Ti Lung/David Chiang hate?

[Guest SunChien2004]

I mentioned this in the Classic Kung Fu board, but with no answer, what's the story behind the Ti Lung/David Chiang hate? If there is any, that is.

[Guest Liu chung liang]

what? them hating eachother? lol. i got nothing against both guys. if i had to choose whoze movies i like watching better... it be david chiang. i like his 'kung fu' flicks more than his 'swordplay' ones.

[Guest Iron Boat]

"what? them hating eachother? lol. i got nothing against both guys. if i had to choose whoze movies i like watching better... it be david chiang. i like his 'kung fu' flicks more than his 'swordplay' ones."

That's interesting because he is more known for his swordplay films but a few of his Kung Fu films are "imo" some of the better kung fu films of the era, The Loot, The Challenger, Shaolin Mantis, Blooded Treasury Fight,

[Guest Liu chung liang]

yeah but i've seen too many swordplay flicks... that i'm getting tired of it. even if it's ti lung using a sword, i just don't find it amusing anymore.

i think it's weird to see someone like norman chu do kung fu than david chiang. because i can only picture him using a sword lol.

[Guest SunChien2004]

I think I meant their hate towards one another, I saw that in one of the threads in the Classic Kung Fu Film section, so that's why I was curious, if there is none, then I guess disregard it.

[Guest mahsingyi]

Asked for a verdict on the relations between former "blood brothers" Ti Lung and David Chiang, one could not call their recent relationship hate but antipathy and indifference.

But how did two superstars who shaped the history of Hong Kong cinema become that way?

Well, against the initial considerations and the initial professional hindsight of Chang Cheh (Please bear in mind, that David Chiang was (not at least due to family obligations) a favoured protégé of the superstar director) young Tam Fu Yung got his start in the biz. Instead of simply replacing Wang Yu, who was slowly on his way out of SB and had a deep rift with Cheh going on, Cheh had been forced into a dilemma of being overruled by the main studio executive, who really ran the show on behalf of Run Run Shaw, despite being the “million dollar director†and main attraction of the franchise. He had chosen Chiang as his next superstar, but had now to integrate a second utterly handsome, but professionally lacking actor (He would gain respect for the “other guy†in the years to come and would finally and support his “second choice†more than his main protégé).

So, instead of being the brand new male top star, Chiang became only one third of the “iron triangle†that would take the box offices around the globe by storm. The start of the career the remaining third of this trio was largely due to the influence of said studio executive Mona Fong, who favoured the “other†actor to lure female audiences into the cinemas (She is also rumoured to be solely responsible for Tam’s stage name “Ti Lungâ€, a close verbal derivation of the name “Alain Delonâ€, her favourite movie star at the time of French dominance of the film market).

For nine years, between 1969 and 1977, both actors starred together in no less than 29 movies (attention SB movie trivia fans: only three of those 29 were not created under the influence or collaboration by Chang Cheh but rather by Chu Yuan (x2) and Li Han Hsiang (x1)), an output that speaks for their greed to live with severe private differences rather than give up lucrative revenue streams and stakes. Chiang started his career with a bang, getting awards and applause while Lung took the back seat in many cases. Then came 1973 and Lung took the critics by storm (Blood Brothers) for the first but not the last time. By 1974, both had financial stakes in SB, as well as in Cheh’s new company Chang’s Films Ltd, which was operating out of Taiwan to burn tax-bound funds for Shaw’s. During their most prosperous times together they had been awarded with kick backs and extra payments and it started to emerge that Lung cashed in more than Chiang. Still, the SB PR department refused to acknowledge problems (first the hassle over top star billing on the posters and in news coverage, then the rift between both due to their private life (the love triangle of Chiang with Lily Li and his later wife, which was despised by Lung and his wife who had rather conservative ideas. Then Chiang hit back with references to Lung’s former love Li Ching and to an alleged affair with Ching Li and another HK socialite), and finally their respective careers and future paths (Lung started to collaborate with other directors, Chiang (at the end) had to beg for starring roles before leaving the studio to go down the hill until it was only TV work and the odd cameo, whilst Lung (after kicking his alcohol problems) started a second and third career culminating in awards and global recognition).

