, but you’d be wrong. I didn’t expect anything really great from Donnie and I didn’t want to be disappointed. That’s why I tried to avoid any news about the movie and only watched the very first teaser once. Hell, I didn’t even know that Ben Lam’s in there!

So, I gotta say, Invisible target is WAY better plot-wise, action-wise, actors-wise.

[Guest Beat TG]

The fight between Donnie and Ngai Sing. Very weird. NS tries to do the typical kickboxing, while Donnie is obsessed with judo throws and locks.. And these two styles don’t mix. To me it looked, like one of the guys is in the wrong movie. Donnie can’t understand, that it’s good to try something different and have your own unique style, BUT only as long as it looks good. Donnie can’t understand, that it’s good to try something different and have your own unique style, BUT only as long as it looks good. But he tries to be different by putting the most stupid, the most lame @#%$ in his movies.

eh... that's why it's called MMA... you fight with any possible style you can use under every circumstances. what if two styles are thrown at each other? why was it a flaw? why can't it work? why can't there be other kinds of MA choreography? perhaps it's wasn't the typical HK choreography you expected in the first. or maybe you're just thinking from a HK choreography point of view... this isn't even HK choreography so that might explain your thoughts.

And the plot? It actually made TYG’s plot look like an Oscar worthy material.

the story in Flash Point (which is straight-forward I agree) has more depth than a story of a man who seeks his stolen elephant thoughout Australia. don't even start... :rollin

So, I gotta say, Invisible target is WAY better plot-wise, action-wise, actors-wise.

yet benny Chan ruined all this with his poor ability to direct drama. there's no depth whatsoever: acting, story, music... hell, even the action are dragged by this lame direction, which makes the whole movie rather "trying too much" that ends up failing (as often the case with Benny Chan's movies). Rather Flash Point (which is 100 times deeper) than an embarrassing movie like IT.

action-wise IT's fights were just shallow (no intensity, no drama, no nothing) whereas Flash Point was just pure, original choreography that had everything a real choreography process should be like (intensity, drama, flowery etc.).

[Guest D1 Ma]

I agree that the fights in FP are raw and intence, but they are more like brawls. Donnie wanted to make them look more like real-life fights, but:

1 they still don't look like real life fights

2 he's making a movie and movie fights "supposed" to be cinematographic. They should be good looking, intricate and exciting. That's what they invented back in the 80s and perfected it. His choreography is different, but not original(Bruce used armlocks back in the 70s and Sammo back in the 80s). But Bruce and Sammo understood that a fight should look good on screen, that's why they used flashy moves and innovative choreography. That's why we have good real-life fighters that look bad onscreen and that's why many of good onscreen fighters aren't really fighters off-screen. As I said, it looks like Donnie doesn't understand it.

As far as mixing different styles and displaying different styles.

Just look at ITLOD4 or tigercage2 - when Donnie fights Michael Woods. His wrestling moves blend perfectly with Donnie's kickboxing. Traditional kung fu blends perfectly with modern day kickboxing (Pedicab Driver, Angry Ranger, Fatal Combat). Donnie's choreography in FP simply doesn't work( at least, for me). And I like when they display different styles - Seagal with Aikido, Speakman with Kenpo, Jaa with Muai Thai - they all look great. Donnie's choreography just doesn't do it for me. He can have all the reasons in the world for doing his kind of choreo, he's not gonna convince me.

Those fights in FP may be good for a Hollywood movie, but it's not what I expect from a HK movie...

I almost forgot. Jaa has a GREAT brawl in OngBak and a GREAT bone-breaking scene in TYG. Different , but GREAT looking. Donnie's stuff is different, but not that good

About the plot:)

Looking for a stolen elephant - at least it's original and meaningful for Thai's. Plus we have a weird transvestite mafia boss, Exotic food restaurants, gigantic bodyguards, skateboarding gangs, stupid cops and tons of other crap. In FP we have a cop who wants to revenge for his friends. Hasn't it been done to death?

