Best acrobat?

[mindshock]

Pure martial arts aside, who were the absolute best when it came to acrobatics/flips. My list - 

Tier 1 (Best of the Best)
Yuen Tak (as evidenced in The Master aka 3 Evil Masters)
Hsia Ho (as evidenced in Mad Monkey Kung Fu)
Ricky Cheng - ADDED

Tier 2 (High Level)
Kim Won Jin (Scorpion King, many others)
Peter Chang (Avenging Boxer, many others but usually in bit parts where he didn't get to show off too much)
Tony Jaa - ADDED - not sure how I forgot about this guy!
Meng Yuen-Man - ADDED
Yuen Mo/Miu - ADDED (forgot about him, he doubled for Biao a bit if IIRC)

Tier 3 (Honorable Mention)
Chin Kar Lok
Yuen Biao
Yuen Wah
Scott Adkins
Kuo Chui - ADDED (he's definitely got some moves)
Austin Wai - ADDED
Li Yi Min - ADDED
Mars - ADDED (pretty underrated as an acrobat since people mostly focus on his huge stunts/bumps, but the guy could flip)


EDIT: Added criteria - Speed/Height/Power/Diversity of flips/Endurance of flips in single shots.

Edited December 13, 2023 by mindshock

[andy338]

For me Yuen Biao, Yuen Wah & Chin Kar Lok would be in the tier 1 list. I've heard it said in interviews that Yuen Wah was regarded amongst his peers as been the best and supposedly he had the highest flips. Also Tony Jaa is an amazing acrobat & the late Brad Allen would be near the top as well.

[DrNgor]

Would Chiang Sheng, Phillip Kwok and Ricky Cheng reach Tier 1?

Meng Yuan-Man and Meng Hoi would be on Tiers 1 or 2 based on Hell's Wind Staff. 

[Drunken Monk]

Some of the Venom Mob should definitely be in at least one of the tiers. They were incredible acrobats back in their heyday. Especially Kuo Chui and Chiang Sheng.

Personally, I'd rank Yuen Biao higher.

Is there a film that really highlights Yuen Wah's acrobatics where he's not actually doubling someone?

[mindshock]

1 hour ago, andy338 said:

For me Yuen Biao, Yuen Wah & Chin Kar Lok would be in the tier 1 list. I've heard it said in interviews that Yuen Wah was regarded amongst his peers as been the best and supposedly he had the highest flips. Also Tony Jaa is an amazing acrobat & the late Brad Allen would be near the top as well.

Wow, not sure how I forgot about Jaa! Just added him. 

Perhaps I should have explained the criteria I was using. Speed/Height/Power/Diversity of flips/Endurance of flips in single shots.

Using this criteria, I haven't really seen any guys that are on the level of Yuen Tak and Hsiao Ho. 

[mindshock]

52 minutes ago, Drunken Monk said:

Some of the Venom Mob should definitely be in at least one of the tiers. They were incredible acrobats back in their heyday. Especially Kuo Chui and Chiang Sheng.

Personally, I'd rank Yuen Biao higher.

Is there a film that really highlights Yuen Wah's acrobatics where he's not actually doubling someone?

Good call on Kuo Chui, forgot about him! Regarding Chiang Sheng, he seems to be a guy who simply good at absolutely everything, but I don't recall him doing anything truly jaw-dropping acrobatics-wise specifically. 

Yuen Wah's definitely busted some crazy moves (even while in his 40s). Mostly just in small parts as a bad guy in modern movies. When he was in his prime, it was mostly doubling (possibly some extra work). 

Check out this demo at 1:02

The only reason I didn't rank Wah/Biao/Lok higher is because of a lack of diversity. They always had amazing moves, but usually the same type of flips/twists/kicks. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by mindshock

[mindshock]

1 hour ago, DrNgor said:

Would Chiang Sheng, Phillip Kwok and Ricky Cheng reach Tier 1?

Meng Yuan-Man and Meng Hoi would be on Tiers 1 or 2 based on Hell's Wind Staff. 

I knew I came to the right place.