The public relations bubble about two superstars being close friends, colleagues and business partners burst in 1975, after, in the course of the filming of “Empress Dowagerâ€, it became clear that both had severe clashes on and off the set. Slowly, the bigwigs started to realise that their favourite milking cows had no future together. By the time “Naval Commandos†and “Death Duel†were filmed both actors could not even be forced to be together at the same set, let alone to appear in the same scenes. The even had contracts that stipulated that fact and it is rumoured that libel lawsuits had been filed between the two stars.

In the years until now, there had been several attempts to bring them together, but to this day, they refuse to be seen together at all. They even “could not attend†the funeral festivities of their mentor Chang Cheh together and despite being offered major §§§ they refuse to walk on the same side of the street together let alone attend some functions or share another single moment on the silver screen. Too much porcelain has been shattered and despite official lip services when asked in public about their relations (it goes as far as not answering or ignoring questions or giving thin lipped standard empty phrases praising each others contributions to their life) or niceties mumbled in hushed style, there is only a chance of a snowball in hell, that both see or speak to each other again.

[Guest peringaten]

Wow, interesting stuff - cheers Mahsingyi. Amazing the rapport they shared on screen in spite of difficulties.

Might not have much relevance, and I might be looking speculatively too far into it or be completely wrong, but Derek Yee was David Chiang's half-brother right? I wonder how close he was with Chiang, and whether this ever effected any relations on set with Ti Lung in the films Yee and Ti Lung appeared in after the triangle stint...

[Guest mahsingyi]

I have found two more excerpts after someone complained about some SB reviews regarding D. Chiang...

You took some time to answer and it is most appreciated. Now, dont get me wrong. I don't favour Lung over Chiang and if I go on (and I did so in many articles on different sites) to take a close view on Ti Lung (alcohol problems, the rocky relationship with Li Ching and their gambling problems that drove them apart, etc.) then there would be much to rap about. Now (as I have only a few minutes on my hands) a quick response to the Cheh/Lung/Chiang issue:

In official interviews Ti Lung always mentions Chang Cheh as a positive influence and as an "uncle" figure who pointed him into the right directions concerning directing and acting. He always states that without Cheh there won't be the successful actor Lung. But, Jen you're somewhat right, ... it is partly true that he never really forgave Cheh for letting him play second fiddle in the "iron triangle" collaborations. If SB would not have the then very influental lover of Sir Run Run, a certain Mona Fong, then Lung would probably have matched the faith of "eternal co-stars" such as Wang Chung, (to a degree) Chen Kuan Tai, Ku Feng or Cheng Lui. It was she that forced young Lung onto the screen in prolific starring roles, despite Cheh heavily endorsing and nurturing Chiang. But as Cheh saw the real potential of Lung (who is clearly an actor that meanwhile has surpassed every honour and career heights his real life foe Chiang previously had accummulated in the early 70ies) and gave him more sole starring roles in his movies than his real protege.

The reason Lung did not attend Cheh's funeral lies in the relationship between Lung and Chiang. Both are avoiding each other like the plaque. It is impossible to get them together at any occasion, they would never attend a function or even a date with the press together. The animosities go so deep (also strenghtened by the animosities between both spouses) that they would never even walk the same street at the same time. It's basically a "never forget, never forgive situation". So Lung sent his son instead...

