Member Secret Executioner Posted February 14, 2014 Member Share Posted February 14, 2014 Big Boss and Way Of The Dragon are my least fav' Bruce Lee movies - actually, they are near my least fav' MA movies ever. Big Boss is too slow (not much going on for a big part of the film), the character seems to become incredibly stupid (the boss promotes him, he completely forgets about the missing people and even goes to dinner when the boss invites him, just like the boss wanted him to...) but the action is enjoyable (especially the end fight). Way Of The Dragon... Stupid unfunny shit for an hour or so and suddenly, some action comes up and we get the only scene that made the movie worth seeing: the Coliseum fight (and that one clearly delivers, one of my fav' Bruce Lee fights). Fist Of Fury on the other hand is a really good film. Maybe it gets a bit over the top at times (Bruce's character clearly overreacts at times) but the action is nice and you feel for the side characters - while in Big Boss or WOTD, I didn't give a damn about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted February 14, 2014 Member Share Posted February 14, 2014 Big Boss and Way Of The Dragon are my least fav' Bruce Lee movies - actually, they are near my least fav' MA movies ever. Big Boss is too slow (not much going on for a big part of the film), the character seems to become incredibly stupid (the boss promotes him, he completely forgets about the missing people and even goes to dinner when the boss invites him, just like the boss wanted him to...) but the action is enjoyable (especially the end fight). Way Of The Dragon... Stupid unfunny shit for an hour or so and suddenly, some action comes up and we get the only scene that made the movie worth seeing: the Coliseum fight (and that one clearly delivers, one of my fav' Bruce Lee fights). Fist Of Fury on the other hand is a really good film. Maybe it gets a bit over the top at times (Bruce's character clearly overreacts at times) but the action is nice and you feel for the side characters - while in Big Boss or WOTD, I didn't give a damn about them. I can understand the Big Boss being slow as it takes 45 mins for Bruce to display his prowess but WOTD? You didn't think the movie was a fun romp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted February 15, 2014 Member Share Posted February 15, 2014 Not trouble but I disagree with you that it's a terrible film. I believe the Big Boss, was a very influential film going against the odds for its time. Countless of other films have tried to copy that structure of film and story ever since.I can't dispute that Big Boss was highly influential. But its countless imitators underline my point: the film's greatest innovations revolve simply around the screen persona of Bruce Lee. What other new ground does it break? It's "realism" was largely practical, not being the product of a well-tuned studio system, and it's not like the film doesn't have its share of "weightless leaps". As a grim study of violence and youthful rage, it's hardly that unique in view of a film like Vengeance! And it's economic message, about the exploitation of Chinese migrant workers, is negligible at best. While it became their biggest hit, it wasn't even Golden Harvest's most prestigious project that year: Lo Wei only ended up on the film due to several happy accidents. It is Bruce's ferocity, his physical exactitude, his rebellious narcissism, point blank, that gives the film any legacy whatsoever. Drop anyone else in that role, and the film becomes another forgettable basher. Drop Bruce in any other scenario, and you probably could have had the same impact.He has a ton of Shaw Brothers reviews as well.He's actually attempting to watch each and every martial-arts by the studio in chronological order. It's an ambitious project, and one I'm not even sure I'd have the stomach for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Eastern Evil Posted February 22, 2014 Member Share Posted February 22, 2014 It took me a while to get into Shaolin Martial Arts, its virtual lack of music seemed to make it really drag. I definetly like it a lot more now. Here is another cool piece of music from this movie. I took it from Monkey Kung Fu', but is is basically the same, maybe some of it is played a little slower in SMA. ?v=rCcRZkmjORE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted February 22, 2014 Member Share Posted February 22, 2014 Some of the music in Disciples of Shaolin sounded a lot like the theme music from "Everybody's Talkin" from the film Midnight Cowboy, another favorite of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted February 22, 2014 Member Share Posted February 22, 2014 Here is another cool piece of music from this movie. I took it from Monkey Kung Fu', but is is basically the same, maybe some of it is played a little slower in SMA. ?v=rCcRZkmjORE That piece sure sounds epic. Very fitting IMO, kinda like the other piece you posted