Shaw dubs:I like them, you hate them. Let's talk about it

[Linn1]

Question: has anyone (i.e. Dragon Dynasty or Media Blasters) considered tracking down some of the people who provided the English dubbed voices?

yes, yes they have.

[Guest killer meteor]

Living in the United States, England or Austrailia, one would assume the English language is preferred.

Not necessairly. There's a growing number of people willing to watch a film with subtitles in its original language. Films are dubbed into other languages because it makes good buissness sense: a lot of people struggle with subtitles. Quality wise, the English dubbing for HK films is far behind what was achived in the US and Europe, so it's no wonder that, given the option, some people want the correct language.

Now, we finally have legit English language releases coming our way and all I read is a lot of complaining about it.

I think the majority, perhaps all, of us are either happy to see the old dubs restored, or not bothered. We're not complaining about the dubs being included.

What we ARE complaining about the lazy attitude of distributors in failing to allow us to enjoy the films in their original (or close enough) language, with subtitles that are well translated and easy to read. Dragon Dynasty released a Cantonese film, My Young Auntie, in Mandarin and their subtitles have been made using sub-standard translations. It's all well and good getting the English dubs, but when the distributor does not present the original film as well as they could, I choose to save my money and not buy.

[Guest oldeschool17]

Linn,

Is there contact info on these dubbers or is it kinda tight lip info that only people in the know will have?

[Guest Shaolin Patriot]

I'd be delighted to find out if anyone succeeded in tracking them down. Perhaps we'll discover more at the Philly Expo.

[Guest The Running Man]

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[Guest The Running Man]

Is there contact info on these dubbers or is it kinda tight lip info that only people in the know will have?

It wouldn't be that hard to find them. Many of them are still actively working.

[Guest oldeschool17]

Does anybody know their names? Did they exclusively work for Shaw Brothers, or were they contracted from the outside to do dubs for them? Any additional info would be appreciated. Thanks

[Guest The Running Man]

Well, not all the dubs were handled by the same people. My Young Auntie for example has a cast that is totally different from the usual sets of voices you hear.

That "usual" group was not exclusive to Shaw Brothers since those same people did the dubs that the Toho had commissioned for their Godzilla films. And like I said before, it's not a coincidence those films are also regarded for their crap dubbing. In fact, those Godzilla dubs were so bad that for many of the American versions of those films, American companies had them redone just so they can be releasable.

[Guest killer meteor]

Oh God, that Godzilla Vs. Megalon dub was shear agony!

[Guest The Silent Flute]

Does anybody know their names? Did they exclusively work for Shaw Brothers, or were they contracted from the outside to do dubs for them? Any additional info would be appreciated. Thanks

p081.ezboard.com/fkungfuf...0916.topic

info all from mr. wanchaitransient

[Guest gfanikf]

^Wanchaitransit was a total nut bar so I wouldn't really give anything he said including the time of day much credence.

[Guest HAZ74]

Hi,

I find dubs kind of goofy. They're comical often without meaning to be & I often wonder about how well translated they are, although the translation thing can be a big problem with subs, too. I steer clear of dubs, but I don't hate on folks that like em.

h

[Guest gfanikf]

Hmm, I guess you re-registered.

NOTE: Any post by Wanchaitransit should be considered BULLSHIT and filled with fake and useless information that has no connection to reality.

[Guest venomchamber]

In fact, those Godzilla dubs were so bad that for many of the American versions of those films, American companies had them redone just so they can be releasable.

WRONG!!!

What are you talking about?

Before you post your "fact", I suggest you check your information first before posting false information.

American companies did NOT have them redone just so they can be releasable.

GODZILLA VS MEGALON and GODZILLA VS GIGAN were NOT redubbed and the American Company Cinema Shares had no problem with them.

GODZILLA VS MECHAGODZILLA was NOT redubbed and the American company Downtown Distribution had no problem with it. (*Universal did when they renamed Mechagodzilla the "Bionic Monster" though!)

These were 3 of the 4 Toho films that had the "but still" dubs in them.

Now I'll clear up the origins of your misinformation.

AIP (thats AMERICAN INTERNATIONAL PICTURES) had their own dubbing of GODZILLA VS HEDORAH comissioned because the "international version" was too "English" for a Japanese film. What's more, they also wanted to rename the film as "GODZILLA VS THE SMOG MONSTER" with the song "Save The Earth" added to it. (The theme song remained in Japanese in the original dub.)

Most of the AIP/UPA redubs were because they preferred a more stereotypical Japanese accent that can be heard in every one of their Japanese films from LOST WORLD OF SINBAD to all of the GAMERA films and even the Sonny Chiba films for NEW LINE PICTURES!

