The 8 Diagram Pole Fighter / 五郎八卦棍 (1983)

[Alexandra]

I agree, a brilliant scene. Did you notice, when we first see each brother fight, we get a single uncut shot of each, which when finishing edits to a similar shot of the next brother carrying on from the last brother's exact same move/pose, to be used on a different set of tartar foes. It carries through so smoothly that unless you're really paying attention it looks like just one person in sequence shot from several cameras & cut between. Little touches like that cement Lau Kar Leung's genius; the way he draws out the story's dynamics through choreography, and solidifies the bond between the brothers within the action. Too good.

I wonder the whole scene was taken at least with three cameras in three different angles. Every camera took a plane-sequence of a Yang fight, then the other, and so. The edition of the total of plane-sequence is smooth (in your words) and dynamic, and put the spectator into a rush of energy and dynamism impressive. The cut of a plane-sequence to another is clear (but never brutal) when the camera shot at Chang Chan Peng, as example. It's clear. All the things on scene are moving in harmony, but within an heavy atmosphere, dramatic touch, density of emotions, that not disturb the spectator. Lau Kar Leung, a genious.

Alexandra

[KyFi]

I think the music was originally made for the Daimajin movie, a really great old kaiju film from 66.

Yep, I think the bit you're talking about in 8 Diagram was an Akira Ifukube composition from Daimajin (and possibly some of the Zatoichi movies, too? I know he worked on the scores for them as well).

The part that always gives me goosebumps in 8 Diagram is when Fu Sheng is telling what happened to all his brothers at the battle, and then when he tells that the father is also dead, and every single person in the house immediately drops to their knees. That scene always gets me.

[BaronK]

Mai Te Lo's character get's trampled to death after getting blinded by the explosion. Siu Ho's character get's taken captive. They don't explain his fate.

It's here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjoyHIPM1I

If you haven't seen this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwhrAjHiIu8

[Alexandra]

Mai Te Lo's character get's trampled to death after getting blinded by the explosion. Siu Ho's character get's taken captive. They don't explain his fate.

It's here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjoyHIPM1I

If you haven't seen this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwhrAjHiIu8

AHHH! Thank you! I remember how those Yang dies!

Visit the thread that I open dedicated to Alexander!

Thanks

Alexandra

[Alexandra]

The part that always gives me goosebumps in 8 Diagram is when Fu Sheng is telling what happened to all his brothers at the battle, and then when he tells that the father is also dead, and every single person in the house immediately drops to their knees. That scene always gets me.

That scene is astonishing, Alexander shows all his potential as an dramatic actor, besides the fact that some people looks at this performance as "overacted". I don't think so, and agree with you.

Alexandra

[inframan]

I've read that Fu Sheng was supposed to have a bigger role in the film before he died. Does anyone know how much different it was supposed to have been?

[tdb]

I remember a bit about this. Fu Sheng's character was supposed to regain his sanity and then join up with Gordon Liu's character. Beyond that I'm not sure, but just given this bit, it would have been a different (better?) movie.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

I remember a bit about this. Fu Sheng's character was supposed to regain his sanity and then join up with Gordon Liu's character. Beyond that I'm not sure, but just given this bit, it would have been a different (better?) movie.

Don't think it would have been better! It's not a huge favourite of mine, but a fine film nonetheless. Fu Sheng is one of the parts that bother me!

[Alexandra]

Fu Sheng (6º Yang) recover the mental health and (supposse) go out to the Yang house and several fighting scenes were in the original storyline, because he will meet finally the barbarians whom killed his family and take revenge. The script turned later to the character of the 5º Yang, interpreted by Gordon Liu.

If this movie could be better with Fu Sheng alive and with the original storyline screenplayed, I don't know, all depends of the taste of the spectator or audience. If the director, the script and the actors are good, I suppose you will see a good movie. But EDPF was an exception because the repentine death of Fu Sheng, the sucessive changes of scripts, etc-

Alexandra

[gorhama]

This is one of my favorites...it's hard to imagine it being any better. I for one liked Fu Sheng in the movie and thought his crazy role was cool. Granted it would have been very cool to have him regain his sanity and join with Gordon Liu. I also even hate to write this but when he died it seemed like everyone put their all into the film even more than usual which gave us this dark, very emotional masterpiece we have. I would rather have Fu Sheng alive and this be a great movie for sure, but as it stands one of the trues masterpieces in my opnion.

[inframan]

Would have been cool to see Fu Sheng in the finale as well, just wondered if they had the idea of training at the temple from the beggining or if they added that in when Fu Sheng died.

When I first watched it I could hardly believe that Gordon Liu went to the Shaolin Temple, became a monk and trained in kung fu, yet again. But it works this time, the tone is so somber, dark even.