some time ago (think it was in this thread too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Eastern Evil Posted February 22, 2014 Member Share Posted February 22, 2014 Yes, the other piece I posted was from Shaolin Martial Arts & probably others, this piece as well. I think it was DeWolfe, and those specific pieces sound really classical. I have a few others I like, would hope others like them as well. I will post them soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tex Killer Posted February 22, 2014 Member Share Posted February 22, 2014 I have this cd but not need it. Music sounds better in movie than from cd... http://www.dewolfeshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_music_info&products_id=182 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Eastern Evil Posted February 22, 2014 Member Share Posted February 22, 2014 btw, sometimes I get those pieces of music playing in my head (That one & the other one), and I just cannot get them out...over & over & over..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Eastern Evil Posted February 22, 2014 Member Share Posted February 22, 2014 I have this cd but not need it. Music sounds better in movie than from cd... http://www.dewolfeshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_music_info&products_id=182 I'd like to find some DeWolfe stuff other than what I have, so I will check your link & thank you! oh, I do have that! That is a very cool disc, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Eastern Evil Posted February 26, 2014 Member Share Posted February 26, 2014 That piece sure sounds epic. Very fitting IMO, kinda like the other piece you posted some time ago (think it was in this thread too). Here is the same piece as the Monkey Kung Fu clip but from Shaolin Martial Arts. I really like this music - Fu Sheng Does some really nice work over the track as well. This and the fish catching part make up a couple of my favorite pieces of Shaw music. ?v=O8TPMU-u8tg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted March 10, 2014 Member Share Posted March 10, 2014 Will I get in trouble if I say that Big Boss is a terrible movie, albeit one with a truly charismatic star? Yes... Yes, you will. Not trouble... ... but I disagree with you that it's a terrible film. I believe the Big Boss, was a very influential film going against the odds for its time. Countless of other films have tried to copy that structure of film and story ever since. It's actually Lee's best HK acting, (as an adult), before his ego got the better of him. I've heard it said once this is "because he didn't know what he was doing..." and took direction from Lo even though they had differences, and the quality showed in his performance. Cheng, his character, is quite a naive, country, bumpkin... Though I believe this to be only partially true, his childhood and U.S. background says otherwise. He may not have known how they did their Kung Fu Films, which is why he visited Shaw sets and viewed all the box office's top films up to that time.. He was a quick-study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted June 23, 2014 Member Share Posted June 23, 2014 Some of the music in Disciples of Shaolin sounded a lot like the theme music from "Everybody's Talkin" from the film Midnight Cowboy, another favorite of mine. I was wondering where that music came from. DOS clearly has some great music indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Skeleton Claw Posted June 23, 2014 Member Share Posted June 23, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Skeleton Claw Posted June 23, 2014 Member Share Posted June 23, 2014 At least 3 of the themes used in DOS came from this Italian sex comedy (Cugini Carnali). You can hear a variation of the slow & sad harpsichord melody used in DOS in the beginning of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted October 5, 2014 Member Share Posted October 5, 2014 Bump for a technical question: does anybody know the Italian title for this one (or at least the most commonly used one) ? I'll be discussing this film in an oral report for my Italian class and I guess using the English or Chinese (Hong quan xiao zi, according to hkcinemagic) titles wouldn't be that great. Also, if anyone knows what the Chinese title means (and if it's Mandarin or Cantonese), help on those would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member peringaten Posted October 5, 2014 Member Share Posted October 5, 2014 Also, if anyone knows what the Chinese title means (and if it's Mandarin or Cantonese), help on those would be greatly appreciated. Chinese title means "Hung boxing kid" or "hung fist kid", as that's the style of kung fu Fu Sheng's character is using & that Fu Sheng & LKL did in reality... he demonstrates a number of main forms & styles of Hung fist style in the film... It loosely makes up one of 3 Kid films, followed by directly Chinese translated "Choy Li Fut boxing kid" aka New Shaolin