Boxer's Omen - Image DVD review

[Guest killer meteor]

www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/r...p?ID=25183

Sounds good, even if the mention of combing and shimmering implies this is a basic PAL-NTSC transfer, I should expect this to have sorted out the problems present in Image's first two discs.

Edit: The review mentions Mandarin audio only whilst the HKFA says it's a Cantonese film but they've been wrong before - that or the reviewer has it wrong

[Guest chen lung]

I know the lack of subtitled trailers is a minor thing but honestly, I'm really disappointed in Image and for a fairly-major studio, they should be ashamed. The lousy conversions mainly - more-so Celestial for their incompetance of not doing 1080p HD transfers with all footage restored (frame-cuts, sections removed and cheap quick 'cleaning' techniques). Because the prints won't last another round, the chances of complete and proper restorations is as likely as finding out how the world started.

I'm starting to doubt them.

Don't want to hijack the thread but I thought I'd link these: 'Super Inframan' Review and Captures.

[Guest morgoth]

Picture not perfect but not bad.

[Guest sevenhooks]

Well, I hope they get it together for Deadly Breaking Sword, Legendary Weapons, Heaven and Hell, etc.

[Guest Ministry88]

Well, I just took a look at the DVD and I can say, all things considered (although I may be considered somewhat biased since I wrote the liner notes), this is a good (although not stellar) release. I did notice some jumpiness during tracking shots (check out the scene where Kao storms Bolo Yeung's reception in Thailand) due to interlacing/sawtoothing artifacting (pause a random frame in that scene to see what I mean), but otherwise the transfer looked crisp and colorful (even better than the above average VCD transfer from Celestial) on my 27" direct view Toshiba. I would have liked to have seen Image include the original (not the new video trailers from Celestial) trailers of at least OMEN, but oh well. It was nice however to see the oringinal lobby cards, but I really wish they were the kind where you could manually skip to each image instead of the automatic tour type they have here (often I had to shuffle back or pause the image just in time to see a specific lobby card). I will say it was a nice surprise to have the 5.1 remix. It was TASTEFUL (no Celestial new foley remix crap here!), which means of course there wasn't a lot of surround activity but when there was it was enjoyable. Also, there was some nice, yet subtle, LFE response. I thought the scene where the glop creature is conjured up (48:40) had some nice, subtle bass and some nice surround, and the front sound field was much fuller than the 2.0 track which was anchored in the center speaker. The soundtrack was also hiss-free: I was bracing myself for some distortion on the higher end of the soundtrack but it wasn't there. And the higher fidelity of the soundtrack has, in at least one place, allowed me to hear a new wrinkle in the soundtrack: a low, eerie LFE of a Buddhist drum in the scene where Kao meets the rival gangsters in the warehouse in the beginning of the film (5:08) -- it's a nice bit of sound design foreshadowing his journey to Thailand and his indoctrination to Buddhism, something I always missed in every other release. *BUT, it seems they included the Mandarin track ONLY! What a letdown, as the Cantonese track is much superior, such as the scene where Kao first sees the temple and only the eerie tolling of the Buddhist bell is heard, whereas in the Mandarin version the boat engine somewhat drowns out the bell. This is not a mere aesthetic thing; it is a good example of precise sound design and another feather in the film's cap.

Then again, this is coming from someone who first fell in love with this film nearly a decade ago via a horrible, multi-generation dupe of the cut Scholar Film VHS. I'm just so thankful it's out, complete, in visible picture quality! Remember, considering how erratic Celestial has been, OMEN may not have happened at all. And now this once mega-obscure film will be available at Wal Mart! Simply unbelievable...

[Guest chen lung]

How are the subtitles? Are they newly translated?

Is Cantonese definately the original soundtrack?

[Guest sammofan]

Now I'm confused. Last month Linn said he had checked a test dvd and that it had the original soundtrack. I was expecting Cantonese on the Image dvd! What happened?

[Guest Markgway]

*BUT, it seems they included the Mandarin track ONLY!

Oops!