[clfnole]

Would have been cool to see Fu Sheng in the finale as well, just wondered if they had the idea of training at the temple from the beggining or if they added that in when Fu Sheng died.

When I first watched it I could hardly believe that Gordon Liu went to the Shaolin Temple, became a monk and trained in kung fu, yet again. But it works this time, the tone is so somber, dark even.

This part kind of goes along with the whole story/legend of the ng long baat kwa kwun (5th Brothers 8-Diagram Pole) form. After the defeat in battle the 5th brother was said to have become a monk, whether or not he went to shaolin might be questionable as there were a large number of temples in China at the time. He supposedly broke off the spear head and tied the red cloth at the top which symbolizes the former spear. This pole form/style is very famous in Southern kung fu styles and uses some spear techniques in addition to traditional staff techniques.

If I recall correctly Fu Sheng would have filled more areas that Hui YIng Hung had as she was written more prominently into the story after Fu Sheng passed.

[lillippa328]

yea he wouldve deff. had a bigger role......still love this film! Its incredible!

Gordon Liu said this film was his favorite and held a place in his heart because it was the last that Fu Sheng worked on...

[jalvarez82]

All I know is...Fu Sheng and Gordon Liu fighting side by side would've been so great. It definitely would've made for a better conclusive battle, in my opinion. Although, there isn't anything wrong at all with the movie the way it is. I still feel Fu Sheng's performance as the insane son was very powerful and believable.

[clfnole]

I agree while Hui Ying Hung is nice to look at Fu Sheng would have added more to the ending. The only problem is I really don't care for Fu Sheng with weapons, he is better with his hands.

[ching li]

I agree while Hui Ying Hung is nice to look at Fu Sheng would have added more to the ending. The only problem is I really don't care for Fu Sheng with weapons, he is better with his hands.

I totally agree with this post. I understand it had to be written that way for hui ying hung to get in because of fu sheng's death. But honestly it didn't really impact me as much, because her character went from this sister who practically stayed home with the mother, to this fighting warrior all out the blue. I think it would have been better if the brother who was kidnapped(yang #4) found his way back home and helped gordon liu's character, now that would have been more powerful.

[ching li]

how did Fu Sheng die?

He was killed in a car accident; it was said his older brother was the driver, fu sheng was on the passenger side, but that side was impacted the most. I read the car smashed into a wall.

[DeathFuMaster]

Yeah they hit a wall because they lost control or somethng. What a sad way to go....

[Alexandra]

He was killed in a car accident; it was said his older brother was the driver, fu sheng was on the passenger side, but that side was impacted the most. I read the car smashed into a wall.

Wrong information, still around in some internet sites: Alexander Fu Sheng was driving his Porsche 911 Targa on the highroad in Clearwater Bay the night of the 6 July 1983, (in Hong Kong driving wheel is in the right side as in England) and in the passenger seat was Chang Chan Peng, his younger brother, they went from a party in the Golf Club, near the mansion of Run Run Shaw. In a corner -- suppossedly-- Alexander took very fast the turn, and crashed into a cement wall. The paparazzi, whom were in the area looking for a breaking news, and the witessness, ran desperatly, they told to some newspapers that the impact was terrible, and some about the white suit wore by Alexander cover by blood, and some people could hear screams... The ambulance came faster and ran to the Hospital ... the accident happened around 22,30 hours, Alexander dies around 3.00 am the 7 July, after five hours of agony, fighting for his life.

You can visit my thread, here I posted the complete "night of the tragedy" and some friends made tribute to this regrettable loss.

Alexandra

[Tosh]

I totally agree with this post. I understand it had to be written that way for hui ying hung to get in because of fu sheng's death. But honestly it didn't really impact me as much, because her character went from this sister who practically stayed home with the mother, to this fighting warrior all out the blue. I think it would have been better if the brother who was kidnapped(yang #4) found his way back home and helped gordon liu's character, now that would have been more powerful.

Not really, her and her sister both bow up when the guards come through the door, then she spared with the Monk when she believed he insulted her Mother, there's no reason to think the sisters were not trained to defend the family.

This being my favorite KF movie I wouldn't want the ending any other way, unfortunately Sheng's death set the darker tone and was the driving force into making one of the best KF movies ever made. Putting the ending on Gordon Liu shoulders to save his sister put the odds that much more against him than Liu/Sheng fighting the end together, which would of been more like an older Lung/Chiang "Iron Triangle" film.

The ending from the pole fight with Ko to the monks running in with that goddamn wolf is pure KF bliss, I can't fathom it being any better.

[clfnole]

Not really, her and her sister both bow up when the guards come through the door, then she spared with the Monk when she believed he insulted her Mother, there's no reason to think the sisters were not trained to defend the family.

