Guest GwaiLoMoFo Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 from the root to the fruit. Im a Chiang Sheng fan too! I think the Venoms are amazing when it comes to weapons work and acrobatics. Almost too much peking opera in their fighting though. Hand to hand stuff sometimes feels too staged. Which is probably why my fav Venoms flicks are more weapon oriented (ie Masked Avengers & Flag Of Iron). Not to say its not good, just not as much my taste as LKL's chory. And while their acrobatics are second to none, it can have that circus performance feel to it. As a choreographer like Sammo or LKL better incorporate acrobatics into the action (imo). Those are very small complaints though, they are still extremely fun to watch. 5 Element Ninjas was the first Shaw film I ever wathced. So if it wasnt for the Venoms, I probably wouldnt have dug deeper into the Shaw universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iron flag Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Iron Boat, you should probably avoid the Brave Archer series |I But I can vouch for House of Traps and SSwRB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tosh Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 When I first watched sswrb I didn't get some of the fight scenes (I may have been tired or drunk the first time I watched it), which is strange as I like all the venoms movies, but it took another viewing to get the genius of the "Five Element Array", now that's the best part of the movie! I love the humor in the Venoms films, I've been noticing the difference of humor between their films and others at the time, seems they took on an almost subtle 3 stooges comic routine, more with facial expressions and throwing the comedy in their fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kwok Choi Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Live wire I agree with you but don't give up on Shaolin Rescuers,The Daredevils and The Magnificient Ruffians.The Venoms were unfortunate to make their mark almost at the same time as the release of Snake In The Eagle's Shadow (a movie that almost revolutionized Hong Kong film-making) so the stupendous box office success of this low budget film set a new trend for martial art prowess over substance ie character development and plot.Shaws were still big at the time so they wouldn't take that on the chin.Chang Cheh was the golden box office director his films had to make money.Shaws didn't mind experimenting with other directors but since One Armed Swordsman,Chang Cheh movies had to sell.This somehow pressurized the maestro into retaining that pole position therefore something had to give. Chang Cheh had an amazing choice of multi-talented actors in his grasp but by this time the emphasis was mainly on fresh " new " martial arts - enter the Venoms and co. (Compare Chang Cheh movies made before the release of Snake In The Eagle's Shadow and the advent of the Venoms) Even though these guys were raw,- Sun Chien proved he can act in Chinatown Kid,Lo Mang was ok in The Magnificient Ruffians and The Last Strike,Lu Feng in Magnificient Ruffians and The Flag Of Iron,Kuo Chue in Life Gamble and Ode To Gallantry,Chiang Sheng in The Flag Of Iron and Crippled Avengers,- their acting ability was not their selling point.As a result they were almost always typecast.It is even rumoured that some top brass at Shaws commented that The Venoms were too ugly to be leading men then Chang Cheh retorted that he is not interested in their faces. If you enjoyed Rebel Intruders and Two Champions Of Shaolin chances are you will generally appreciate Shaolin Rescurers,The Daredevils and especially Magnificent Ruffians where despite the kung fu showcase of the Venoms they were given more acting range making this movie an overall solid piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kungfusamurai Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 more with facial expressions and throwing the comedy in their fighting. ----------------------------------------------------- Although there are times when they laugh or joke around, it just seems too forced and fake. All of their expressions seemed to be over-exaggerated, like those actors in the old Hollywood silent films. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Live Wire Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 @Kwok Choi: I haven´t enjoyed Two Champions of Shaolin and Rebel Intruders that much. So I will skip Daredevils and Shaolin Rescuers (i also never liked annoying comedy). But I will order Magnificent Ruffians, KWTGA and HOT in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest italdesign Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Ah, the good old Venoms. Many of us are fans of THE VENOMS. But I wonder how many of us actually like ALL 5 or 6 venoms? I personally respect all of them, but my fandom belongs to Lo Mang, Wei Pai, and Sun Chien mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kwok Choi Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Ok Live Wire get Magnificient Ruffians and The Kid With The Golden Arms but forget House Of Traps unless you just fancy owning a copy of a restored and remastered print of a so called "rare" Venoms flick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Live Wire Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 @Thanx for your advice. You´re right. I will buy House of Traps just to own it. My expectations are not very high. Only to see the "hats" of Lu Feng and Kuo Chui makes me wonder how cheesy this film must be. They look like rabbit ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Personally, I think all SEVEN VENOM'S are untouchable. Kuo Chui -this guy is a great actor, unsurpassible commmand of balance and dexterity, and his choreographs are very rehearsed, therefore very realistically executed. With a few exceptions I don't think the chinese opera trainging weakens his weapon's or hand to hand displays at all. His hand to hand battle with Lo Mang in, Kid With The Golden Arm is awesome. Lu Feng -I don't think there's a more evil (demonic) and menacing villian in martial arts cinema that surpasses this guy's presence, acting, and most especially martial art skills, opera based training or not. This man always delivers in his performances. His fierce, stoic, demeanor, and his solid vicious attitude displayed with his battles, coupled with an appropriated script to his cunningly, insidious villian roles in eg. Magnificent Ruffians , he uses that weapon amazingly well and what a very well scripted storyline for said film, Two Champions Of Shaolin, where here poses as a scholar who knows nothing about martial arts while all the time placating Lo Mang so as to strike him when he least expects it, he even pulls off the intolerant good guy in Invincible Shaolin very well, great film too. Chiang Sheng -with his light skills expertise. This guy has a wonderful aloof and light-hearted character that can stand huis ground against the best of em'. An amazing dexterity and quickness in his fighting, though usually on the defensive (which I feel is appropriate in regards to his light weight) he really loved crafting the fight scenes and cherished parts in all the Venom films. He dose excellent knife work in Magnificent Ruffians and great acting here too, excellent performance in Crippled Avengers, Flag Of Iron displays some of his best work as well, and in Invincible Shaolin he really shines with both his acting and fighting. They wouldn't have been the Venom's without him. Sun Chien -this guy possess' some of the best leg work in the genre as well, though maybe not as quick as Hwang Lee or John Liu, Tan Tao Liang, he was comprised of more girth and stature which lent him a more believable result when he landed a choice blow with one of his kicks. He has a great role in Shaolin Rescuers where his teacher (Chan Shen) is constantly taking a devious students side against him and reprimanding him unjustly, Invincible Shaolin must be one of his greatest momments as well. His footwork really shines in this film, great story and plot as well as having some of the best training scenes in a martial arts film. Lo Mang -this guy is great. No acrobatics here just all out kung fu with an occasional weapon here or there. In Human Lantern's, he was very cool and used these weapon's somewhat like butterfly knives, though shaped a little differently. His in your face, self assured and a usually a little too confident presence always lent great charm to this guy's roles. In Magnificent Ruffian's he was great with circling the aristocratic Lu Feng looking him up and down and simply not impressed. He along side Chiang Sheng and Kuo Chuim these three affected humor between there respective characters very effectively. Another testiment to their acting skills. In Invincible Shaolin he was great with the training scenes and the finally battle that ensued. Kid Witgh The Golden Arm really showcased his whole bearing though and the fighting between him and Kuo Chui was simply fantastic as aforementioned. Also, in Brave Archer Three, I thought he added a great deal to that film. Wang Li -in my opinion this guy should've been considered up there as a Venom. Flawless in his abiliyies and totally capable of carrying a lead role, Wang Li kicked ass in Magnificent Ruffians along side Chiang Sheng and Sun Chien, in Killer army as the main rival in the revenge of Lo Mang, he's in so many Venom's films far more than Wei Pai. I'll a;sways consider him the sixth Venom. Wei Pai -(I'm not even sure I've spelt his name correctly but I'm running late for work and don't have the time to look it up) this guy's greatest Venom role IMO was the obstinate warrior opposed to the drunken Kuo Chui. Always choosing honor and valour over his woman, he really did a great job in this film. He was only in a few (if not one more) Venom film if I remember correctly, The Five Deadley Venoms which he did a decent job as well. The Venom's will always hold a special place in Shaw Brothers library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 I think Lu Feng's performance in Two Champions is wonderful, especially the withering look he gives when Lo Meng is boasting. Perhaps the Venoms would have succeeded had they done more films with a strong emotional context. Snake In The Eagle's Shadow is really gripping and moving but the only Venoms film to really grip and involve the audience is Crippled Avengers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chen Zhen Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 lu feng always has the exact same expression on his face..