[Guest HAZ74]

Hi,

Between not being able to find these DVD's in Canada & all of the bad stuff written, I don't know if I should bother trying to track down these movies...The release of Fearless Fighters had me expecting much more in the way of quality, or at least not so many production errors & such. Next up: Dragon Dynasty...

h

[Guest Ministry88]

From what I could tell, they are exactly the same subs from the Celestial VCD (although I did spot a minor grammatical correction in the Image subs). Unfortunately, this means that a few gaps of dialogue are mysteriously untranslated, including the black wizard's vengeful diatribe to his disciples, which WAS translated in the Scholar Film release! BUT the Image and Celestial releases also translate some dialogue that is UNtranslated in the Scholar Film release:rollin

[Guest peringaten]

*BUT, it seems they included the Mandarin track ONLY! What a letdown, as the Cantonese track is much superior, such as the scene where Kao first sees the temple and only the eerie tolling of the Buddhist bell is heard, whereas in the Mandarin version the boat engine somewhat drowns out the bell.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

DAMN YOU IMAGE!! Ah well, sticking with my VCD for sure, but still getting my money for this one anyway if only for the better picture - Canto makes ALL the difference... Man, that mandarin audio sucks, lol...

[Guest chen lung]

@#%$ @#%$ @#%$ @#%$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We trusted Image to get it right, now they've @#%$ it up big time.

What a @#%$ waste....

[Linn1]

had the original soundtrack. I have no clue why it would be different. I think the problem stems from Image not really making these discs. A group in HK, I suspect IVL, do the content per their instructions. They are limited with what they can do by Celestial, and this I think is part of the agreement, and is a large source of the overall problems IMO. As for the image of any of these discs, with the exception of Black Magic, that is a problem to put at the feet of Celestial for not doing proper masters originally. Every US company releasing these films will have to deal with the same thing, but I suspect that Harvey and the gang will have more chance of finding other prints to the use. In most cases, the more "obscure" the film, the less likely that you're going to find another suitable print. Image has already paid for new remasters of the films that Celestial can find other prints of, but most of the prints were useless after the original remastering. And considering in some cases they cobbled together prints to get a suitable image, it's a toss up what they'll find.

On a personal note, I've recieved e-mails and PMs acting as if I am the guy responsible for these problems. While I've been around long enough to know that fans act crazy about releases not being exactly the way they want it, it's that way with any niche fanbase, you're coming to the wrong guy. I'm a long time fan who was asked to writer liner notes for these releases and decided to call up some friends to get a little exposer for them as writers of the notes. I don't work for the company nor do I get paid for my work as I have on many other jobs of this type. I'm doing it for the sake of loving the films. If you have complaints or want to write nasty notes to someone, do it to the people actually releasing the DVDs. I come on here and answer questions to help the fans because I love these films, not because I have to.

[Guest sevenhooks]

That's prety f-d up that someone would insinuate that you're actually somehow responsible for anything wrong w/these releases.

Particularly after all you've been doing to push for the best possible release.

I mean really.

The bottom line is, as FANS (emphasis).... we can only do so much.

And bottom line, Linn is a FAN.

Albeit one who happens to have better connections to these companies than most.

But he's still just a FAN at the end of the day.

And as such, is ultimately powerless as to whatever the final result may be.

You can tell by all of my past posts that I'm just as concerned (if not moreso) than anyone else here re: these Image releases.

I want them to get it right too and get pissed the #$@% off when they don't.

I'm especially nervous and concerned about some of these titles about to be released in the immediate future.

And I don't think it would be remiss to say that a lot of damage has already been done that may very well affect the future of any more US-released Shaw films.

And no, I am NOT happy about that.

But come ON peoples.

[Guest peringaten]

Damn Linn, as much as I'll be silly and moan about an audio or the like now and again, it's only movies at the end of the day (even if I am worryingly obsessed), it's sad to hear that people are holding you responsible for, perhaps sometimes honest, f'ck ups along the way. Plus there's so many great releases to keep us all occupied if one or two go a bit wayward here and there regardless.

I work for a record company putting out CD reissues and comps from classic albums and it's so easy to make honest f'ck ups when you've got a whole group of people, some of course slightly disinterested as is business, trying to orchestrate the things along the way.

Sorry to hear you're taking a brunt of the bitching, you do more than enough info-wise for all of us here, that if one or two bits go a bit astray here and there for whatever reason out of your hands or expectations, it's more than human and expected. Sure appreciate what you're doing. Serious.

[Linn1]

and I admit to taking a bit of the critics a bit personally on these releases. I've seen plenty of people that like the releases, but there's just as many that don't for reasons mentioned.