Ricky Cheng is one of the best to ever do it for sure. Tier 1. Criminally underrated. Kwok/Kuo Chui added to Tier 3. Chiang Sheng good all-arounder, but I simply can't remember him being at the level of all these other guys.

Meng Yuen-Man solid. Added to Tier 2. 

Meng Hoi was always decent, although I don't remember him being that powerful. 

You did jog my memory on another guy who doesn't get enough credit - Austin Wai. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by mindshock

[PandaPawPaw]

Adobe?

[J.J. Hayden]

I have certainly found that a lot of the Taiwanese stunt guys have top tier acrobatics. But funnily enough, I'd actually set aside my own little list of Korean martial arts actors/stuntmen who have a high level of acrobatic skill, you've already got the most obvious one in you list  (Won Jin) but here's some more Koreans that could give HK/Taiwan guys a run for their money and are worth seeing if you get the chance:

Choe Joong-hwa

Heo Seong-tae

Jeong Jin-gwan

Kim Dong-ho

Kim Doo-han

Lee Jae-gyu

Lee Seung-hoon

Oh Se-yeong

Park Choon-gil

Park Hyeon-jin

Yoo Chang-guk

Yoon Yeon-gyu

 

There are many others Koreans that can do a decent amount of acrobatics, but these are the best I've come across during my research.

Edited December 14, 2023 by J.J. Hayden

[mindshock]

4 minutes ago, J.J. Hayden said:

I have certainly found that a lot of the Taiwanese stunt guys have top tier acrobatics. But funnily enough, I'd actually set aside my own little list of Korean martial arts actors/stuntmen who have a high level of acrobatic skill, you've already got the most obvious one in you list  (Won Jin) but here's some more Koreans that could give HK/Taiwan guys a run for their money and are worth seeing if you get the chance:

Choe Joong-hwa

Heo Seong-tae

Jeong Jin-gwan

Kim Dong-ho

Kim Doo-han

Lee Jae-gyu

Lee Seong-hoon

Oh Se-yeong

Park Choon-gil

Park Hyeon-jin

Yoo Chang-guk

Yoon Yeon-gyu

 

There are many others Koreans that can do a decent amount of acrobatics, but these are the best I've come across during my research.

In all fairness Kim Won Jin should be Tier 1, I simply didn't put him there because he never did super long sequential tumbling in single shots (although he definitely could, he simply didn't as far as I recall). His diversity is off the charts though....

Any chance you can list some movies with these Korean acrobats appeared in...

[andy338]

38 minutes ago, mindshock said:

Good call on Kuo Chui, forgot about him! Regarding Chiang Sheng, he seems to be a guy who simply good at absolutely everything, but I don't recall him doing anything truly jaw-dropping acrobatics-wise specifically. 

Yuen Wah's definitely busted some crazy moves (even while in his 40s). Mostly just in small parts as a bad guy in modern movies. When he was in his prime, it was mostly doubling (possibly some extra work). 

Check out this demo at 1:02

The only reason I didn't rank Wah/Biao/Lok higher is because of a lack of diversity. They always had amazing moves, but usually the same type of flips/twists/kicks. 

I understand what you mean, it's a very difficult thing to judge as in the last 20 years or so acrobatics has progressed at an incredible rate. I rate Wah/Biao/Lok as been the best at that time but if you look at them today their gymnastic moves wouldn't be classed as technically very difficult as they mostly perform just single flips, combinations of hand springs, aerial cartwheels & B- Twists. There are trickers and parkour athletes nowadays performing standing double backs and double side flips which easily surpass anything done back then as these things weren't even considered possible. I remember been blown away by Tony Jaa's double front somersault off the tyres in Ong Bak but i've seen it done loads of times since then and much cleaner but that's not to take anything away from what he did back in 2003.

[Drunken Monk]

What about Jack Long and Li Yi Min? Absolute beats! Although, I admit, they didn't have a lot of variety to what they did.

[J.J. Hayden]

@mindshock I wonder if you've seen this brief display of his acrobatics

 

 

Here's another relevant clip, though not as impressive, it features two of those on my list, both doubling of course, but here we have Won Jin doubling for the lead actress and Park Choon-gil doubling for the lead actor.

