Guest Markgway Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 but I would rather not buy the PANMEDIA dubs(version 1, 2, 3 etc..) but if that's the only way I can get a half-way decent dub then I gotta do what I gotta do You don't have to buy them you can always trade. At least that way the cash doesn't go into Fat Yeast Pirate's pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member bobo Posted May 13, 2007 Member Share Posted May 13, 2007 have i not said all along that celestial had over 200 english dub shaws. DD got between 50 to 60 of the most popular recognizable tittles. they bypassed most of the lesser known tittles. so what happens to all the rest--one things for sure and thats that we can,t depend on IMAGE. us dubbed shaw lovers may just have to dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest venomchamber Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 I still just don't get it... The Shaws had no problem distributing their films in English as recently as the mid 90s when the UK company MADE IN HONG KONG released these 8 films IN ENGLISH including FIVE VENOMS, INVINCIBLE SHAOLIN, BLOOD BROTHERS, SHAOLIN MARTIAL-ARTS, MAD MONKEY KUNG-FU, DIRTY HO, MY YOUNG AUNTIE, and TREASURE HUNTERS as well as with all of their original theatrical trailers! Just a year or so prior to that, SOUTHGATE here in the U.S. released 5 of them IN ENGLISH including TWO CHAMPIONS OF SHAOLIN, CHALLENGE OF THE MASTERS, KING BOXER, DUEL OF FISTS, BELLS OF DEATH, and an extended CHINATOWN KID. Sadly their poor sales (*possibly due to the $69.95 SRP) put them down for the count. Shortly thereafter, Quentin Tarantino was able to waltz in there and secure a MIGHTY PEKING MAN English dubbed print and have it signed sealed and delivered to his Rolling Thunder company. Then Celestial bought the Shaw library and started remastering them. SIREN VISUAL ENTERTAINMENT out of Austrailia launched their brand with a whopping 12 films all in ENGLISH including TRAIL OF THE BROKEN BLADE, HEROIC ONES, HEROES TWO, TWELVE GOLD MEDALLIONS, DUEL OF FISTS, THE LIZARD, THE WEB OF DEATH, THE MAGIC BLADE, THE MIGHTY PEKING MAN, SHAOLIN HAND LOCK, INVINCIBLE SHAOLIN, and TWO CHAMPIONS OF SHAOLIN. Now SPIRITUAL BOXER and KILLER CLANS are turning up over on the BBC affiliate. If the vault were such a shambles, how is it these companies were able to get the films they wanted in the format they required? It appears to me they do indeed have the dubs, but may neglect to mention this when licencing contract agreements to international distributors who fail to specify the neccessity of the English dub track. Basically, it appears to me Image just signed off on the agreement as-is, without noticing Celestial neglected to offer the option of available English dubbed audio tracks or simply didn't want to pay any additional fees to them for securing the English track (if any). Another odd thing is the horror/exploitation films that reportedly haven't done well in their native region 3 (which I find hard to believe). Considering many of these are rare films not seen in nearly 30 years, plus the low srp, they are as good as any other current direct-to-DVD release and should generate a decent minimal amount of income for Celestial, even as a rental. Sure some of them lack star power, but to buy a long lost film library and invest time & money to remaster it only to not release some of it is a foolish waste of capital. DVDs aren't expensive to manufacture and the sales generated here in the states alone should warrant atleast a limited release. Maybe they should have released them to DVD instead of VCD. Perhaps they would have sold more copies, especially to foreigners, since local Chinese aren't getting them. Another contradiction is that I know the horror titles are hugely popular in Malaysia. In fact several of Shaw's horror films are rooted in Malaysian folklore including OILY MANIAC and the BLACK MAGIC films. The horror titles fare better there than the martial-arts films do! What's more, Celestial should be professionally aware of the fact that HK horror films have always had a large fan base internationally, especially in Germany and Japan as well as the US of A. Image is a prime example of this as the majority of their catalog consists of horror/exploitation fare. Their first handfull of Shaws fit this category! (BLACK MAGIC, INFRAMAN, THE BOXER'S OMEN, CAVE OF SILKEN WEB) Example: BOXER'S OMEN was never released on DVD in SE Asia, but it was here, so why not send all those "unwanted" horror films like SEEDING OF A GHOST to Image in a nice package deal!?! I'm sure KING'S VIDEO in Japan is interested in some of them as well. So it would seem to me that the English dubs and the horror films are there IF YOU REQUEST THEM AND ARE WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE. Our only hope now is Quentin's Dragon Dynasty imprint. I've already read ungrateful posts putting down the covers which I thought looked great...and a lot better than Image's have been recently. All the QT haters on here could jinx upcoming releases if you continue to slam one of the Shaw's biggest fans and the only one who has the power to bring us what we want! I don't care whose name is presenting the film on the box, as long as I get the film in the format I want it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Linn1 Posted May 13, 2007 Member Share Posted May 13, 2007 have i not said all along that celestial had over 200 english dub shaws. DD got between 50 to 60 of the most popular recognizable tittles. they bypassed most of the lesser known tittles. so what happens to all the rest FYI, the 200+ were not all dubbed and we'll see soon there's going to be some gaps in DD "most popular" titles. SIREN VISUAL ENTERTAINMENT out of Austrailia launched their brand with a whopping 12 films all in ENGLISH. Some of those tracks did not come from the Shaw vaults, so don't give them too much credit there. It hasn't been until the last year or so that they've been truly looking for the things companies were asking for. Basically, it appears