This being my favorite KF movie I wouldn't want the ending any other way, unfortunately Sheng's death set the darker tone and was the driving force into making one of the best KF movies ever made. Putting the ending on Gordon Liu shoulders to save his sister put the odds that much more against him than Liu/Sheng fighting the end together, which would of been more like an older Lung/Chiang "Iron Triangle" film.

The ending from the pole fight with Ko to the monks running in with that goddamn wolf is pure KF bliss, I can't fathom it being any better.

I agree the movie is just fine "as is" because since this was really a long weapon end fight I don't think Fu Sheng would have been well-suited since long weapons were not his forte. His best weapon performance in my opinion was as the Double Blade in Avenging Eagle becuase it really suited his strength which was handwork.

[jalvarez82]

Yeah. I agree that Fu Sheng was better off without the use of a weapon. He had pretty good hung gar already. His best performances were traditional hand open-hand fights.

[ching li]

Wrong information, still around in some internet sites: Alexander Fu Sheng was driving his Porsche 911 Targa on the highroad in Clearwater Bay the night of the 6 July 1983, (in Hong Kong driving wheel is in the right side as in England) and in the passenger seat was Chang Chan Peng, his younger brother, they went from a party in the Golf Club, near the mansion of Run Run Shaw. In a corner -- suppossedly-- Alexander took very fast the turn, and crashed into a cement wall. The paparazzi, whom were in the area looking for a breaking news, and the witessness, ran desperatly, they told to some newspapers that the impact was terrible, and some about the white suit wore by Alexander cover by blood, and some people could hear screams... The ambulance came faster and ran to the Hospital ... the accident happened around 22,30 hours, Alexander dies around 3.00 am the 7 July, after five hours of agony, fighting for his life.

You can visit my thread, here I posted the complete "night of the tragedy" and some friends made tribute to this regrettable loss.

Alexandra

Wow, Alexandra, some interesting info? I have never read this, where is your thread"night of the tragedy"? Thanks for sharing.

[Alexandra]

Wow, Alexandra, some interesting info? I have never read this, where is your thread"night of the tragedy"? Thanks for sharing.

Hey, just posted commentars that spinning around internet, there are lots of versions, maybe if I get some good translation of chinese newspapers of the time, we will find more about the events.

My thread is titled "Alexander Fu Sheng", you can find all you want about Alexander, you are invited.

Alexandra

[Iron Boat]

As a sometimes critic of Lau Kar Leung's directing I have no problem acknowledging that 8Diagram Pole Fighter, unlike some of his other films, lives up to all the praise and accolades it recieves from fans. In watching the movie though, sadly and ironically, I think part of its greatness is due to the revised script in light of Fu Shengs tragic death.

This statement wont win me points for sympathy but Fu Sheng's performance in 8 Diagram Pole Fighter imo is really not that good. Of course playing an insane character has a lot to do with it but his completed scenes really didn't impress me or cause me to feel empathy for his character. In fact, I felt more concern for the mother and sisters who had to accept the deaths of sons and brothers. I actually compare it to modern warfare when families recieve a fateful visit from military officials informing them that their sons or daughters were killed in active duty. Heck, Fu Sheng's character in the film survives! Though shell shocked, it doesn't outweigh the fact that the father and brothers were killed and 2 others lost, thats the tragedy.

In terms of action, Fu Sheng imo was not convincing as an expert of Yang Spear, though his screen time is limited his use of the weapon seemed somewhat amateurish. If the original script, as some speculate, called for him to rejoin Gordon Liu's character for the final battle I wonder if it would of been as great as the completed version. I'm sure this is a script change but I like the idea that Gordon Liu leaves the monastery to save his sister rather than his "insane" brother; she's a girl after all, who wants to leave their baby sister in the hands of the Mongols!!??

Also I think Fu Sheng looked great paired up in wuxia films with Ti Lung and even with Chen Kuan Tai and Chi Kuan Chun in Shaolin films, but fighting along side Gordon Liu using pole techniques I dont think his performance would of come off that well. Gordon Liu's training sequences for instance, the mechanical wolf and the duel with Phillip Ko.... ridiculously impressive, almost new wave in the choreography department.

I dont know how the original script would of addressed Gordon Liu's increased skills and sense of destiny paired with Fu Sheng's decreased skill and sanity but (dare I say it) cutting his role from the film almost seemed like a natural progression. Basically it still makes more sense to me that Liu would fight for his sister who unlike her soldier brother is not expected to be able to defeat a Mongol force.

So with that said I Iike the movie more due to Fu Sheng's role being cut...not because of his tragic death, but because it wasn't a good character. The mother and the daughters really did carry the emotion of the film better to me and Gordon Liu was so impressive that any time he is on screen your eyes are glued to the television screen. Though its great that we have a classic in 8 Diagram Pole Fighter I somewhat wish it may had turned out as the original but average version I assume it would had been........because then that would mean Fu Sheng lives!