Member paimeifist Posted December 28, 2014 Member Share Posted December 28, 2014 Don't care for One Armed Swordsman? Avenging Eagle? Kid with the Golden Arm? And are we sure this is actually cut, and not just another example of unfortunate framecutting? I know some fights have pretty oversped rhythms, but it didn't strike me as worse than other framecut casualties of the genre. Are these truly wuxia? 3 great movies, (Avenging Eagle is a top 3 for me) but I never considered them Wuxia, especially Kid with the Golden Arm. I generally am not a big fan of wuxia myself, but if these three are wuxia, I may have to rethink that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted December 28, 2014 Member Share Posted December 28, 2014 They're absolutely wuxia, and it's the point I'm trying to make: there are different approaches to the genre. You can go more flamboyant, you can go more realistic. You can go heavy on action, you can make it all about plot. And yes, you can blur the line with Gongfu Pian ( which if anything, remained very much a sub-genre of wuxia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted December 28, 2014 Member Share Posted December 28, 2014 Yeah, I assumed there had to be a retarded amount of characters, backstabs, etc. to be wuxia. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted December 28, 2014 Member Share Posted December 28, 2014 Well, yeah, it's a very novelistic genre, heavily indebted to the literary works that lay its foundations, even in those films not adapted from books. I'd say the sheer density of most films play an important role: establishing the world as heavily structured and hierarchical. The jianghu. It's a genre very much concerned with notions of society and social obligation. But no, you don't have to go the "serial novel" approach. King Hu clearly shows how to make the genre work when fixed to a central location and a small cast of characters, and his work is arguably the cornerstone. With that said, I love the sprawl on the more traditional types, the feeling that there's a world that exists outside the view of the camera. Yes, it can be confusing and goofy, but it's also very fun and charming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted December 28, 2014 Member Share Posted December 28, 2014 I like some of the traditional type, and some I don't. Thanks for the info, I pretty mic thought only the films based on novels were considered wuxia. My favorite wuxia films tend to be the more focused movies that don't confuse you quite so much on the initial viewing. I have to admit, I haven't seen a King Hu film yet... O_O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted December 30, 2014 Member Share Posted December 30, 2014 Ha, I just noticed: the film in your avatar... another wuxia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted December 30, 2014 Member Share Posted December 30, 2014 Well, I just changed it yesterday I believe, lol. But if that film is a wuxia, it definitely stands among my favorites - with that said, if all these films are wuxias, it seems there is no reason for the sub-genre to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted December 30, 2014 Member Share Posted December 30, 2014 Ha, I just noticed: the film in your avatar... another wuxia! It's Human Lanterns, right ? Seems more like a horror film than a Wu Xia IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted December 30, 2014 Member Share Posted December 30, 2014 Yes sir it is GHW. I generally just consider it horror/fu. High points being Lo Liehs performance, Lo Mang in a non-venoms movie, above-average fighting, and it's just a unique film. I love CKT but he didn't stand out from what I remember. With all that said, I need to revisit it Have you seen it? It's one of my favorite Shaw movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted December 30, 2014 Member Share Posted December 30, 2014 Yes sir it is GHW. I generally just consider it horror/fu. High points being Lo Liehs performance, Lo Mang in a non-venoms movie, above-average fighting, and it's just a unique film. I love CKT but he didn't stand out from what I remember. With all that said, I need to revisit it Have you seen it? It's one of my favorite Shaw movies. No, but I just received it yesterday, along with some other IVL Shaw Bros releases. This title was a Shaw I really wanted to check out because horror is a genre I really enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted December 30, 2014 Member Share Posted December 30, 2014 You're in for a treat, you'll have to let me know what you think. PM me what else you got! (To avoid derailing the thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted December 30, 2014 Member Share Posted December 30, 2014 You're in for a treat, you'll have to let me know what you think. PM me what else you got! (To avoid derailing the thread) There's still the "Best SB you've seen" topic. And now, let us go back to our original topic: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted December 31, 2014 Member Share Posted December 31, 2014 It seems there is no reason for the sub-genre to exist. I disagree. There are quantitative differences between Wuxia, Bashers and Shapes in both form and narrative emphasis. If Human Lanterns hinged on Lau Wing mastering some special form or technique to get revenge, it would definitely start edging towards the latter, depending on what sort of emphasis was placed on such a plot point. As it is, the film is definitely of a piece with Sun Chung's 7 other wuxia pians, with its emphasis on a small group of heroes plunged into a gruesome conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted December 31, 2014 Member Share Posted December 31, 2014 Totally agree with you Cold Bishop that movies like Human Lanterns, Avenging Eagle and 5 Element Ninjas are wuxia. Sometimes I'm unclear whether it's a wuxia or not. What about Fight for Survival and What Price Honesty? Can these be pinned down to wuxia or kung fu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted December 31, 2014 Member Share Posted December 31, 2014 I disagree. There are quantitative differences between Wuxia, Bashers and Shapes in both form and narrative emphasis. If Human Lanterns hinged on Lau Wing mastering some special form or technique to get revenge, it would definitely start edging towards the latter, depending on what sort of emphasis was placed on such a plot point. As it is, the film is definitely of a piece with Sun Chung's 8 other wuxia pians, with its emphasis on a small group of heroes plunged into a gruesome conspiracy. Well this has been interesting. Now I'll have fun categorizing movies I've seen. Turns out, I really enjoy wuxia, just not so much Chor Yuen! I would say I particularly like Sun Chungs wuxia films ( I love Avenging Eagle, Human Lanterns, Rendezvous, and Proud Youth). But I am now sure there are a bunch of Chang Cheh films that I should consider wuxia that I hadn't before.. (Most venoms films, as any easy example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted December 31, 2014 Member Share Posted December 31, 2014 and 5 Element Ninjas are wuxia.I would actually disagree here, although it brings up the issue with those post-Venom films: they meld so many elements from Shapes, Wuxia and Opera, not to mention rehashed plots from earlier Chang films of all different stripes, that classification gets muddled. Some like Life Gamble, Ode to Gallantry and the Brave Archer series are clearly wuxia on strength of their source material. Others like Invincible Shaolin and Two Champions of Shaolin are definitely shapes due to their subject matter. Others are not so simple and there is admittedly room to quibble. While Five Elements Ninjas contains fantastical wuxia elements, the focus is still almost entirely on the shapes model of training and winning. Compare that to Duel to the Death which deals with the same material but is unambiguously a wuxia pian. Ditto Shaolin Kung-Fu Mystagogue which while fantastical is still clearly a Shaolin Pedagogy film. I would classify What Price Honesty wuxia as it seems to fit into the mold of what I call the "Cruel Wuxia Pian" (a term I swiped from the '60s samurai sub-genre): dark, bleak and morbid dramas made by the likes of Sun Chung, Hua Shan, Kuei Chih-Hung and the few New Wave wuxias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted December 31, 2014 Member Share Posted December 31, 2014 I'm realizing now that there's a lot that are tough to classify. I usually just go with my gut since I haven't read a description of a what a wuxia is in about 20 years. 5EN I say is a wuxia because it is almost all indoor sets, the pretty boy costumes, and it takes place in a fantasy world. But it's very debatable. What Price Honesty is an odd one because it not a fantasy movie. I could go either way on this one but I lean towards wuxia. If Mystagogue is not a wuxia then Fight for Survival is definitely not a wuxia. I didn't think it was, but Fight for Survival is so damn weird I thought I'd run it by you. I haven't seen Mystagogue in awhile. I think I got a widescreen version in one of those multipacks so I plan to revisit it, but I remember thinking it was a bit more of a wuxia than a kung fu movie. 