Guest Iron Boat Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Okay maybe I shouldnt say I dont like them because that isn't true, I just dont think that many of their films are that good. I only say this because so many fans go crazy for just about any of their work. IMO, Crippled Avengers is Superb and the Venoms, all of them, are amazing in that film. From there it is a steep and consistent decline. IMO there best films are Crippled Avengers (perfect in every way), 5 Deadly Venoms (moreso for its popularity than its action), Shaolin Rescuers, (because this film is actually different from the rest), and then the bag pops. Golden Arm, Masked Avengers, Flag of Iron, Daredevils, Ode to Gallantry, Two Champions, are films that I havent bothered to watch twice. Now I did find Magnificent Ruffians and Killer Army interesting because of the sets and their work in Chinatown kid and Death Chambers is good to. But overall I think the venoms are a tad bit overrated. :evil :evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sevenhooks Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I don't think you're alone, just in the minority perhaps. I think HAZ doesn't care so much for the Venoms either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dahnamics Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 lo meng is my dude. the others i don't care for too much. especially chiang sheng.. if u wanna start a "chiang sheng is wack" bandwagon i'll gladly hop on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ivy Ling Po Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Iron Boat I am with you. Crippled Avengers is their best film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldeschool17 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 ive always been a big fan of theirs. i think their fight choreography is one of the best during that era. they all had such good chemistry with one another. they displayed more realistic kung fu than most kung fu actors during that time in my opinion. Ill agree, Crippled Avengers is one of their best. I like 5 Venoms, but i think Crippled Avengers is way better. I also liked Masked Avengers and Flag of Iron. I dunno, to each his or her own, but im a fan of theirs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member bobo Posted June 5, 2007 Member Share Posted June 5, 2007 hey lets not forget the very excellent LIFE GAMBLE. lets hope that dragondynasty releases the uncut original english dub version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldeschool17 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 hey lets not forget the very excellent LIFE GAMBLE. lets hope that dragondynasty releases the uncut original english dub version. where are your sources that dragon dynasty has Life Gamble in their possession? As far as I know, for Venom flims, they have 5 Venoms and Crippled Avengers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CLFNole Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I don't understand why Invincible Shaolin doesn't get more love. Besides Crippled Avengers, which I also like, this is one of the few venoms film where they train to get good and depict more actual styles, rather than the usual movie where they are already experts and primarily utilize weapons or no particular style. I have seen a lot of posts not liking Invincible Shaolin but I never could understand why. I am not a big Wei Pai guy but even I could stand him in this one. Back to the original question though, I find I liked the Venoms more when I was young and didn't understand or practice kung fu. Their acrobatics and weapons amazed me. Getting older and having learned kung fu for the past 15 years I began to have more of an appreciation for LKL's movies and some of the actors that were more KF trained versus opera trained. I enjoy the Venoms films but they don't have the WOW factor they had when I was a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldeschool17 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 i liked Invincible Shaolin, but primarily for the training scenes. The fighting scenes were good but other parts of the movie were meh for me. I was a lil dissapointed in the ending, but im a sucker for happy endings in kung fu. On a scale of 1-10, id give it a 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmungus Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 CC wasnt at the top of his game during his 'venoms-phase' and it does show a little (generally speaking; there are exceptions to the rule). the shaws philosophy in terms of production/budget that started with the declining demand for martial arts movies in the late 70s may be part of the 'problem' as well. i love the venoms regardless- they play an ultra-tight gig, great chemistry. they have a nice, cartoonish comic-book-hero like charm, a unique combination of styles and qualities, they re childhood heroes and therefore pure cult material, plus they give it to us rugged, bloody and raw. "crippled avengers" and "5 venoms" are ACE old school flix. "flag of iron", "masked avengers", "rebel intruders", "kid/golden arms" and the underrated "legend of the fox" are very potent, well made MA productions with very little to complain about imo. ("5 element ninjas"), "invincible shaolin", "2 champions of shaolin", "sword/royal blood", "shaolin rescuers" & the good fun mess that is "10 tigers..." have their pros and cons, but the wicked top notch fu they feature makes them must-have