[Guest Beat TG]

1 they still don't look like real life fights

that's the point, otherwise it wouldn't look right.

he's making a movie and movie fights "supposed" to be cinematographic. They should be good looking, intricate and exciting. That's what they invented back in the 80s and perfected it.

which was clearly what he accomplished: an exciting, intense and overall cinematograpic fight scene, thanks to Wilson Yip's direction, coupled with Donnie's style. and this isn't the 80s anymore... people want new stuff and Fatal Contact, Invisible Target (typical, tiresome choreography) are movies that as a whole doesn't work as well as how that kind of choreography was still new in its heyday.

His choreography is different, but not original(Bruce used armlocks back in the 70s and Sammo back in the 80s).

Bruce used MMA before and the same with Sammo but to less degree. Donnie incorporated the MMA elements as a whole process rather than partly. Sammo could never have accomplished something like this and Bruce would've accomplished it in a different way if he was still alive today. so in every way, it's original.

But Bruce and Sammo understood that a fight should look good on screen, that's why they used flashy moves and innovative choreography. That's why we have good real-life fighters that look bad onscreen and that's why many of good onscreen fighters aren't really fighters off-screen. As I said, it looks like Donnie doesn't understand it.

actually, what Donnie did was the other way around: adding realism into the choreography that still had to look as gracefully and intense as whole. Donnie knew that making them too realistic could make them too real and boring (he had this in mind when he made SPL as well). the result are fights that looks more realistic yet plays alot with rhythm and smoothness that overall separates it from general HK choreography. so it's you that clearly don't understand the whole process.

Just look at ITLOD4 or tigercage2 - when Donnie fights Michael Woods. His wrestling moves blend perfectly with Donnie's kickboxing. Traditional kung fu blends perfectly with modern day kickboxing (Pedicab Driver, Angry Ranger, Fatal Combat).

and that was Donnie's purpose of shooting such similar fights differently for Flash Point.

And I like when they display different styles - Seagal with Aikido, Speakman with Kenpo, Jaa with Muai Thai - they all look great.

Tony Jaa has more than just muay thai/thai MA... wushu, tae kwon do and gymnastics. yeah, that's pure muay thai there.:lol

Those fights in FP may be good for a Hollywood movie, but it's not what I expect from a HK movie...

are you still stuck in the 80s are what? is it that hard to move on?

I almost forgot. Jaa has a GREAT brawl in OngBak and a GREAT bone-breaking scene in TYG. Different , but GREAT looking. Donnie's stuff is different, but not that good

Jaa's brawls are too one-sided: attacks and flips that are being displayed over and over. different but too repeatitive and boring and the choreography process is partly. Donnie's choreography has more variety, has more creativity to it and works great as a whole that is just enjoyable to watch.

Looking for a stolen elephant - at least it's original and meaningful for Thai's. Plus we have a weird transvestite mafia boss, Exotic food restaurants, gigantic bodyguards, skateboarding gangs, stupid cops and tons of other crap. In FP we have a cop who wants to revenge for his friends. Hasn't it been done to death?

Flash Point isn't about revenge actually. but at least they have great directors/actors/composers/scriptwriters/action choreographers/cinematographers to make up for simplified movies and make them more believable and exciting than the simpler Ong Bak and TYG (both are very poor in execution). has thai films gone through all things like HK when it comes to general film technology?

[Guest D1 Ma]

I understand what you're saying, but you're a diehard DY's fan

As for me, I really stuck in the Golden Era Thank God, they made SO many flicks back then, that still I can gig up an unseen movie and enjoy it 20 yrs after it was made:)

(Recently I watched Ghost Punting for the first time and the fights were wicked! Actually, Sammo brakes a baddie's leg in this movie using MMA )

That's why I enjoyed fights in Fatal Contact or Undisputed-2 - they remind me of the 80s Traditional, but yet they were modernized just right

Donnie is too avant-garde for my tastes

Just one thing I wanna mentioned: my point was that Bruce or Sammo COULD choreograph a long, complicated MMA fight( they definitely knew the stuff), but they CHOSE not to. Because they KNEW it wouldnt look good onscreen.(Bruce was especially obsessed with that. He wanted to put on a show,Even though he knew that most of his movie stuff was for showing off ) .That's why they just used little bits, just to spice up the action, make it a bit different.