Boxers, as in that he does Choy Lee Fut style; & then Chinatown Kid... Hong quan xiao zi is Mandarin; Canto would be Hung Kuen, then whatever word/expression they use for kid... don't ask me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted October 6, 2014 Member Share Posted October 6, 2014 Chinese title means "Hung boxing kid" or "hung fist kid", as that's the style of kung fu Fu Sheng's character is using & that Fu Sheng & LKL did in reality... he demonstrates a number of main forms & styles of Hung fist style in the film... It loosely makes up one of 3 Kid films, followed by directly Chinese translated "Choy Li Fut boxing kid" aka New Shaolin Boxers, as in that he does Choy Lee Fut style; & then Chinatown Kid... Hong quan xiao zi is Mandarin; Canto would be Hung Kuen, then whatever word/expression they use for kid... don't ask me... Thanks for the input. I think I read somewhere (maybe in a review) about Fu Sheng using Hung fist in this film - and I suppose the demonstration of forms and styles is especially notable in the opening credits, as you see Fu Sheng practicing in front of a red background (really cool intro IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted March 9, 2015 Member Share Posted March 9, 2015 There is some very nice tracking shots in this film. Sometimes they appear just to be for show (tracking across the set and just ending before the camera comes on a person), but still the composition of it looks quite good. Some nice use of hand-held (something you see quite a bit of in Chang Cheh movies) and overall nice camera movement. The black and white usage is interesting here. Was there a rhyme or reason for it? On one flashback scene it goes to B&W, a very normal way to use B&W, until Chi Kuan-Chun overhears the bosses then it goes in color for that scene, then back to black and white. Was there a thematic continuity for its usage here? The flashback scene is a bit weird. Obviously the combatants are dying, but I like how they just throw themselves around, all done in slow motion. What is hilarious is that one of the shoes flies off looking quite like Fu Sheng's shoe from his brother flying off. I wonder if that was intended. I also noticed one scene where it looks like Vaseline was smeared on the camera. I wonder if this was intended or just some bad film elements. Quite a cynical film. Obviously the Manchus are typically bad here, but so is the owner as well. Quite a bit of cowards too. I think Fu Sheng's performance here is quite good and helps out with the film. He's a counterpoint in many ways to everyone else. He is joyful, naïve (unfortunately too naïve) and playful. He just cannot exist for long. One wonders if he would have been better to stay away from the city? Would he ever have become cynical like his brother? Would he have lived if his brother did not eschew using his martial arts until the end? I was thinking how rare pocket watches were then (regardless of country). Definitely a status symbol. I like that the enemies here were not that strong. You do not see that too often. This shows how good the two martial artists are, but also that there is much more than martial arts about this movie. Action Director Liu Chia-Liang really helps here with the hong jia (hung gar) being quite superior to everything else. Honestly though I cannot imagine the film being done without the revenge ending. Cheh has an interesting use of showing dialogue but you cannot hear it. He does this in several films where you can see them talk, but you do not hear what they say. I'm pretty sure he got this from Akira Kurosawa (I'm thinking High and Low but I currently cannot remember the main scene where Kurosawa did this.) Dr. Craig D. Reid's The Ultimate Guide to Martial Art Movies of the 1970s has a nice mini-review on the film. He tends to talk mostly films from a martial arts standpoint but it is still a worthy read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted March 11, 2015 Member Share Posted March 11, 2015 On additional thing I noticed, which I will have images for whenever I remember to bring these films to this computer, is how in several of Chang Cheh's films how a weapon is admired. Fung Hak-on does it here with his not so secret weapon. In a way it looks autoerotic (not just in this film.) Is Fu Sheng just too naïve in this movie? Does it hurt your viewing of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted March 11, 2015 Member Share Posted March 11, 2015 Really interesting comments with excellent points, masterofoneinchpunch. I love this film but it's true it has some strange stuff going on like the switches to black and white and Fu Sheng's character being so naive. to be fair maybe CKC explaining his backstory and why he conceals his knowledge of MA could have made Fu Sheng understand his behavior and his now cynic persona. What I found pretty nice as far as characters go in a character aspect is that not only are the villains relatively easy