to me Image just signed off on the agreement as-is, without noticing Celestial neglected to offer the option of available English dubbed audio tracks or simply didn't want to pay any additional fees to them for securing the English track (if any). I don't understand why this is even a question really. They paid for all the films and soundtracks in advance of ever releasing a single dvd. This was a part of the Image contract all along, exactly saying they would get the dubs if they were there. If it wasn't part of the deal, they couldn't have ever had any English dub tracks on their releases at all. Just the same as they wouldn't have got the dub tracks for Intimate Tales of a Chinese Courtisan among others. Considering many of these are rare films not seen in nearly 30 years, plus the low srp, they are as good as any other current direct-to-DVD release and should generate a decent minimal amount of income for Celestial, even as a rental. Celestial aren't releasing these in HK, IVL are. IVL decided to make the switch to vcd for the horror releases because they didn't do as well to save money. It's a trend in their releases as the titles didn't do well, from getting rid of slipcases to no more mono soundtracks, etc. You're correct though, Celestial is making a MINT off of this stuff. so why not send all those "unwanted" horror films like SEEDING OF A GHOST to Image in a nice package deal!?! Well, maybe because it's not on Celestial's offer sheet? Because it's not. I know companies who WISH it was that easy to deal with these guys, but Celestial doesn't sell the right to distribute their films for a song. Nor do they make it an easy process. I REALLY wish we could see a Shaw Brothers Horror Collection and I have tried to convince a couple of people that it's a good idea. With the right titles, it would be excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sevenhooks Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 SOUTHGATE here in the U.S. released 5 of them IN ENGLISH including TWO CHAMPIONS OF SHAOLIN, CHALLENGE OF THE MASTERS, KING BOXER, DUEL OF FISTS, BELLS OF DEATH, and an extended CHINATOWN KID. Sadly their poor sales (*possibly due to the $69.95 SRP) put them down for the count. Hey, I gladly shelled out $69.95 cash for TWO CHAMPIONS OF SHAOLIN back when they released it at Lechmeres (anyone here remember that regional department store?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest venomchamber Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 So is it safe to assume that when Image finally releases THE MAGIC BLADE it would have the English dub since the SVE release has it? ...hell, even Red Sun/Pan-Asia have it! If that is the case, then it would appear this would be the only remaining title Image could release with an English track. No point in looking forward to any more. Pity. However, I doubt Celestial supplied Image with the English dubs for BLACK MAGIC or THE SUPER INFRAMAN and I'm not sure where they got the LEGENDARY WEAPONS dub from. [perhaps the Warner Bros. UK VHS?] Linn, do you have any idea as to exactly why they decided not to use the dub for HEAVEN AND HELL that you so graciously supplied them with? Do they not realize how much more money they could have made with this "lost" dubbed Venoms film on the market? Are they deliberately trying to sabotage themselves? Image could lose money on the deal they made with Celestial because of the way they are doing business and it could either make them or break them if they paid a fortune for these! Now, I do recall there were strong concerns over the potential piracy of their titles during the inception of their releases. I hope all of this reluctance to release English dubbed DVDs is not an attempt to hinder or thwart further video piracy on Celestial's part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teako170 Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Time for the devil to play advocate. Just wondering.... Of the 250 million ppl in the US how many are film fans? (I use the US as an example here only) Of that percentage, how many are fans of the martial arts genre? Of that percentage, how many have seen the old school Shaw films? Of that percentage, how many collect these films? Of that percentage, how many are on-line and in these forums? Of that percentage, how many plan to buy these films? I'm just curious. Anyone like to guess how many there are of us? We are a rare breed. I'm wagering the numbers are A LOT smaller that many might think. How many units of an English dub H&H (a fairly unknown film to many mainstream MA film watchers) would be sold really? 10,000? 20,000? At $20 a pop? That's $20-40,000. Average business profit margins fluctuate but let's say 30%. That equals $6-12K profit for this one film. Not much of a fortune. Granted my numbers are mere speculation. I'd love to see hard figures. The devil is going to eat his breakfast now.... :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sevenhooks Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 How many units of an English dub H&H (a fairly unknown film to many mainstream MA film watchers) would be sold really? 10,000? 