Donnie bluntly makes the whole fight using MMA, like he's the only one who could think of that. (Sometimes I think he does it simply because he CAN'T choreograph a really good fight, as he's not Yen Woo Ping or Sammo. So he uses different gimmicks - from ridiculous undercranking(which ruined his fight with Ngai Sing in The City of Darkness) to extensive use of MMA.

[Guest Beat TG]

I'm not a diehard fan actually. I despise the majority of his movies and only favorize like 9-11 movies of them. but I have huge respect for him as an AD. he can definitely come up with different ideas any time he works on a project. It doesn't always work though but Flash Point truly succeeded.

Donnie is too avant-garde for my tastes

go stick to tiresome choreography then.

[Guest Chen Zhen]

whoa whoa whoa, freeze, stop the presses.....

d1ma, ur not REALLY trying to defend that monstrosity of a movie known as Tom Yum Goong are you? not talking about the action (which is solid, not mindblowing to me.....not anymore at least)...TYG is the worst "movie" ive seen in recent memory

[Guest Chen Zhen]

I'm not a diehard fan actually

:rollin

cmon bro.....who are u trying to kid? i thought u were Donnie's personal publicist for Flashpoint and donnie's other movies

and before u mention anything about my enjoyment of Corey Yuen's work.....stop, cuz i already forsaw it

[Guest Beat TG]

:lol

that's another story because it's more specifically, not generic.

I don't mind your sarcasm. at least we can go "insulting" each other without things getting spiced up.

[Guest D1 Ma]

He-he! I was joking about TYG! Personally I think Ong Bak was much better in every department

[Guest Beat TG]

Just one thing I wanna mentioned: my point was that Bruce or Sammo COULD choreograph a long, complicated MMA fight( they definitely knew the stuff), but they CHOSE not to. Because they KNEW it wouldnt look good onscreen.(Bruce was especially obsessed with that. He wanted to put on a show,Even though he knew that most of his movie stuff was for showing off ) .That's why they just used little bits, just to spice up the action, make it a bit different.

if Sammo knows the stuff then he would've done it years before Donnie did that. in conclusion, Sammo never knew MMA (or general foreign styles) that much because he never studied them properly. Sammo cared more about fluidity, intensity, and complexity in his choreography and those occassional elements were there to make the fight scenes broken up and varied, nothing more.

Bruce would be the closest of accomplishing something like this though (seeing as he and Donnie have very similar training and knowledge in MA), yet I don't think Bruce would've accomplished Donnie's way of doing MMA except in a different way.

Donnie bluntly makes the whole fight using MMA, like he's the only one who could think of that. (Sometimes I think he does it simply because he CAN'T choreograph a really good fight, as he's not Yen Woo Ping or Sammo.

he's doing it because no one has or dares to take HK choreography to a whole new level. that's why he chooses not to choreograph "really good fights" that Woo Ping and Sammo have already done countless times in the 80s, 90s and onwards (which has become so clichéd). Donnie chooses to be more varied and inconsistent instead.

[Guest Egocentrik1]

Well,what I didnt like was that Donnie used in the 2 first short fights those bjj moves..we all know mma is the new hype but the short fight in the disco..the way he finished the guy off was kinda unrealistic..I kinda find the fights like

"look I use grappling now" he could have used it a little bit more in a decent way..I thought he kinda over-used it...

Nevertheless,the fights still rock and the last time I was that amazed about a fight scene was when I watched ong bak 4 the first time...

and by the way mma is not a style its a concept...

I believe it will take some time till we see anything better coming out...