titles for (almost) any kf/oldskool fan. various elements other than the fighting may be questionable or downright sloppy, convoluted, tired.... here. not necessarily saying the rest isnt up to par- i find "ode to gallantry" to be a really decent movie overall, "house of traps" should be as well, although my crappy copy would spoil the pleasure quite a bit for me (wont judge before ive seen the celestial print), the "ruffians" used to be one i remember being kinda fond of too, but ive been workin on eradicating memories about that flick ever since i was certain there will be a remastered version in the not so distant future. "shaolin daredevils" wont ever be a fave of mine; then again, the (marathon) end fight is legendary. i also dig "heaven and hell" and the "BA series", provided im in the right mood. dunno "life gamble" (yet). ingredients that make some CC/venom(ou)s movies lacking are (just from my pov of course)... cheap, limited sets (comparatively speaking); simplistic, repetitive, underwritten screenplays; generic, tired camera work; sub par acting, a convoluted/messy conglomerate plot; bad pacing choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chinatown Kid Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 My favorite Venom film is Invincible Shaolin, followed by Kid with the Golden Arm, 5 Venoms, Crippled Avengers, and Magnificent Ruffians. I like pretty much all their films though and find Lu, Kuo, and Chiang's acrobatics and athletiscism amazing. I also love to see Sun Chien doing his TKD kicks. And can't forget the badass Lo Mang ripped to shreads who kinda reminds me of Bruce Lee. I can understand why they might not be everybody's cup of tea though, I also like and appreciate LKL's great authentic style Kung Fu fights as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KyFi Posted June 5, 2007 Member Share Posted June 5, 2007 "CC wasnt at the top of his game during his 'venoms-phase' and it does show a little (generally speaking; there are exceptions to the rule). the shaws philosophy in terms of production/budget that started with the declining demand for martial arts movies in the late 70s may be part of the 'problem' as well. i love the venoms regardless- they play an ultra-tight gig, great chemistry. they have a nice, cartoonish comic-book-hero like charm, a unique combination of styles and qualities" *************** Yep, that pretty much sums up my opinion. I think CC's work from the early 70's was better in terms of overall cinematic quality and groundbreaking formulas, but the Venoms are undeniably fun and entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iron Boat Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Whats funny is that despite writing this thread and stating that the Venoms is not my cup of tea, I still aggressively pursue collecting any and all of their films...the lure is too much to resist. Though I still wonder what in the world is 10 Tigers of Kwangtung about.... I still have yet to see: Legend of the Fox Sword Stained with Royal Blood Life Gambles House of Traps The Brave Archer Series maybe one of these will provide a nice surprise.... regarding Invincible Shaolin, for me the problem is that there is no battle with Wang Lung Wei, therefore the film turned into a typical venoms styled opera, and the site of Chiang Shiang walking around with a spear through his torso while standing and chatting with Phillip Kwok just ruined any element of believability. :lol , but hey, at least they had girlfriends in that film.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teako170 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Am I the Only One who Dont Like the Venoms www.barbneal.com/wav/ltun...gleg33.wav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I took a while to warm to the Venoms, and it doesn't help that aside from Crippled Avengers - which is fantastic - much of their output is lacking. I really like Chiang Sheng, he's really funny and charming, and Lu Feng and Lo Meng both deserve honourable mentions, but I'm not overly impressed by Kwok Choi or Sun Chien and Wei Pei gets on my nerves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest monk sante Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I'M a Venoms Freak.........I love all their stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stuntman Jules Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I don't care for the Venoms movies that much either. I like Chang's David Chiang/Ti Lung cycle stuff way, way better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peringaten Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 There is nothing else in cinema history like the intensity the various Venoms-era players (core & peripheral) could drum up in full flow, regardless of the situation such played out in. Chang Cheh's primary concern was to showcase this. He more than beautifully allowed such awesome physical interplay to flourish in it's own truly unique manner with a little varying spice to punch it up in each given scenario. I love everything that the Venoms are. My critical opinion holds little stead as I come to terms with just what these films actually represent. Get a little understanding and acceptance of just what's going on as it is. His convention and work at this point may not have parallelled others' conventional filmmaking techniques (or even his previous), but few parallelled that which he now presented so uniquely by this point (even his previous; a