 

 

 

As for the others, I can't think of any films off the top of my head where they might display long sequences of acrobatics, though in the case of Park Hyeon-jin, even though he doesn't get to show much on screen (even when not being a stunt double for everyone) this demo reel shows a good deal of what he can do.

 

 

 

Also, not included in my Korean list are some of the best acrobatic fighters I've ever seen: Tim Man, Anis Cheurfa and Daniel O'Neill. I you've never seen them, you MUST check them out.

Cheers

[Yihetuan]

I would add Yuen Tak as Tier 4 level. A bit stiff at times but still a decent tumbler.

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Yihetuan

[mindshock]

2 hours ago, Yihetuan said:

I would add Yuen Tak as Tier 4 level. A bit stiff at times but still a decent tumbler.

 

I have Yuen Tak in Tier 1...one of the best ever.

 

[Whoishe]

Do we include actresses (or their stuntwomen) here as well?

If yes:

- Ha Kwong-Li from The Woman Avenger
- Hilda Liu Hao-Yi from Horse Boxing Killer
Would find a few more if necessary

And there would be even more examples if we would include actresses/acrobats who participated only in one movie (like Chi Dan Dan in "Eight Strikes of a Wild Cat" or mysterious brothel girl from "Monkey Kung Fu")

Edited December 13, 2023 by Whoishe

[mindshock]

3 hours ago, Drunken Monk said:

What about Jack Long and Li Yi Min? Absolute beats! Although, I admit, they didn't have a lot of variety to what they did.

 

4 hours ago, andy338 said:

I understand what you mean, it's a very difficult thing to judge as in the last 20 years or so acrobatics has progressed at an incredible rate. I rate Wah/Biao/Lok as been the best at that time but if you look at them today their gymnastic moves wouldn't be classed as technically very difficult as they mostly perform just single flips, combinations of hand springs, aerial cartwheels & B- Twists. There are trickers and parkour athletes nowadays performing standing double backs and double side flips which easily surpass anything done back then as these things weren't even considered possible. I remember been blown away by Tony Jaa's double front somersault off the tyres in Ong Bak but i've seen it done loads of times since then and much cleaner but that's not to take anything away from what he did back in 2003.

Yeah, that's what makes discussing and ranking so fun! So many variables to account for! I added Li Yi Min, although he doesn't have that much power/height,. he does add some crazy flexibility into his acrobatics, so he definitely needs credit. Jack Long is another good all-arounder, but don't remember him doing anything truly mindblowing. 

I didn't even realize it, but I was also ranking for abilities WITHOUT mini-trampolines/car tires, etc. Just on regular ground with no assistance. Even all these crazy trickers these days can't do crisp traditional kung fu choreography, throw in crazy flips all in one shot (sky high flips no less - does anyone actually get more air than Yuen Tak or Hsiao Ho?), then some more choreography to boot, WITHOUT STOPPING.  These are the metrics I was using which I believe set Yuen Tak, Hsiao Ho and Ricky Cheng apart from everyone else. Kim Won Jin should probably be Tier 1, it's just that they didn't have him do shots like that, even though he obviously could do it all....

 

[mindshock]

3 hours ago, J.J. Hayden said:

@mindshock I wonder if you've seen this brief display of his acrobatics

 

 

Here's another relevant clip, though not as impressive, it features two of those on my list, both doubling of course, but here we have Won Jin doubling for the lead actress and Park Choon-gil doubling for the lead actor.

 

 

 

As for the others, I can't think of any films off the top of my head where they might display long sequences of acrobatics, though in the case of Park Hyeon-jin, even though he doesn't get to show much on screen (even when not being a stunt double for everyone) this demo reel shows a good deal of what he can do.

 

 

 

Also, not included in my Korean list are some of the best acrobatic fighters I've ever seen: Tim Man, Anis Cheurfa and Daniel O'Neill. I you've never seen them, you MUST check them out.

Cheers

Holy cow Park Hyeon-jin needs some STARRING ROLES! This guy is incredible (I found myself impressed by his fight choreography as much as the acrobatics!). He's like Jackie Chan 2.0....