I'm sure copyrights also fell into place here. AIP changed the name of HEDORAH to the SMOG MONSTER (perhaps for being too vague a name that also would be mistaken by kids as Ghidorah), and MOTHRA to THE THING because COLUMBIA PICTURES owned the US Mothra rights back in 64.

These films were dubbed by Titan where AIP had all of their International films redone including the Steve Reeves muscleman films, the SuperArgo films, and many many spaghetti-westerns.

So it would appear it was more to show a uniformity in ownership of the property to keep things consistent at the time. Once AIP stopped releasing them, the "but still" voices remained. When Henry G. Saperstein's UPA picked-up MECHAGODZILLA'S COUNTERATTACK and retitled it as TERROR OF MECHAGODZILLA in 1978, the Japanese accents returned as well! In 1985's THE RETURN OF GODZILLA, the Jackie Chan-era voices were firmly in place. In fact, the "but still" voices can even be heard in the 90s cycle of Godzilla films!

I'll have you know that English dubbed Toho films have been extremely popular for decades among millions of fans worldwide and are not considered a laughing stock unless the film sucked like GODZILLA'S REVENGE and GODZILLA VS GIGAN did with all their stock-footage and GODZILLA VS MEGALON with the worst looking Godzilla suit of the series*, and not because the dubbing was performed by hacks as you say. (*BTW: this was because it was a leftover from the Meteor Man Zone Fighter TV series.)

Toho also supplied ADV Films in 1998 with an International dubbed version of DESTROY ALL MONSTERS ( 1968 ) because of the AIP copyrighted voices featuring Hal Linden of Barney Miller!

For all I know the ADV version could have been re-dubbed much later in the 70s!

So what's this business about American companies redubbing them just so they're releasable?

One more thing: since when were Shaw Brothers films ever considered a 'laughing stock'? When 5 Fingers Of Death, Duel Of The Iron Fist, Triple Irons, Street Gangs Of Hong Kong and 7 Blows Of The Dragon were all released in 1973-1974 nobody, and I mean nobody was laughing at them. If you laughed, it was along with it, not at it. Do you think anybody laughed at Bruce Lee during FISTS OF FURY? Even when he punched the guy through the wall and it made a cookie-cutter pattern of the guy? Or a the happy, playful-looking dogs being pulled on sleds that were supposed to be ferocious & vicious guard dogs? No. Of course not.

I don't know of anybody who knows anybody that considers THE 36th CHAMBER OF SHAOLIN, FIVE VENOMS or SUPER NINJAS a 'laughing stock', but I know a lot of people who do think Bruce Li (unintentionally) and Jackie Chan's films (intentionally) from that period are.

I and many others here in New York who take Shaw Brothers movies very seriously, feel the people who would consider these a 'laughing stock' are snobby racist people who don't like Asians due to WW2 or Viet-Nam or whatever and refer to Chinese food as "the chinks". Then there's the old folk who casually notice "oh look...the words don't match their mouth", then there are the college kids who only watch "art films" and such.

We all know someone who fits into one or more of these categories...stop me if I'm lying!

If you associate with people who think dubbed Shaw films are a laughing stock, man, you need to run with a new crowd!

Those hacks as you call them have helped create a huge following of fans around the world by making these films watchable to the public.

Now, I don't mind Mandarin or Cantonese, that's why I have over 400+ films from IVL so far. I just feel that Americans should be able to access prestine English dubbed versions rather that resort to bootlegs only.

And if you feel an English dub doesn't affect the buying power, then you are gravely mistaken my friend! Go to a video store and hang around for a while and watch what people pick-up...and put back on the shelf! I did!

I'll have you know the Best Buy stores in my area are completely sold out of the 4 dubbed DD releases, but the shelves are full of the non-dubbed Vengeance Is A Golden Blade, The Shadow Whip, & Heaven And Hell from Image. These are a couple of lesser known films that have little or no buying power in the Chinese language here in the states that would require a dub just to be sold. Besides, whoever wants them can get them cheaper in Chinatown anyways! Why pay more for less ($17.99 vs $13.99)?

It appears to me (and the manager of the store) that the general public prefers English over Chinese.

[Guest killer meteor]

Any post by Wanchaitransit should be considered BULLSHIT and filled with fake and useless information that has no connection to reality.

Why do you say that? AFAIK, only one person disputed his claims originally.

[Guest oldeschool17]

well thanks for the reply i guess. Didnt mean to ask that question to rehash some old drama. if i would have known that, i wouldnt have asked.

[Guest Austin Jones]

Total pwnage venomchamber, total pwnage!

:lol

Austin Jones

[Guest gfanikf]

gfanikf i care 0 amount for this type of talk or behavior, im not an internet warrior, i dont own a website.

i just joined this forum after 4 years of just viewing ocassionaly. i dont have time for this type of thing.