I got my copies of Boxer's Omen today and can say WITHOUT a doubt that this is not the same as the version I was sent. Please note, I was sent that prior to even the Black Magic release because I pushed for the earliest version to make sure the soundtrack was correct. What I think happened was: the title was redone to fix the subtitles and the same issues with the Black Magic disc. My guess is this happened when someone at the production house in HK switched the tracks assuming it was Mandarin. I have contacted Image about it.

That said, this version IS better than the HK VCD picturewise and the packaging overall is excellent. Stephen has a lot to be proud of with the liner notes. It's a nice looking booklet and a great set of notes that puts the film in some context and even makes mention of Horacio Higuchi, one of the great unsung writers on Asian horror cinema in the US. It would have been a crime not to mention him in some context with this release. It's a shame that most of the US's Asian film writers from the 70s and 80s have been lost in the wake of Ric Meyers' mania, but they should be remembered. This and Kenny Woo's notes are the reasons I wanted to bring other writers into the mix and I'm proud to see it pay off in such an excellent fashion. This film is truly treasured among HK horror fans and it's a shame that the release was perfect though.

[Guest HAZ74]

I don't think that these errors will effect Image's business too badly. The people who post here are not indicative of the typical customer. Lost of people just want to see some crazy ish & won't lose sleep over it being in mandarin or cantonese. I hope they sell well, get out to a wide audience & then we can see more movies. Who knows, with more at stake & a wider audience base, they might try harder to get this right.

[Guest chen lung]

Hi Linn

Any chance this disc can be repressed?

[Guest sevenhooks]

Well hopefully, they'll see just how anal our fandom can be as a result of our reaction to these releases and henceforth make sure that Linn receives a final, FINAL check disc.

[Guest drunkenmantis13]

Holy crap what's up with Image!?

Picture ends up worst instead of better than the IVL.

Extras are less than the French releases (which all have at least 1 interview/documentary).

Wrong audio track...

Hopefully thay'll get their act together and we don't end up being letdown by the next releases.

Thanks a lot Linn for everything you have done / are doing for this man!

[Linn1]

and I forgot I never added it here. To be clear, at the time it was released, Boxer's Omen would have been put out in theaters with both Mandarin and Cantonese soundtracks at the same time in different theaters. In the '80s, this was a common occurence for all their films. That said, the Cantonese soundtrack DOES have a different, better sound track mix IMO.

As far as it being the correct soundtrack, that's up for debate considering many different languages were spoken in the film, and both Mandarin and Cantonese soundtracks were dubbed using Shaw Brothers dub actors as in the majority of Shaw films.

[Guest Markgway]

The easiest way to tell is to find out what language the main actors were speaking - providing the could speak both Cantonese and Mandarin. I would imagine Philip Ko might be bi-lingual. I'm pretty sure when I saw this it was Cantonese that was in-sync.

[Linn1]

at NO POINT did they stop producing Mandarin soundtracks for their Mandarin theaters in HK and abroad. Ti Lung commented in an interview he couldn't remember the last time he had had his voice on a soundtrack. While the Chang Cheh films were originally in Mandarin, and later dubbed into Cantonese BTW, TI Lung didn't speak the language well enough to dub his voice, which was true of many of the Shaw Brothers actors. When the Shaws started doing Cantonese soundtracks, the same thing happened because actors didn't have time to dub themselves what with films, private lives, and public appearances. While the actors were speaking mainly Cantonese on set going back to the late '60s, on screen they were often asked to speak Mandarin however much they sucked at it up until the 80s. At that point, they spoke a mixture of whatever languages they all spoke, counting on their actions to sell the scenes. Lo Meng even commented that they often talked gibberish or told jokes on screen because they knew none of the sound was live! Meaning if you wanted a real soundtrack for these films, in some cases it wouldn't even have anything to do with the movie!

[Guest chen lung]

What about films like 'The Teahouse' (in which IVL/Deltamac only included Cantonese)?

[Linn1]

The Teahouse was a title, like House of 72 Tenents etc, geared to the local Cantonese market. The Shaw Brothers made very few of those, but I would go with the Cantonese as the correct soundtrack for that one. Everything at least up until 1984, when much of Shaw Brother Studios shutdown for their TVB productions, the Shaw Brothers continued with Mandarin soundtracks released in most cases at the same time as their Cantonese soundtracks. Cantonese versions of Chang Cheh films exist, just the same as Mandarin versions of Lau Kar Leung's films were made as well. On the other side of the coin, there's even Cantonese soundtracks for films like Sword of Swords, as the Shaws would create new ones for retro releases in their Cantonese theaters.