different concern at play). Visceral opera and martial based physical brutality produced primarily as visually conducive cinema through the extremities of human physical achievement. I love everything these Venoms films are; from the root to the fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 I love everything these Venoms films are; from the root to the fruit. What he said. :evil Right on peringaten! Are 1985 - Present posters razzin the Shaw Bros Film posters? Venom's suck! Shaolin Abbot sucks! etc. etc, I think what we might got our selves here is a failure to comunicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tosh Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 I grew up watching the Venoms, so it's been a real treat watching these movies remastered, almost like watching them for the first time in some cases, I think you'd be hard pressed to find 5 such talented actors, each of whom brought 5 different abilities and personalities that worked so great off each other, I'll agree, some of the movies weren't going to win many awards, even back in the day, but when it comes down to the KF, the Venoms ALWAYS deliver, and they do it in their unique way. Btw, Invincible Shaolin rules, and I even like Wei Pai. from the root to the fruit. :lol :lol :lol :lol :rollin My new catch phrase! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Live Wire Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Venom Films are a mixed bag for me. I like the five actors as an onscreen fighting team. But sadly their movies are often not well directed and the sreenplays were often poor too. Good examples for that are Rebel Intruders and Two Champions of Shaolin. And allthough I haven´t seen them I could imagine Shaolin Rescuers, The Daredevils and Magnificent Ruffians fit in that category too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kungfusamurai Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Venoms films are essentially mindless entertainment. They films designed to provoke deep though or introspection, unlike Chang Cheh's earlier Shaolin cycle films. But there are still some great themes that run true in the films, like comradery, friendship, and going so far as to die for ones friend. Not much on the romantic side (heterosexual, that is), except for Invincible Shaolin. If you really wanna hook someone onto kung fu films, the Venoms flicks are the way to go. Although, I would have to say that Lau Kar Leung's films from the same era are far better overall, with the exception of some annoying comic moments. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chen Zhen Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 i find venoms movies very overrated as well. theyre by no means bad....but when fans rave and rant about their movies, i often feel disappointed when i dont think theyre THAT good. the only venoms movies ive seen which lived up to the hype to me was Kid with the Golden Arms and 5 Venoms. everything else was average or slightly better than average imo. their fight choreography is hit and miss with me. sometimes its brilliant, ie kid with the golden arms, but often times i find it too circus-y. especially crippled avengers.....watch the fight between phillip kwok/chiang sheng vs lu feng....that ish is pure circus. in terms of the action, i find that the venoms fights usually dont take advantage of the camera either. now i like long takes, but u gotta switch the camera up a bit.... thats the technical Chen Zhen talking there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kungfusamurai Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 especially crippled avengers.....watch the fight between phillip kwok/chiang sheng vs lu feng....that ish is pure circus. --------------------------------------------------- Yes, that final fight has always bothered me. Too much flips for the sake of flipping. All you need is some crashing cymbals and beating drums, to give it that final peking opera touch. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peringaten Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 I wouldn't call it circus so much, with perhaps the exception of Daredevils which was kind of orchestrated as such, so much as an evolution of Taiwanese & Peking Opera (as KFS pointed out) to progress screenfighting, much as Lau Kar Leung furthered Hung Gar for his films; something CC had taken on board as an essential ingredient previously, but moved more towards opera stylings... Personally the more athleticism and flips/opera styling the better imo - CC once again furthering the opera stylings and traditions for which he seemed so passionate... something he'd been doing for years - look at the opera The Boundary Gate he'd showcased in Vengeance, 7 Man Army, and at the end of Fantastic Magic Baby - the valiant hero fighting on pierced through the abdomen... with the venoms crew he still had the adopted themes on board, but was taking the physical discipline to its heights. CC was completely indulging a passion and cultural tradition and furthering it to a brutal visual height. Pure opera coursing through it. I guess it depends how much you want to get on board with CC indulging it... He was still indulging his opera leanings up to the end - look at '90s Monkey Goes West - the characters all had opera facepaint going on... even the 5 Venoms masks are pure opera derived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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