to defeat (unlike in a movie like Shaolin Martial Arts where the good guys have to learn new techniques and pay a big tribute in human lives to defeat the Manchu champions), but it seems like the fighting styles match the characters: Fu Sheng's is exhuberant and not that brutal, the villain has a vicious and lethal style (that he conceals like some secret weapon) and when CKC breaks loose in the end, his style is agressive and deadly (just like a character being enraged and out for blood to avenge his friend should be). Personally, I find Fu Sheng's character very enjoyable. On a critical POV, I'd link him to the archetypal figure of the Innocent as described by Swiss psychiatrist Carl G. Jung: a faithful optimistic figure who wants to do right (I don't recall if this character also fears doing wrong and being punished though - the fear of punishment and a search for happiness being the main reasons this archetype wants to do right) but he can become boring because of his naive innocence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted March 11, 2015 Member Share Posted March 11, 2015 ... to be fair maybe CKC explaining his backstory and why he conceals his knowledge of MA could have made Fu Sheng understand his behavior and his now cynic persona. ... but it seems like the fighting styles match the characters: Fu Sheng's is exhuberant and not that brutal, the villain has a vicious and lethal style ... Personally, I find Fu Sheng's character very enjoyable. On a critical POV, I'd link him to the archetypal figure of the Innocent as described by Swiss psychiatrist Carl G. Jung: a faithful optimistic figure who wants to do right ... Good points. CKC explaining why he feels the way he did might have helped out Fu Sheng. That is kind of annoying that he keeps it all to himself almost in a self-pitying way. Fu Sheng's character is enjoyable. He has an innocently impish personality with a touch of too much naivety with his trusting ultimately being his undoing (of course this leads to the awesome fight scene with the impalement of the stomach).* It is done right that his fighting style fits his personality. I'll have to think more on the "innocent" archetype in martial art films. Fu Sheng does it well. I definitely think of him as a precursor to Jackie Chan's comedic characters (with differences of course.) I think Cheh was good to fit the personalities of the actors with their characters. The impish (not the innocent) aspects remind me of Cheh's use of David Chiang. * One aspect that I always think about in films that take place pre-1900s is how most types of stomach or intestine wounds would ultimately be fatal. In real life that type of wound could take a long time to kill you though. Michael Crichton mentions this in Eaters of the Dead where they use a test of soup (if you can smell the soup from the wound after drinking it) it mean you would be dead, possibly after a long and agonizing infection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member massa_yoda Posted March 12, 2015 Member Share Posted March 12, 2015 Is Fu Sheng just too naïve in this movie? Does it hurt your viewing of it? Honestly, I've seen worse than this. How about Disciples of the 36th Chamber for a crazy naïve lead? Doesn't bother me too much here because he's still an extremely likable character. CKC explaining why he feels the way he did might have helped out Fu Sheng. That is kind of annoying that he keeps it all to himself almost in a self-pitying way. Yeah, CKC could have been more open and patient with Fu Sheng. He definitely could have saved him had he been around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted March 12, 2015 Member Share Posted March 12, 2015 Honestly, I've seen worse than this. How about Disciples of the 36th Chamber for a crazy naïve lead? Doesn't bother me too much here because he's still an extremely likable character. ... Funny as the next film I (re)watched from Chang Cheh was The Wandering Swordsman where David Chiang's character has one of the most boneheaded and idiotic turns in believing a group he should not. His character is not innocent though impish like Fu Sheng. Since he is not innocent, him being duped is another example. He should not have been so naïve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member massa_yoda Posted March 13, 2015 Member Share Posted March 13, 2015 Funny as the next film I (re)watched from Chang Cheh was The Wandering Swordsman where David Chiang's character has one of the most boneheaded and idiotic turns in believing a group he should not. His character is not innocent though impish like Fu Sheng. Since he is not innocent, him being duped is another example. He should not have been so naïve. Apparently I need to do a rewatch of Wandering Swordsman, because I watched it not too long ago and I already don't remember that much about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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