[mindshock]

12 minutes ago, Whoishe said:

Do we include actresses (or their stuntwomen) here as well?

If yes:

- Ha Kwong-Li from The Woman Avenger
- Hilda Liu Hao-Yi from Horse Boxing Killer
Would find a few more if necessary

And there would be even more examples if we would include actresses/acrobats who participated only in one movie (like Chi Dan Dan in "Eight Strikes of a Wild Cat" or mysterious brothel girl from "Monkey Kung Fu")

Haven't seen those in forever....in most movies any of the truly jaw-dropping stuff is usually doubled by a guy in a wig (painfully obvious)....don't remember any of the ladies doing anything super crazy (unless off trampoline or in nets, etc, not flat ground). There was one Shaw Brothers actress who was really good, but I don't remember her name or even the movies...not sure if she was doubled, but if she was it wasn't obvious. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by mindshock

[mindshock]

3 hours ago, J.J. Hayden said:

@mindshock I wonder if you've seen this brief display of his acrobatics

 

 

Here's another relevant clip, though not as impressive, it features two of those on my list, both doubling of course, but here we have Won Jin doubling for the lead actress and Park Choon-gil doubling for the lead actor.

 

 

 

As for the others, I can't think of any films off the top of my head where they might display long sequences of acrobatics, though in the case of Park Hyeon-jin, even though he doesn't get to show much on screen (even when not being a stunt double for everyone) this demo reel shows a good deal of what he can do.

 

 

 

Also, not included in my Korean list are some of the best acrobatic fighters I've ever seen: Tim Man, Anis Cheurfa and Daniel O'Neill. I you've never seen them, you MUST check them out.

Cheers

It's hard to put Kim Won Jin in tier one for things he didn't do on screen (even though we all know he definitely COULD do this stuff, it's just that he didn't do sequences this long) - 
 

 

[Yihetuan]

18 minutes ago, mindshock said:

I have Yuen Tak in Tier 1...one of the best ever.

 

I don't rate him that highly. He looks a bit stiff in comparison to your Tier 1 group & he has the smallest sample size too.

[mindshock]

6 minutes ago, Yihetuan said:

I don't rate him that highly. He looks a bit stiff in comparison to your Tier 1 group & he has the smallest sample size too.

I am admittedly biased. He was one of the first big acrobats I saw performing acrobatics seamlessly within fight scenes (as opposed to one off flips/stunts which are in almost every kung fu movie). 

If I had seen Mad Monkey Kung Fu BEFORE 3 Evil Masters that would probably change my opinion. That being said he really does have the smallest sample size and its a downright travesty....wonder why he didn't do more lead roles...Hsiao Ho should have been bigger too...these are guys who can literally do it all...

[J.J. Hayden]

19 minutes ago, mindshock said:

Holy cow Park Hyeon-jin needs some STARRING ROLES! This guy is incredible (I found myself impressed by his fight choreography as much as the acrobatics!). He's like Jackie Chan 2.0....

Yes that would've been interesting, but I think he only did a few stunt roles before joining the JCST where he appeared in a few films as a henchman, but after he left and returned to Korea I don't think he's acted at all. Though he's had a great career there as an action director, I can't help but think he's been a bit wasted.

[mindshock]

Just now, J.J. Hayden said:

Yes that would've been interesting, but I think he only did a few stunt roles before joining the JCST where he appeared in a few films as a henchman, but after he left and returned to Korea I don't think he's acted at all. Though he's had a great career there as an action director, I can't help but think he's been a bit wasted.

It's kind of wild how in the US guys without even 1% of this kind of talent star in tons of action movies!

[J.J. Hayden]

6 minutes ago, mindshock said:

It's kind of wild how in the US guys without even 1% of this kind of talent star in tons of action movies!

As long as you've got big muscles, you're golden, or at least that still seems to be the mindset of it. Even the western martial arts guys that can do this never really get to show it on screen, even Scott Adkins seems to be pulled back a lot. At least Martial Club's recent success gives me a glimmer of hope for the future.