14 Amazons- never seen it:tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted December 31, 2014 Member Share Posted December 31, 2014 I disagree. There are quantitative differences between Wuxia, Bashers and Shapes in both form and narrative emphasis. If Human Lanterns hinged on Lau Wing mastering some special form or technique to get revenge, it would definitely start edging towards the latter, depending on what sort of emphasis was placed on such a plot point. As it is, the film is definitely of a piece with Sun Chung's 7 other wuxia pians, with its emphasis on a small group of heroes plunged into a gruesome conspiracy. I had some trouble with the terms "bashers" and "shapes" at first - now I kinda got it, a basher is all about ass-kicking (like a Hwang Jang Lee film) when a "shapes" movie has over the top technique like the Shaking Eagle Fist from 18 Fatal Strikes. Wuxias for me are more grounded period pieces, films that have deep plots, some battles and are set in a medieval environment - hell, Return Of The One-Armed Swordsman is (IMO) a wuxia just like Tsui Hark's Detective Dee movies or Curse Of The Golden Flower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member GOLDEN DRAGON YIN-YANG Posted January 13, 2015 Member Share Posted January 13, 2015 Sorry please move to Shaw Brothers. A Shaw Brothers film. Does it have a different title. Its not 14 Amazons, is it? Anyone seen this? GD Y-Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted January 13, 2015 Member Share Posted January 13, 2015 Looking at the picture, I see "The 14 Amazons" written in the middle and the cast looks about the same. But it's probably me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator thekfc Posted January 13, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yep. the 14 Amazons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member GOLDEN DRAGON YIN-YANG Posted January 13, 2015 Member Share Posted January 13, 2015 Thanks that's what I thought. GD Y-Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator thekfc Posted January 13, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2015 GD Y-Y, if you haven't seen it yet - it is a great movie. It is base on the female warriors of the Yang Family. There have been a bunch of movies, TV series, plays, operas on the Yang family. More female based: The 14 Amazons Legendary Amazons - I think I am one of the few who enjoyed this movie. The Heroine of the Yangs Legendary Fighter: Yang’s Heroine Young’s Female Warriors A Courageous Clan: Mu Kuei-ying The Heroine Mu Guiying Mu Guiying Takes Command More male based: 8 Diagram Pole fighter The Eight Diagram Cudgel Fighter Saving General Yang Generals of the Yang Family (1983/1991) Jagged Generals of the Yang Family The Yang’s Saga Heroic Legend of the Yang Family The Great General Yang’s Fourth Son The Fire Commander Warriors of the Yang Clan The Young Warriors There are a few more movies & TV series (as well as plays & operas) not mentioned. There are a few threads on the movie in here. Here is one: http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3040 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShawAngela Posted January 13, 2015 Member Share Posted January 13, 2015 Thanks for the list, there are a few titles I wasn't aware of in the second list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted January 13, 2015 Administrator Share Posted January 13, 2015 Thanks that's what I thought. GD Y-Y It's a great movie bro, you'll dig it. GD Y-Y, if you haven't seen it yet - it is a great movie. It is base on the female warriors of the Yang Family. There have been a bunch of movies, TV series, plays, operas on the Yang family. More female based: The 14 Amazons Legendary Amazons - I think I am one of the few who enjoyed this movie. The Heroine of the Yangs Legendary Fighter: Yang’s Heroine Young’s Female Warriors A Courageous Clan: Mu Kuei-ying The Heroine Mu Guiying Mu Guiying Takes Command More male based: 8 Diagram Pole fighter The Eight Diagram Cudgel Fighter Saving General Yang Generals of the Yang Family (1883/1991) Jagged Generals of the Yang Family The Yang’s Saga Heroic Legend of the Yang Family The Great General Yang’s Fourth Son The Fire Commander Warriors of the Yang Clan The Young Warriors There are a few more movies & TV series (as well as plays & operas) not mentioned. There are a few threads on the movie in here. Here is one: http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3040 Wow, thanks for the informative post thekfc! You should also post this in the thread you provided the link too. It would be helpful for people searching for info on 14 AMAZONS, and easier to find than in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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