''name calling, bashing'' or whatever it is you guys do here when you have no life etc. Arguing is pityful

enough as it is in real life, but to do it on the internet especially after it seems the guy your after is long

gone then you Should be ashamed.

I'm not ashamed of anything. You missed the parts where Wanchaitransit went on a tirade about Jews not being real Jews and posting part of the Protocols of the Elder of Zion. I wouldn't consider him a good source on anything. Thats the reason he is gone. Plus I recall some of his posts matched a fake (complete with fake interviews with Godfrey Ho) IFD site.

[Guest venomchamber]

Hey, everyone is entitled to an opinion and not everybody likes the same thing, that's quite understandable.

But when I see something labeled a fact that I know from experience is false, I aim to correct it for the benefit of everybody, that's all.

bottom line:

Dubs = U.S. popularity in viewership & sales.

You don't have to buy or rent them, and there's no need to complain about a total package when just about everybody here already has an IVL or Deltamac copy already.

Why double-dip on movies we already have if not for the dub that more seem to like than don't?

Just keep up with the DD releases and look forward to the MB releases so we can get rid of our crappy old VHS tapes and Red Sun bootlegs!

Can I get an a-men to that?

My sincerest regards to anyone who may have misinterpreted my words or intentions as it was not my desire to offend any posters on this forum.

'nuff said!

[Guest killer meteor]

You don't have to buy or rent them, and there's no need to complain about a total package when just about everybody here already has an IVL or Deltamac copy already.

The IVLs and Deltamacs are inferior in picture quality and some have truly awful remixes. Some are useless

Therefore, it is essential that Dragon Dynasty and others ensure they get the correct Chinese dialect in the original mono. My Young Auntie is not worth buying for the dub when it doesn't have the correct Cantonese audio

[Guest venomchamber]

The IVLs and Deltamacs are inferior in picture quality and some have truly awful remixes.

My Young Auntie is not worth buying for the dub when it doesn't have the correct Cantonese audio

What is wrong with the IVL copy of MY YOUNG AUNTIE?

It looks just as good as the DD disc and they both look great!

Even on plasma! (Unless you are referring to the VCD which always look inferior anyways.)

Perhaps I just didn't realize so many posters here speak and understand fluent Cantonese, or is everybody just getting anal? (*as in picky)

But still, I do agree with the remixes. Its sad when an old TV copy has a more accurate soundtrack than the DVD release. But it appears it is something they have stopped doing and I suspect they won't use it on the North American releases.

[Linn1]

Perhaps I just didn't realize so many posters here speak and understand fluent Cantonese, or is everybody just getting anal? (*as in picky)

It's more like most kung fu fans that have been watching them long enough can easily tell the difference between Cantonese and Mandarin. And it does make a difference even to folks that can't speak the language fluently.IMO, an incorrect soundtrack is just as bad as the remixes because I can tell while I'm watching. It's not a question of it not being the original actors to me, it's because the lips move differently and voices change from film to film bring me out of the experence.

But it appears it is something they have stopped doing and I suspect they won't use it on the North American releases.

But if they continue to screw this up, it doesn't help at all. People who like dubs have waited for English dubs and are in now possibly in the same boat as people who have also waited for non-remixed versions of the films in the original language. But what if DD or someone else release a dvd that has the wrong soundtrack, but there's only has a remixed version in HK? Your advice, to watch the HK version is then null and void. Let alone, in many cases (as with the first year or so of batchs of IVLs, cut versions like Chinatown Kid, the first few batchs in HK of 16:9 titles that were simply upconverted, etc) the HK version will be inferior visually to the newer release.

[Guest Chen Zhen]

No. Not dubs. Bad dubs did. And those Shaw Brother dubs ARE bad dubs as is a large amount of the dubs made for HK films in the 80s.

please direct me to a 70s kung fu movie that had a technical "good" dub. im all ears.

No.

Comedy in a movie is comedy. Wether it'd be funny or not. But that has nothing to do with a group of talentless hacks making a mockery of the film due to their lack of care and skill.

And sorry, I don't see the connection between fance-like 10 minute fights and how that justifies a bad dub job.

obviously u completely missed my point. im not going to argue about the technical quality of the english dubs. the point i was making is that many of these old school kung fu movies were uber-surreal, flat out silly, and contained many elements that warranted being made fun of by those who are unfamiliar with the genre. for instance, along with the dubbing, the typical revenge plotline is probably the most mocked part of classic kung fu around. or the 'dance' like fighting. show a kung fu movie to someone not versed well in it, and if they think its stupid, i bet u they'll have more to complain about than JUST the dub.

Yes, they were.

Just cause a large amount of kung fu films were bad doesn't mean the majority of the genre was. All genres are made up of mostly bad films.