And here is a summary of a little piece I did in another website forum:

Now, after a first short and perhaps brusque answer to your post, I have some spare time on my hands to elaborate, to explain and to state why my SB movie reviews at SCDC seem to be anti-David Chiang Da Wei (a presumption that, in reality and without a hindered sight due to tainted glasses of fandom, is far from true since several of my reviews are also either praising or acknowledging his work and roles):

Just for the record: Chiang had more feuds running and more foes than friends in the film business. After completely losing his superstar status in Asia (starting in the mid-70ies) and being reduced to Indie- and then TV-work his temper even got worse. Perhaps all he was lacking was an able and willing spin doctor...

Now being a fan of an actor/actress and to stubbornly defend them to the hilt is nice, but don't forget that they are just simple human beings with all faults and problems. Faults and problems that might shock you and that you perhaps don't want to hear...but facts nonetheless that are of utmost interest to the majority of readers and viewers. Because the roles they play on the silver screen don't reflect their private lives or their business decisions. Because you want to know more about a person you adore and whorship! And not at least because, if you believe their PR-enhanced or altered personas, then you are lead-on and merely day dreaming...and you don't want that to happen, now do you?!?

Now, let's take a few old and modern-day examples and comparisons: Take Doris Day: This grand lady and able actress of the screen in the 50ies played dozens of beautiful comedies, impersonating holier-than-holy female leads with morals, whilst being a drug-and-sex-crazed woman who was a complete slut in her real private daily life. When the films played in the cinemas, the critics and those in-the-know pointed towards her often severe private shortcomings. They only showed the truth behind studio walls and wrote about the scandals as an extra for an interested audience. Sure, you could still be a heavy fan of her despite those facts, but if you think that her roles, no matter how brilliantly played reflect anything closely resembling real life...you are nothing short of stupid. So you can love a person despite his/her shortcomings, but you should not put them on a pedestal where they don't belong, no matter what their achievements are.

Take Tom Cruise: This is an actor who has a devoted following of millions and millions around the globe. Even if he would win an Oscar one day (which is IMO very doubtful), it would not diminish the truth that he is a maniac control freak that would rather let the courts censor every article and quote about him (plus: he is a member of a not so harmless global US-based sect that is somewhat deranged to say the least). Whenever one of his films comes out, the critics rightfully point to his performance and yet along with the usual press ballyhoo they equally rightfully tell the audiences those little, dirty and well proven "behind-the-scenes" thingies, which shed a slightly different light on this man.

Same goes for David Chiang.

If you would have known him then your "no matter what he does he is over the top and nobody should dare to take a swing on him" attitude would vanish, despite all he did or did not do for Hong Kong's film industry. He was and perhaps still is not the well-liked buddy and hero from the screen, but always a man with greed, ambition, envy and other human faults. Also nobody with his eyes open, a grasp of Chinese literature and a healthy view towards beauty and acting abilities could see him differently than in my probably harshest review as a completely wrong casted actor in the flick "Have Sword Will Travel", where he played a "little (he is with a height of 1m 59cm rather short) brooding (the role he performs best in his work and private life as well) starving nerd (his role, nothing else). …

[Guest Chinatown Kid]

I'm not saying you are mahsingyi but it sounds like you really don't like Chiang and have alot of animosity toward him so you come off sounding a bit biased. That's not to say that what you say about Chiang is not true but it's evident your not a member of the David Chiang fan club.:lol I remember one time I stated that Chiang and Ti both stated in interviews that there was no animosity between them and that there was no jealousy. You responded to that saying I hate to spoil your fan illusions CK but the hate between them was very true. It may have been true and maybe they were both trying to cover up the grudge they had but I was just taking their word for what they said in the interviews. Life is too short to carry such grudges and I think they should be mature and mellow enough with age to put such petty BS behind them. I like'um both.

[Guest Chen Zhen]

both of them are favs of mine...David Chiang has this sarcastic/witty edge to him, and ti lung is just straight up cool. its always a joy watching them..seperately or together.

[Guest limubai2000]

I'm not saying you are mahsingyi but it sounds like you really don't like Chiang and have alot of animosity toward him so you come off sounding a bit biased.