20,000? I have seen the hard numbers on a couple of bootleg Shaws and how they've done. Talking about the Crash versions of Master Killer and Crippled Avengers (both of which are still available). As of 3 years ago, Crippled Avengers (Return of the 5 Deadly Venoms) was closing in on 100,000 units sold. Yes you read that right. (Shaolin) Master Killer on the other hand had sold far more than that. And these are bootlegs mind you, without any of the kind of help or promotion that a legit release might benefit from. Granted, these are two unique and well known titles and you cannot quite accurately assertain as a result of these sales figures how other, lesser known titles might do (ala Heaven and Hell). Thing is, if you have one or two or three or four of these "anchor" titles then that in turn helps offset the titles that don't do as well out the gate. At least that's the idea I'd imagine. My problem with Image from the jump was their almost total lack of any good "anchor" titles. Perhaps Super Inframan and/or Legendary Weapons? I don't know man. I understand DD has a good chunk of the hot ticket titles, but according to some people, there's still a lot left. Oh, and I'm fairly certain that there's quite a lot MORE of us than you might think! Perhaps not online. Perhaps not here. But they/we are out there.... lurking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sevenhooks Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 So is it safe to assume that when Image finally releases THE MAGIC BLADE it would have the English dub since the SVE release has it? ...hell, even Red Sun/Pan-Asia have it! If that is the case, then it would appear this would be the only remaining title Image could release with an English track. No point in looking forward to any more. Pity. Well, there's still the DEADLY BREAKING SWORD and INTIMATE CONFESSIONS dubs we found at the LOC. Who the hell knows what'll happen there. No longer holding my breath, that's for sure. Also, what about SHAOLIN INTRUDERS? I mean, if they release THAT without the dub I wouldn't know what the ---- to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tosh Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Of that percentage, how many are on-line and in these forums? 7588 daily visits to KFF, I always wondered if this was accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teako170 Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Oh, and I'm fairly certain that there's quite a lot MORE of us than you might think! Perhaps not online. Perhaps not here. But they/we are out there.... lurking.... Lurking about in the shadows, no less? Outside of the cyberworld, I could probably count on one hand the number of people I've met who are familiar with these films. One of these is a guy I grew up with and last week he caught "Master Of The Flying Guillotine" on Showtime(?) and totally trashed it. The only recent person was a guy at work who mentioned he caught "Flying G" (the first one) on cable and when he said that I almost fell out of my chair. (This is the guy that I gave that 5 Venoms copy to last month.) I'm curious to see how many folks turn out for the Lo Mang thing in Philly because I still think there's only like 40 or 50 of us out there. :rollin 7588 daily visits to KFF, I always wondered if this was accurate? Yeah I wonder too. I also wonder how many of those hits are repeat customers and if a hit is counted each time you click on a thread or visit a different part of the forum. I've visited this site 4 times today (but if you tally up the threads and different forums, its more like 30 hits). The reason I feel that this community is so small is because there is only so many forums out there (and I lurk on several that I don't post in) but I always run into some familiar face no matter where I go. And I always thought the internet was suppose to be a big place?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member bobo Posted May 13, 2007 Member Share Posted May 13, 2007 i,ve seen the first dd shaw box art and i think they look great--besides i sure wouldn,t be discouraged from buying a movie i want becouse of poor box art.--a question--if linn supplied a copy of the english dub of HEAVEN AND HELL to image why didn,t they use it? also what about the promised english dub versions of SHAOLIN INTRUDER-MAGIC BLADE and DEADLY BREAKING SWORD from image--are they still being released? i still believe the difference between selling the shaws or having them sit on the shelf collecting dust will be the inclusion of the english dub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Linn1 Posted May 13, 2007 Member Share Posted May 13, 2007 So is it safe to assume that when Image finally releases THE MAGIC BLADE it would have the English dub since the SVE release has it? Yes, they have the dub for that. If that is the case, then it would appear this would be the only remaining title Image could release with an English track. Not so, they for sure have the dub to DEADLY BREAKING SWORD and Intimate Confessions.... I know for a fact, as I heard a bit over the phone(yes, really) when they got Intimate Confessions.... They also have the dub for Shaolin Rescuers. However, I doubt Celestial supplied Image with the English dubs for BLACK MAGIC or THE SUPER INFRAMAN Correct, they gave them the rights to the dubs, but did not have them. The Super Inframan one is not owned by Celestial BTW. I'm not sure where they got the LEGENDARY WEAPONS dub from. [perhaps the Warner Bros. UK VHS?] Don't know. Linn, do you have any idea as to exactly why they decided not to use the dub for HEAVEN AND HELL that you so graciously supplied them with? I have no idea. I know that I was as suprised as everyone else. Do they not realize how much more money they could have made with this "lost" dubbed Venoms film on the market? I don't think so. But also, how much would you without playing up the venoms? But I'm sure Celestial okayed that cover. As for sabotage themselves, I think (and know) Celestial is pulling a lot of the strings here. I hope all of this reluctance to release English dubbed DVDs is not an attempt to hinder or thwart further video piracy on Celestial's part? I don't think so. If so, it certainly makes no sense. Now as for your questions T, the other one I'd add is how many people are willing to buy the film more than once and perhaps for more money the second time? Meaning, once they've bought a bootleg in some stall of a title for $8, a year or so later are they willing to buy the film again? And then you go into first timers that bought the film just to check it out and then didn't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaolin Patriot Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 They also have the dub for Shaolin Rescuers. I'm guessing that since Image would follow IVL, the IVL release would be planned for 2008?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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