What's the very first thing people make fun of when they make fun of martial arts movies? I don't know how you don't catch on that it's the dubbing.

did u even read any of my original post?? i clearly acknowledged that the dubs had a strong contribution to the bad image. but ur kidding urself if u truly believe that the dubs are the ONLY thing ppl make fun of kung fu movies about.

I already wrote this in my reply to you on the previous page and I will repeat it here:

THIS IS NOT A SUB VS DUB DEBATE.

It's about the Shaw Brother dubs and that they are bad.

uh, not quite. it may not have started as one, but it clearly turned into one rather quickly. once again, i have no interest in discussing the technical aspects of what goes into a good dub....to myself and many, a good old school dub features many of the classic voices that everyone grew up with. admittedly, i wasnt crazy about the late SB dubs, cuz like BKarza stated, they changed the crew or somethin, and it didnt have that magic anymore. call it nostalgic, i dont really care.

You need to get around more then because plenty do.

It's really impressive Chen how people like have actually fooled yourself into believing these dubs played no role in the genre being not respected in the West. That's rather ignorant of you.

and you need to get around to reading my posts more thoroughly before posting a response. correct me if im wrong, but i believe one of the first things i stated in my initial response was "did the dubs contribute to the poor image of the genre? absolutely".

but whats really impressive, Running Man, is how you've been fooled into thinking that the genre's cliches, such as the aforementioned repetitive revenge plots for instance, played no role int he genre being not respected in the west. i would argue thats fairly ignorant of you as well.

this argument is not so much as to how techinically good the dubs were...because that is 100% subjective, and depending on who you are and whether u grew up with the films or not, or whether u classify it as 'nostalgic' or whatever, ones opinion can vary. i dont think anybody really cares, because anyone who enjoys the dubs, are going to continue to, and anyone, like urself, who hates teh SB dubs, will continue to do so.

this (well, my) argument is that these movies (not all, but many of them), were highly entertaining b-movies, whether theyre dubbed or not, and were subject to being clowned nonetheless.

They are not entertaining to listen to because they call attention to themselves because of how bad they are. That impedes in the telling of the story and only makes the film look bad.

if ppl did not find them entertaining, then nobody would be begging for these english dubs they way they do. please do not speak for everyone, YOUR displeasure for them are certainly not mine or others.

They stained it so much that people like you actually believe that these movies should be seen that way so we can laugh at them as if they are worthless piles of trash.

if u want to watch ur subs, go for it. i like my dubs. fortunately, we're in 2007 now, and everybody has the option. just cuz im happy with the dubs doesnt give u any right to player hate on ppl who enjoy them. and i never sed they "SHOULD" be seen that way. i watch subs sometimes. but where do u get off that EVERY person who watches the dubs just simply does so to laugh at them? unless a particular comedic bit was goin on, i dont laugh at them. anyone who understands the genre who prefers teh dubs dont laugh at them. i find it ridiculous that u think its impossible to watch a movie with a dub and not laugh at it.

If you really believe that those horrendous dub jobs are good or how these movies should be, then you don't respect the genre.

now that hands down has to be the most closeminded, elitist bullsh*it ive ever read. Get the F*ck outta here with that bullsh*t. who the f*ck r u to tell me, or ANYONE for that matter that i dont respect the genre cuz i like SB/english dubs? who the hell are u to criticize my preferences? i got nothing against OG languages. i acknowledge that they contributed to the genre's image. but i enjoy them...as do many of us. get the f*ck off or high horse and get an open mind. i dont need anyone to tell me that i love kung fu movies to death, and i certainly dont need to prove to elitists like u that kung fu movies have a warm spot in my heart. furthermore, i dont need to go on an anti-dub.original language only campaign to prove anything. i love these movies just as much as ANY and EVERY one on this site, whether i have as many films as Falkor, or whether im the biggest elitest prick or not.

if u wanna spend all ur time worrying about how other ppl enjoy their films, rather than just enjoying the films the way you want to enjoy them, go ahead. but how dare you judge me or anyone else. f*ck all that noise.

u always come onto these types of threads with ur strong opinions, ones that i oftne disagree with, but can accept and respect, then u always make these subtle implications that offend or belittle ppl. stop looking down on ppl, ur no better than anyone.

[bobo]

i,ll admit it. i bought MY YOUNG AUNTIE solely for getting a remastered english dub version. i,ll buy them all to get better dubbed versions. i had planned to buy all of images shaws as well but they back stabbed the fans so theres a good chance i won,t be buying anymore of their stuff unless they include the dubs. i,m still hopeing that they will include the english dub with deadly breaking sword. i know its a long shot.

[Guest Austin Jones]

Amen, Chen Zhen. I couldn't have summed it up better myself.

BTW, just got through watching Swordsman and Enchantress tonight - I hate to say it, but the subs were pretty bad.:rolleyes Very enjoyable movie, though.

Austin Jones