I have to disagree with that totally. I'm sure Mahs could write an equally long post about Ti Lung's problems and issues. Sounds to me like Chiang blamed part of his failing career on Lung possibly.

The difference, as I see it, is Ti Lung was able to rise from the failure of his career and start over again whilst Chiang just went downhill into nothing, in anger no less.

I point out that the resurrection of Lung's career echoes the "conquer yourself" spirit of CMA and "life is about change, accept it, master it" which is also one of the four pillars of Buddhism. It might be possible that Lung embraced the idealism of characters he had portrayed on screen.

[Guest Chinatown Kid]

That very well may be the case, that's just the way I interpreted Mah's post. I never knew Ti was an alcoholic either but I guess if you look hard enough you could find dirt on just about anybody as we're all human. They both seem like nice, pleasent guys in interviews and if there is animosity between them I wish they could just bury the hachet. Some people just aren't able to do this though. Oh well, like I said I think their both great.

[Guest SBfan4life]

Were things really that bad between the two that they would not be on the same set during filming , speak to each other, etc. ???

[Guest Chinatown Kid]

LOL, they look mighty chummy smoking those stogies together don't they?

[Guest teako170]

they look mighty chummy smoking those stogies together don't they?

Ya got that right CKid. If a photo is worth a thousand words, then this photo (at the very least) diminishes the great feud that we have always read about. Granted, one photo alone doesn't wipe out the possibility that these two didn't have their share of quarrels over the years but unless there's some trick photography in the works, two-guys-who-can't-stand-in-the-same-room-together myth seems to have been debunked.

Thanks for the photo, SBfan4life. Anyone able to transcribe those pesky Chinese characters below the two gents?? (who btw are breaking the law in some states by smoking indoors!) :b

[Guest SBfan4life]

Hey Chinatownkid & teako170,

I had to go "over the river and through the woods" to my Mom & Dads house to see if they could translate the Chinese for me.....

I tried to get my Dad to translate the words one by one, by he was too impatient, and his eyesite isn't that great... he summed it up saying :

"Ti Lung & David Chiang were not good friends like they use to be. Now they have put the past & their differences behind them & together they Celebrate Ti Lungs Award at the 1986 Asia's Golden Horse Awards

Christine

[Guest teako170]

Nice. Thx Christine.

[Guest Tosh]

I take it David Chiang is standing on a box for this pic? or maybe Ti is standing down on some stairs:p

[Guest pcshawbros]

I remember the last movie they shared a scene together briefly was in "Just Heroes" with Chen Kuan Tai as the bad guy and a bunch of old SB stars directed by Chang Cheh/Wu Ma. DC introduced TL as his old friend, even touching his shoulder. TL basically ignored him. Probably about 10 seconds of air time together.

[Guest HANZOSTEEL]

I'm not saying you are mahsingyi but it sounds like you really don't like Chiang and have alot of animosity toward him so you come off sounding a bit biased.

I couldnt agree more, all the shaw brothers actors should be respected not shat upon. WoW. but anyways i like them both personally. I like all of them just wish they would have been more savy when getting new talent mostly there was the same roundup.

[Guest SBfan4life]

Here's another picture a friend sent me, she says that this picture is around the late 80's ... what do you guys think ?

Christine

[Guest Tosh]

Here's another picture a friend sent me, she says that this picture is around the late 80's ... what do you guys think ?

They look pretty cool to me, It should be no surprise that these guys egos were so blown up that they couldn't get along, it has happened a lot between actors and musicians.

[Guest Chinatown Kid]

Chiang seems to have aged a little better than Ti. Nice to see another picture of them together, thanks.

[Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

I must say, in that first photo they don't look like they have an attitude, or any sort of discomfort whatsoever, being in one anothers company. It's nice to see them getting along and considering more and more that the previous rumours mentioned on this thread are unfounded or just plain untrue.

[Guest SBfan4life]

I don't know what year this is...late 80's early 90's ?

Christine