Guest sevenhooks Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Couple of things got me thinking. I applaud Linn for all of his efforts in making sure companies like Image put out the best product possible. However, as evidenced by the latest Image fiasco of Heaven and Hell, it just goes to show that all the smart imput in the world won't make a damn bit of difference if the people in charge don't listen. It's great that Linn supplied Image with the dub, but you know what? He shouldn't have even had to. Celestial should have supplied Image with it. I'm sorry, but I have no doubt that they have the dub for Heaven and Hell as well as the vast majority if not ALL of the english dubs that were ever made. And I think the recent UKGOLD dubs tend to speak to that fact. I think that it was probably a combination of Celestial being lazy and Image not pushing hard enough. How much do you want to bet that UKGOLD told Celestial, "no dubs, no deal"? Thus forcing Celestial to find the dubs for those films by hook or by crook. Shame. Kind of ironic too. To think that the majority of any newly unearthed Shaw dubs will be found on television. Just like the old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ninja Sinai Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I agree with our friend Mr. 7 Hooks! I bet Celestial has all the classic English dubs but are hoarding them so they can maybe oneday sell them for more money. I cant forgive them for nor releasing To Kill A Mastermind, but yet they will release a ton of crap that no ones interested in!!!! If I had my way.. id go town to Celestial HQ and talk some sense into them.. when I say talk I mean kick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gfanikf Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 This isn't meant to be a slight to Linn or others who have workerd on these discs. Honestly, I think have the reason this discs are even passable are because of the hard work of Linn and others like Kenny Woo, August Ragon, Damon Foster, and othets. Kind of ironic too. To think that the majority of any newly unearthed Shaw dubs will be found on television. Just like the old days. The more things change...the more they stay the same. You have to admit I bet a lot of you dubs junkies (me included) are getting flashbacks to the days where rumours of news dubs would appear and the quest to find them . Seriously though, people need to contact UK GOLD and tell them there extreme appreciation for this. Hell, mention that the fact the previously unknown dubs are used insure that you will tune to there channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ironfistedmonk2003 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 UKTV Gold is a BBC owned channel so they have a bit of clout behind them. The damn hoarders!!!!!!!! Give us our dubs!!!!!! >: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member bobo Posted May 9, 2007 Member Share Posted May 9, 2007 i agree with what you say as well--obviously CELESTIAL has the dubs---and i mean all the dubs--including the lost dubs and even more than that. prime examples--HOUSE OF TRAPS--DUEL FOR GOLD--LADY HERMIT--HAVE SWORD WILL TRAVEL--SWORD OF SWORDS--need i go on---they have them all--i know this for a fact. they need to be bullied into releaseing them. the only markets they have where they can make money are the asian language and of course the ENGLISH LANGUAGE . they figure why give up the english dubs when we can make money off the asian versions first. just look at the UK-they pushed and got what they wanted. they are just sitting on 200 or more dubs but won,t give them up. it makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ninja Sinai Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Sword Of Swords with a classic English Dub.. just the thought of that has made me even more vexed with Celestial!!!!! You sure Bobo there is a classic dub in the vaults for this Jimmy Wang Yu classic???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 What puzzles me is why Celestial didn't provide Siren with an English dub for Spiritual Boxer but were more than able to find it for UK Gold. There's no consistency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sevenhooks Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 What puzzles me is why Celestial didn't provide Siren with an English dub for Spiritual Boxer but were more than able to find it for UK Gold. There's no consistency Makes perfect sense to me. Like I said, companies like Siren or Image most likely didn't push Celestial hard enough for the dubs. And Celestial, more than anything else, is probably just plain LAZY when it comes to digging the dubs up from out the vaults. There's probably a LOT of crap to sift through in there. UK TV GOLD on the other hand, probably told Celestial that it was the dubs or nothing since we're talking about an english language television broadcast. So... Celestial complied. Probably begrudgingly, since they most likely had to do a bit of work to find the dubs. But do it they did. Trust me, if Siren held firm with Celestial and told them they NEEDED those dubs or else no deal, I bet you we'd have an english dubbed Spiritual Boxer on disc now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Siren got a few dubs but as you said, that's didn't guarantee a quality search. The Trail Of The Broken Blade and The Heroic Ones had new sound effects in places, The Web Of Death was incomplete, Twelve Gold Medallions was a brand new one and The Master had no dub despite one being very easy to find. At least Siren tried, unlike Momentum Asia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gfanikf Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Also, it seems Celestial remastered the dubs at some point. I'm interested in whether that was done recently just for the UK titles or prehaps earlier on and for more than just those movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member bobo Posted May 9, 2007 Member Share Posted May 9, 2007 when CELESTIAL bought the shaw library they got all the english dubs as well because they knew that outside of the asian market the ONLY other place they would make money from is the english language market. north america-the uk-aussie land etc--combined thats a pretty big market. haveing those dubbed shaws is like sitting on a gold mine. after they milk the mandarin versions dry they can rerelease a lot of tittles with the dubs and fans would have no choice but to rebuy certain tittles. i believe that if IMAGE or whoever went in and said --we,ll sell your product BUT you have to give us the dubbed versions or no deal-- they would have got them---either the people at image were to wimpy or they just didn,t care. people right here on this forum had to scan the LOC for the dubs of DEADLY BREAKING SWORD--and whos to say that it wil actually be released with that dub. lost dubs? i don,t think so--CELESTIALS got them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daTOAD Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 is it possible some of remasterd films with eng dubs arent coming from celestial? im not very