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tosh Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Right on Vengence, that sums them up pretty well, and I agree Wang Li should be considered a Venom as well along with Wei Pai. Just because some of them was opera trained, does not make them - not martial artists, if you ask me Kuo Chui was just as talented a lead man as any martial artist at that time, all their abilities combined, throw in the consistant talent of the baby Venoms, and who cares if the scripts and plots were weak, I'll take a Venoms movie over anything GH could offer anyday!:evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stormybman Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Kuo Chou was probably the most talented of the venoms, onscreen... I feel he had Jackie Chan type abilities, however, these talents worked best amongst one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldeschool17 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 my sentiments vengeanceofhumanlanterns. You basically summed up what i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr HKmovie Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 "the only Venoms film to really grip and involve the audience is Crippled Avengers"? WTF? Five Deadly Venoms played in various theaters in the Philly area for months, and people saw that movie over and over again. To me personally, the only movie I saw in the '70s that gripped me more was Star Wars. Even today, anyone who saw Five Deadly Venoms back then still remembers it. Every boy had their favorite character. You couldn't be more wrong.... Snake in the Eagle's Shadow didn't have nearly the impact, although I agree it's a great film as well. The Venoms films always had the biggest impact on the audiences when I was at the theater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GwaiLoMoFo Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Kwok Choi by far is the most well rounded Venom. He's the only one who (imo) is actually a good actor. The rest were unbelievably gifted physically, but couldnt act a lick! Sometimes the acting is down right laughable. But they have it where it counts most in a KF film, the action dept. Nobody watches a Venom flick for their dramatic performances. If anybody says that they do.... they are lying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 I must say upon veiwing Invincible Shaolin tonight (IVL's version for the first time) Wei Pai's performance is excellent. The translations aren't too bad either, and the nostalgia of the english dubs is definitely kept in tact. Great training scene for Wei Pai as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Having just seen Masked Avengers and Ten Tigers of Kwantung, I am now a Venoms fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chen Zhen Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 out of all the venoms movies, i think Invincible Shaolin is the most overrated one. i just simply cannot figure out what all the hype with that movie is about. some of the action wsa good, but everything else was sooooo conventional....which is odd for the venoms, since chang cheh usually always gave them interesting scripts/stories. i give them credit for that....they rarely stick to the conventional type of films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldeschool17 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 i too thought it was overrated. I liked the training scenes the most out of the movie. I just didnt like the ending at all. It seemed rushed and uninspired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member bubbabgone Posted July 2, 2007 Member Share Posted July 2, 2007 i too thought it was overrated. Maybe it needed more cow bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HAZ74 Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Just watched Masked Avengers. I'm not much of a Venoms fan, but I thought Masked Avengers was pretty good. I can't say I find any one Venom a particularly good actor & their moves sometimes look a bit too Cirque De Soleil for my tastes, but they do have a certain panache. The story in Masked Avengers was okay for me. The fights were cool, but there was a bit too much trident twirling going on. They can be just a tad too self-indulgent which makes everything going on look a bit silly. I mean, just before the climatic fight, you got a guy a baton twirling exhibition that goes on for a couple minutes. I'd put Masked Avengers up there with 5 Venoms or Crippled Avengers. Frankly, I don't know if I'd ever watch Masked Avengers again, which is no slight to the movie. There are a lot of Shaw's I've seen that I liked but that I don't really have any desire to see ever again. Also, while these guys were really physically able, their choreography didn't really leave me stunned. I just watched Dance Of the Drunk Mantis & that movie had some awesome set pieces. Masked Avengers had some memorable action, but nothing at the level of Dance of DM, IMO. I think the thing that makes the Venoms cool is that they embody machismo. If Hemmingway would have liked KF movies, I'd bet he'd be a Venoms fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest morgoth Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 It seems everyone thinks Invincible Shaolin is overrated or underrated. I think it's pretty good. Why does everythign have to be classified as overrated? Just because some people think it is better than you did, that doesn't make it overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 I think as a film Invincible Shaolin is pretty poor, redeemed only by its cast and fights. The script is dire, relying on very poorly inserted exposition (the first five mins have Wang Lung-wei clumsily explaining the plot, which Star Wars has taught us can be done with an introductory text), the direction dull and faceless, and the music and cinematography very uninspiring. Rather like Chang Cheh's Shaolin cycle, I guess the subject didn't interest him much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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