knowledgable on this subject, but i seem to remember something like Celestial only "owning" the HK versions[why 5 Deadly Venoms is just 5 Venoms-or something like that] which would leave all those dubbed and sold to foreign distributers up for grabs. could some of these distributers be cashing in? like i said dont know much about it so i probably should of just read instead of posted, but me loves a good mystery:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sevenhooks Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 is it possible some of remasterd films with eng dubs arent coming from celestial? im not very knowledgable on this subject, but i seem to remember something like Celestial only "owning" the HK versions[why 5 Deadly Venoms is just 5 Venoms-or something like that] which would leave all those dubbed and sold to foreign distributers up for grabs. could some of these distributers be cashing in? like i said dont know much about it so i probably should of just read instead of posted, but me loves a good mystery Celestial definitely owns the dubs. Five Deadly Venoms was just the retitle by the US distributor. They got the english dub direct from Shaws who made all their own dubs. And they still own all their own dubs. In the case of the US distributor (World Northal), they simply licensed the films for tv and theaters for a limited number of years. IE: that gave them exclusive rights to exhibit the films in a certain territory. But they owned nothing. Hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member bobo Posted May 9, 2007 Member Share Posted May 9, 2007 i once read an article about celestial only owning the rights of the HK versions and thats why STEEPLECHASE never caught any flack for FIVE FINGERS OF DEATH and FIVE DEADLY VENOMS. same was said for CRASH CINEMAS --MASTER KILLER and CRIPPLED AVENGERS. but i don,t buy that--if that were true then why didn,t somebody release any other shaw tittles (other than panmedia that is). once rarekungfumovies emailed me back and said they could no longer sell any shaw bros movies for fear of legal action from celestial---BUT even today there are still many sites that sell shaws on vhs or dvd-r. i for one am firmly convinced that celestial has the dubs. think about it--why would a smart business man try to sell non english movies to an english speaking population. its not only bad business its just plain stupid. the UKgold is a perfect example--people will watch a channel showing english dub martial arts movies but i bet they wouldn,t have watched if they were all subtittled (except for hardcore fans)--so they went out and got what the people would watch. about time IMAGE started thinking the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daTOAD Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 In the case of the US distributor (World Northal), they simply licensed the films for tv and theaters for a limited number of years. what about Warner Brothers and Vista. these companies sold the vids[which im a proud owner of:D ]. just curious, seems like to sell these movies youd have to buy the rights. i mean ive never seen a video of Blade Runner that ShawBrothers released.im saying that even in Asia the video says Warner Brothers[i belive they put this out].i dont know, maybe im not making sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Most of the companies dealing with Shaws aren't majors (Siren, Image, Momentum) and so presumably don't have the clout or negotiating skills to get what they want. A big company or at least a savvy one could get what they want for a price that's acceptable. But Celestial like many Asian companies it seems will not make it easy for you. Like when you get it in the contract that mono tracks be supplied you need to specify original mono as heard in theatres otherwise they'll give you a downmix and contractually will be within their right to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member bobo Posted May 10, 2007 Member Share Posted May 10, 2007 i wonder if IMAGE has even one SHAW fan on their payroll. you know--someone who could fight for the right movie versions. if not then we may be out of luck. in fact i believe it may already be to late for image. lets hope DD will do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Isn't Image more of a distributor? It seems Celestial is calling the shots here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carl douglas Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 English Dubs are disrespectful to the Chinese language and cinema, or any other non English language or cinema. Surly when viewing other peoples culture, their language are part of the culture. You don't take Da Vinci's Mona Lisa and paint over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sevenhooks Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 "Surly" indeed. >D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 English Dubs are disrespectful to the Chinese language and cinema, or any other non English language or cinema. Surly when viewing other peoples culture, their language are part of the culture. You don't take Da Vinci's Mona Lisa and paint over it. True, but some can be fun in their own right and never underestimate the power of nostalgia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest venomchamber Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 But still...it was the Chinese who supplied the English dubs in the first place so they could peddle their wares internationally! Now it seems they are herding us to buy their films twice. (*Or sometimes even thrice if you count upgrading VCDs to DVD.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HAZ74 Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Now it seems they are herding us to buy their films twice. I think that's the ultimate purpose of stiffing Image on the dubs. This way, they get to sell the same product multiple times in different configurations. I don't think they're lazy, just greedy. They found the dubs for tv and will then release them to dvd without the chinese sound track, and then release an "Ultimate" edition, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Le Peril Jaune Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 English Dubs are disrespectful to the Chinese language and cinema, or any other non English language or cinema. Well said, I couldn't agree more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teako170 Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Now it seems they are herding us to buy their films twice. Celestial isn't the only guilty party. All film distributors do this by re-releasing projects as "special" or "anniversary" editions. Music distributors do the same thing. Comic companies use the old "multiple cover" route. The only one who is at fault is the consumer - who continue to re-purchase the same product over and over again. Will Celestial release these films with English dubs? I don't know. Will I be buying them if they do? Nope. I already went to the well once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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